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Thread: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

  1. #31

    Re: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
    Hello there, it is quite amazing that in this age and world people write things like this. This is nothing but male chauvinism. We can find its roots in all religions and conveniently exploited by the male population.

    Though there are many stories in the purANas( and the one in B.Upanishad) that apparently teach such a doctrine, their true purport is very different. purANas are not meant to be read like story books at bedtime.

    In all shAstras, a male personality refers to the yogi(ni)/sAdhaka. His consort symbolically refers to either the process of yoga, siddhi or certain positive/negative tendencies of the mind/body.


    It is only with this meaning that the male domination is emphasised, as the Yogi always needs to be in control his Yoga or siddhis. So the shAstras say that if your wife does not obey you then you can beat her. It means when your mastery over your practice slips away use force and will power to regain the mastery.

    But these stories and other smritis have been frequently used to support a whole range of ungodly ideas such as chauvinism and racism. People all over the world made the same mistake. There are still people who look into their scriptural books to know if abusing the wife is allowed or not! If the scripture allows them they do not think twice!!
    Very important thing you've stated.

  2. #32
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    Re: Response...

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumar_Das View Post
    Prabhupad an unorthodox Brahmin?! LOL You've got to be kidding me!
    This man was anything but orthodox.
    Please read my post again, here it is to save you the trouble,

    As to Swami Prabhupada an Orthodox Brahmin ! that could not be far from truth,

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  3. #33

    Re: Response...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    Pranam



    Please read my post again, here it is to save you the trouble,

    As to Swami Prabhupada an Orthodox Brahmin ! that could not be far from truth,

    Jai Shree Krishna
    I wasn't responding to your post. But because the person you quoted editted their post. It was their quote that I was responding to.

    Sorry for the confusion.

  4. #34

    Re: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

    I want you to check out "Preachings of ISKCON " on Silence Of Soul. To view it, please click this link:
    http://silenceofsoul.com/index.php?topic=6.0

  5. #35

    Re: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

    To be honest, I wouldn't introduce anyone to Prabupada's teaching; that'll give them a negative view of Hinduism. He not only says these things about women but uses the word 'rascal' even while referring to spiritual giants like Vivekananda and Ramakrishna and Aurobindo! He's the Fred Phelps of Hinduism. His followers are no better.

  6. #36
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    Re: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

    Hanuman, Prabhupada may be aggressive, but to break into the west like he did he had to be. And I think ISKCON should move away from this, since it's not necessary anymore. ISKCON is afraid to move forward.

    What you mention is nothing but a small part of what Prabhupada says.

    Some of the quotes on the post before yours are from the scriptures... So the Vedas are misogynistic then?

    But then we have Sudarshan's post #11 that already gives a nice explanation.

    If you consider such an atrocious act to speak of man in the path of dharma like this I think you shouldn't be name calling Prabhupada considering all he has done.

    I'm here because of Prabhupada and because of the philosophy (that amazed me) he and his disciples brought me.

  7. #37

    Re: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenrisbane View Post
    Yayvan, I was about to translate from my Swedish copy of the Gita, but fortunately Google led me to an English version on the Internet.

    Source: http://www.asitis.com/1/40.html

    Originally Posted by "The Bhagavad Gita as it is



    Chapter 1. Observing the Armies on the Battlefield of Kuruksetra
    TEXT 40



    adharmabhibhavat krsna
    pradusyanti kula-striyah
    strisu dustasu varsneya
    jayate varna-sankarah
    SYNONYMS




    adharma--irreligion; abhibhavat--having become predominant; krsna--O Krsna; pradusyanti--become polluted; kula-striyah--family ladies; strisu--of the womanhood; dustasu--being so polluted; varsneya--O descendant of Vrsni; jayate--it so becomes; varna-sankarah--unwanted progeny.
    TRANSLATION






    When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Krsna, the women of the family become corrupt, and from the degradation of womanhood, O descendant of Vrsni, comes unwanted progeny.
    PURPORT



    Good population in human society is the basic principle for peace, prosperity and spiritual progress in life. The varnasrama religion's principles were so designed that the good population would prevail in society for the general spiritual progress of state and community. Such population depends on the chastity and faithfulness of its womanhood. As children are very prone to be misled, women are similarly very prone to degradation. Therefore, both children and women require protection by the elder members of the family. By being engaged in various religious practices, women will not be misled into adultery. According to Canakya Pandita, women are generally not very intelligent and therefore not trustworthy. So, the different family traditions of religious activities should always engage them, and thus their chastity and devotion will give birth to a good population eligible for participating in the varnasrama system. On the failure of such varnasrama-dharma, naturally the women become free to act and mix with men, and thus adultery is indulged in at the risk of unwanted population. Irresponsible men also provoke adultery in society, and thus unwanted children flood the human race at the risk of war and pestilence.



    My boldface.

    While I agree that adultery is morally wrong, I disagree with the general tone of the purport and the message Prabhupada conveys between the lines here. So women are unintelligent and untrustworthy creatures, are they? Surely, in this day and age, we have realized that women are fully capable of taking care of themselves and have mental faculties on par with those of men? The response might be that people irrespective of gender behave irresponsibly without any moral foundation, and that might be true. However, that does not justify the way women are singled out by Prabhupada. While he mentions irresponsible men, the way that is presented is more in the form of a footnote than the brisk warning for "unintelligent" women.

    The second boldface is what I find to be the worst though. The way he stresses that women be engaged in traditional religious activities and be prohibited from freely mixing with men feels like a codified manual for domestic abuse.

