Why do we get bored with things we initially enjoy ?

[sarabhanga]

I find this very difficult to understand.

Namaste Ganeshprasad,

“I can describe to you the taste of mango, but no amount of description will give you the satisfaction until you taste it your self.”

By definition advaita means there is no second, so I ask whose need is there to be realized?

It is the apparent need of every apparently divided jIva to realize the absolute unity that has apparently been lost.

There is no one else but eko and the eko is never deluded so whose seeking the sat?

sAti (nAra) is always seeking the sat (shiva), but the mAyA of prajApati (nArAyaNa) denies the possibility of any such communion. And only bhairava, the kapAlin, knows the way to ultimate salvation.

advaitam is not the cause of creation, but its full realization is the cause of true enlightenment and ultimate bliss.

[sarabhanga]

Namaste Ganeshprasad,

sarve vayam (“all of us”) is the advaita puruSa of nara, the paramAtmA that is sadAshiva, which is sat. And only sat is avinAsI (“imperishable”). And the sharIrI (“embodied soul”) is truly immeasurable and eternal.

The seers of truth, having observed both sat and asat, have concluded that only sat is eternal and that asat cannot endure.

The advaita puruSa is aja and amRta and ahantva.

And the AtmA that appears to reside in the various bodies of nAra is in truth only the one unborn and immortal, never divided, never changing, never ending corpus of nara.

[sarabhanga]

The one unborn, immortal, never divided, never changing, never ending corpus of nara.

liṅgāṣṭakam


brahmamurārisurārcitaliṅgaṁ nirmalabhāsitaśobhitaliṅgam |
janmajaduḥkhavināśakaliṅgaṁ tatpraṇamāmi sadāśivaliṅgam || 1 ||

devamunipravarārcitaliṅgaṁ kāmadahaṁkaruṇākaraliṅgam |
rāvaṇadarpavināśanaliṅgaṁ tatpraṇamāmi sadāśivaliṅgam || 2 ||

sarvasugandhisulepitaliṅgaṁ buddhivivardhanakāraṇaliṅgam |
siddhasurāsuravanditaliṅgaṁ tatpraṇamāmi sadāśivaliṅgam || 3 ||

kanakamahāmaṇibhūṣitaliṅgaṁ phanipativeṣṭitaśobhitaliṅgam |
dakṣasuyajñavināśanaliṅgaṁ tatpraṇamāmi sadāśivaliṅgam || 4 ||

kuṅkumacandanalepitaliṅgaṁ paṅkajahārasuśobhitaliṅgam |
sañcitapāpavināśanaliṅgaṁ tatpraṇamāmi sadāśivaliṅgam || 5 ||

devagaṇārcitasevitaliṅgaṁ bhāvairbhaktibhirevacaliṅgam |
dinakarakoṭiprabhākaraliṅgaṁ tatpraṇamāmi sadāśivaliṅgam || 6 ||

aṣṭadalopariveṣṭitaliṅgaṁ sarvasamudbhavakāraṇaliṅgam |
aṣṭadaridravināśitaliṅgaṁ tatpraṇamāmi sadāśivaliṅgam || 7 ||

suragurusuravarapūjitaliṅgaṁ suravanapuṣpasadārcitaliṅgam |
parātparaṁparamātmakaliṅgaṁ tatpraṇamāmi sadāśivaliṅgam || 8 ||


liṅgāṣṭakamidaṁ puṇyaṁ yaḥ paṭhet śivasannidhau |
śivalokamavāpnoti śivena saha modate ||

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Sarabhanga ji And Atanu ji and all


Both of you have given me compelling arguments on advaita and I thank you all for that and to bear with me.

I have given due respect to all Vedic concepts that do exist in our dharma and I shell continue to do so, but at the end of the day all concepts disappear when true experienced is had, and as you remind me the taste is in pudding, I endavour to continue in my journey to reach that following Dharma.


liṅgāṣṭakamidaṁ puṇyaṁ yaḥ paṭhet śivasannidhau |
śivalokamavāpnoti śivena saha modate ||


Jai Shree Krishna

[Bob G]

Hello Ganeshprasad,


"If individual soul has a beginning and end then there is no question of carrying on. Krishna here is describing the state of Atma that resides in this body, and says in no uncertain terms, that it is eternal, imperishable"

In the context of Param-atman there is no beginning or ending...many created souls but only one Param-atman. Yes?

Om

[atanu]

Pranam Sarabhanga ji And Atanu ji and all
---
I have given due respect to all Vedic concepts that do exist in our dharma and I shell continue to do so, but at the end of the day all concepts disappear when true experienced is had, and as you remind me the taste is in pudding, I endavour to continue in my journey to reach that following Dharma.

liṅgāṣṭakamidaṁ puṇyaṁ yaḥ paṭhet śivasannidhau |
śivalokamavāpnoti śivena saha modate ||

Jai Shree Krishna

Pranam Ganeshprasad Ji,

Nicely said. Lord is Advaita -- no school denies that. And all schools agree that Atman must be known. That is a good common goal of sanatana dharma.

I wish to point out three things.

There was never a time when I, you, or these kings did not exist; nor shall we ever cease to exist in the future. (2.12)

Because you have said that both Param Atman and Jiva Atman are immortal, let us ponder that what tag attaches to this immortal Jiva Atman as it roams from body to body. What is its name, what is its form and how does it differ from Param Atman in terms of these tags?

I am not forcing an answer but requesting contemplation only.

