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Thread: beginner and expert

  1. #1

    beginner and expert


    If your mind is empty, it is always ready for anything;
    it is open to everything. In the beginner's mind there are
    many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few.


    Shunryu Suzuki-Roshi

  2. #2
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    Re: beginner and expert

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob G View Post
    If your mind is empty, it is always ready for anything;
    it is open to everything. In the beginner's mind there are
    many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few.

    Shunryu Suzuki-Roshi

    Namaste BobG,
    Thought this went with the theme above:

    Buddha said, "There's nothing I cannot debate, but I have no suggestions for a topic".

    The Brahmin said "How can we debate if we do not have a topic?"

    Buddha replied, "As long as there is something, that something can be refuted. I have nothing and therefore you cannot defeat me. You, on the other hand, have so many things in your head and stomach it will be easy to defeat you."
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #3

    Re: beginner and expert

    Hello Yajvan,

    Yes, one might say in a way that a "Buddha" has gone full circle.

    Thanks the additional quote.

    Om

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    Re: beginner and expert

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob G View Post
    Hello Yajvan,

    Yes, one might say in a way that a "Buddha" has gone full circle.

    Thanks the additional quote.

    Om
    Namaste,

    Still only one will see that Buddha has gone full circle.

    Om
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  5. #5

    Re: beginner and expert

    I am sorry to say this, but usually these so-called talks between Buddha and Brahmin are made to look rather one-sided, that is, making the Brahmin look like a clown or a fanatic with little understanding aside from some orthodox learning. It's done with an ulterior motive, usually with the motive of equating the Brahmin with Hinduism (and therefore superstitious, silly, what else not), and the path of the Buddha as something superior to this.

    Even in this so-called talk, there's no logic in Buddha's answer. Budhha says, "As long as there is something, that something can be refuted. I have nothing and therefore you cannot defeat me." The purpose of a debate is not victory or defeat, but an earnest desire to find the truth. So going by Buddha's reasoning, 'nothingness' is important for the Buddha not because it's the truth, but because one cannot defeat it! So the avoidance of defeat seems more important than an inquiry into truth, it would appear. It's similar to a schoolboy saying, "As long as I write the test, there's a possibility of failure. I am not gonna write the test, so I am never gonna fail."

    Intellectual sophistry at best!

  6. #6

    Re: beginner and expert

    Hello Suresh,

    I've read some of the Buddhist texts that refer to talks between the historic Buddha and Brahmins, and I agree with you that they seem or are biased. Also, I have posted at Buddhist sites stating that the historic Buddha apparently never came across or had a meetings with a Satguru...thus his refutation talks were apparently only with unrealized and thus the more or less junior Brahmins, which of course does not fully reflect the depth and wisdom of the Self-realized ones in Hinduism. I also made statements saying that Satgurus (then and now) as far as I know do not seek out junior Buddhists with the idea or motive of nailing them down with refutation talks!

    As for the "something" quote, it makes sense to me in the context of "no-thing". Thus a something so to speak has to have support of something else, whereas no-thing does not require support of something else - which could be refuted or have it legs knocked out from under it in one way or another. (using pros or cons)

    Further pov, no-thing is not nothing although imo the ideas often get mixed up! Another thing that gets mixed up is that "a Buddha" is also a term for enlightenment, whereas the term "the Buddha" normally refers to the historic Buddha who reached whatever degree of enlightenment that he reached.

    Om
    Last edited by Bob G; 12 February 2008 at 08:11 AM.

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