I know you will specify a few tags, but I will request you to reconsider whether those tags are immortal or not. While pondering, we may keep in mind that the tags of name and form accompany us in Waking and in Dreaming only. In Deep Sleep, the Atman remains alone without the tags.

Second. When Lord speaks of Yogis who see Lord (Self) in oneself and oneself in Lord (Self), He is speaking of a level. When He tells Arjuna that I and you have had many births, He is speaking at another level. And this business of birth is negated with the verse "Those know me truly who know me as unborn mahesvara."

Third, Atman, whether Param or Jiva, is not divisible. So, what differentiates Param and Jiva Atman must be a few tags made up of Gunas. And we know from Shruti that these Tags are ever chageable and made of mind material (thoughts).

The whole exercise, as per Advaita Gurus, is to brush aside these Guna tags, and know that which is never untrue and which is NOT TWO.

Difficult task indeed.


Thanks. Regards.

Om Namah Shivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Bob G

Hello Ganeshprasad,


"If individual soul has a beginning and end then there is no question of carrying on. Krishna here is describing the state of Atma that resides in this body, and says in no uncertain terms, that it is eternal, imperishable"

In the context of Param-atman there is no beginning or ending...many created souls but only one Param-atman. Yes?

Om

Yes Parmatma is one that permeates the whole creation has no beginning or end.

avibhaktam ca bhutesu
vibhaktam iva ca sthitam
bhuta-bhartr ca taj jneyam
grasisnu prabhavisnu ca

Although the Supersoul appears to be divided, He is never divided. He is situated as one. Although He is the maintainer of every living entity, it is to be understood that He devours and develops all. (13.07)

Query is what is the position of jiva in relation to Parmatma ?

Are we eternal being ? Here is what Krishna says

There are two entities in this world: the perishable and the imperishable. (The bodies of) all beings are perishable, and the Atma is imperishable. (15.16)

There is another supreme spirit called Ishvara or Paramaatma, the indestructible Lord who pervades the three worlds and sustains them. (15.17)

I am beyond the perishable body, and higher than the imperishable Atma; therefore, I am known in this world and in the Vedas as Purushottama. (15.18)

The wise one, who truly knows Me as the Purushottama, knows everything and worships (or surrenders unto) Me wholeheartedly, O Arjuna. (See also 7.14, 14.26, and 18.66) (15.19)

Jai Shree Krishna

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Atanu ji

Pranam Ganeshprasad Ji,

Nicely said. Lord is Advaita -- no school denies that. And all schools agree that Atman must be known. That is a good common goal of sanatana dharma.

Yes

I wish to point out three things.

There was never a time when I, you, or these kings did not exist; nor shall we ever cease to exist in the future. (2.12)

Because you have said that both Param Atman and Jiva Atman are immortal, let us ponder that what tag attaches to this immortal Jiva Atman as it roams from body to body. What is its name, what is its form and how does it differ from Param Atman in terms of these tags?

So far so good.

I am not forcing an answer but requesting contemplation only.

This is the true sprit of Sanatan Dharma , there is no compulsion.

I know you will specify a few tags, but I will request you to reconsider whether those tags are immortal or not. While pondering, we may keep in mind that the tags of name and form accompany us in Waking and in Dreaming only. In Deep Sleep, the Atman remains alone without the tags.

Agreed.

Second. When Lord speaks of Yogis who see Lord (Self) in oneself and oneself in Lord (Self), He is speaking of a level. When He tells Arjuna that I and you have had many births, He is speaking at another level. And this business of birth is negated with the verse "Those know me truly who know me as unborn mahesvara."

Agreed but he says this also

ajo 'pi sann avyayatma
bhutanam isvaro 'pi san
prakrtim svam adhisthaya
sambhavamy atma-mayaya

Though I am eternal, imperishable, and the Lord of all beings; yet I (voluntarily) manifest by controlling My own material nature using My Yoga-Maya. (See also 10.14) (4.06)

Third, Atman, whether Param or Jiva, is not divisible. So, what differentiates Param and Jiva Atman must be a few tags made up of Gunas. And we know from Shruti that these Tags are ever chageable and made of mind material (thoughts).
The whole exercise, as per Advaita Gurus, is to brush aside these Guna tags, and know that which is never untrue and which is NOT TWO.

Difficult task indeed.

Although we may understand this a bit differently or may be not, you ask what differntiate jiva and Param and my answer is very simple. Param is never deluded but I am. When tags disappears truth is known.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Bob G]

Hello Ganeshprasad,

To me your quote more or less answers your query, as in:

"Query is what is the position of jiva in relation to Parmatma?"
Paramatman or "He devours and develops all. (13.07)". (in a manner of speaking)

Thus in my pov Paramatman is not limited to the golden soul body, divine forms, cosmic time and space, or the very highest of heavens - which are related to the limits of existence and also the final boundaries that individual souls can not cross. (which includes the soul bodies of the Gods) Thus Paramatman meets Paramatman when that boundary is crossed via leaving any and all types of soul body-identification behind, although Paramatman never really left or went anywhere; and only that is the complete satisfaction and happiness. (which is not found in even the highest heaven)

Om

[atanu]

Hello Ganeshprasad,
---
"Query is what is the position of jiva in relation to Parmatma?"
Paramatman or "He devours and develops all. (13.07)". (in a manner of speaking)
-
Om

Pranam Bob,

But Upanishads say: He neither devours nor is eaten.

Om