    Om shanti.
    Muslim: Mashallah! Allah says in the Holy Narook, asking females to lower their gaze and cover themselves up.

    Because its proven by science that women generally are more affected by religion in being decent.

    Me: lol

    ---

    As for the verse you quoted

    Chapter 1 Verse 40

    When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Krsna, the women of the family become corrupt, and from the degradation of womanhood, O descendant of Vrsni, comes unwanted progeny.
    Do you think the Supreme Being, who created the entire universe is particularly interested in women covering themselves up and acting proper?

    The verses in the Bhagavad Gita here is Arjuna speaking to Krishna. Not Krishna(the Supreme Being) telling Arjuna. Unlike the silly deity of the Quran.

    The Supreme Being is well aware of the nature of humans.

    2. Men seek sex more avidly.

    "Men want sex more often than women at the start of a relationship, in the middle of it, and after many years of it," Baumeister concludes after reviewing several surveys of men and women. This isn't just true of heterosexuals, he reports: gay men also have higher frequency of sex than lesbians at all stages of the relationship. Men also say they want more sex partners in their lifetime, and are more interested in casual sex.
    Men are more likely to seek sex even when it is frowned upon or even outlawed:
    • About two-thirds say they masturbate, even though about half also say they feel guilty about it, Laumann says. By contrast, about 40% of women say they masturbate, and the frequency of masturbation is smaller among women.
    • Prostitution is still mostly a phenomenon of men seeking sex with women, rather than the other way around.
    • Nuns do a better job of fulfilling their vows of chastity than priests. Baumeister cites a survey of several hundred clergy by Sheila Murphy in which 62% of priests admitted to sexual activity, compared to 49% of nuns. The men reported more partners on average than the women.
    http://www.webmd.com/sex/features/se...-women-compare

    4. Women's sex drives are more influenced by social and cultural factors.

    In his review, Baumeister found studies showing many ways in which women's sexual attitudes, practices and desires were more influenced by their environment than men:
    • Women's attitudes towards (and willingness to perform) various sexual practices are more likely than men's to change over time.
    • Women who regularly attend church are less likely to have permissive attitudes about sex. Men do not show this connection between church attendance and sex attitudes.
    • Women are more influenced by the attitudes of their peer group in their decisions about sex.
    • Women with higher education levels were more likely to have performed a wider variety of sexual practices (such as oral sex); education made less of a difference with men.
    • Women were more likely than men to show inconsistency between their expressed values about sexual activities such as premarital sex and their actual behavior.
    http://www.webmd.com/sex/features/se...compare?page=2

    In the Quran, Allah makes it clear that Christian concept of God (Trinity) is sheer heresy and therefore sin(shirk). It whines about this and insists on its absurdity. Muslims don't consider Christianity to be Monotheistic because of Jesus being the Son of God.

    Quran 19:88-93
    They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!".Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!.At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin,That they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious.For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to (Allah) Most Gracious as a servant.

    lol

    Also Allah apparently sees religion as only something that it approves of and is all about itself accurately.

    In the verse quoted from Bhagavad Gita, Arjuna draws a correlation between religiousity(not theology/whether "right God" or false multiple Gods etc) and sexuality of females.

    This(verse quoted from the Bhagavad Gita) is exactly the sort of thing I'd expect the Supreme Being would know of and His scriptures would give information about.

    regarding that verse

    • It singles females out in particular, it deliberately leaves males out
    • the usage of the terms are precise
    • the whole verse strings accordingly in specific sequence
    irreligious, prominence, "women of the family", corruption, degradation(of womanhood), progeny

    very neutral, yet highly sophisticated

    when you single this verse out and analyze this on its own its backed up by scientific experiments

    its prestigious, enlightening, has knowledge about everything (f.e religion and human behaviour)

    a holy scripture may be strong in the way it exerts itself like Quran for example, but if in terms of its quality its lacking then whats the point?

    more important than the tone of speech is its content

    some people require a harsh tone to listen, others who are interested genuinely only for knowledge care for, thoroughly absorb and reflect on the content alone

    anthropomorphism isn't just based upon imagery but also in terms of the speech. whats the point of having a non-incarnation, imageless "God" when its holy book sounds like an angry and upset man and that too from an ancient era?

    Jai Hind! Jai Bharat!

  8. #38
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    Re: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

    Please refer to item #10 in the following post,

    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=6417
    Last edited by Believer; 19 November 2010 at 05:27 AM.

  9. #39

    Re: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

    We should be fair to the context of Srila Prabhupada's teachings and not interpret from shallow criticisms. Any culture which degenerates to such point where even girl-children imitate low-morality as some form of liberty is the greatest disrespecter of women. We sometimes forget restraint and modesty are something to empower and respect. Srila Prabhupada brought the kind of liberation that greatest gift and role of a woman is to be a chaste wife and mother and supporter of the spiritual practices of the entire community. It is the world which disrespects the natural role and glory of woman, not Srila Prabhupada.

    Women are the paradigm of a nation's downfall just as holy women are the foundation of a nation's elevation. When men and women treat each other as brothers and sisters it promotes only harmony and this is the actual teaching of Srila Prabhupada. But as Believerji pointed out, sometimes people are too busy doing sant nindya and sampraday bashing and exposing their own anti-Hindu biases.

    A study which shows priests and nuns have over 50% failure to keep vows of celibacy is no example of anything. BOTH should hang their heads equally in shame. What a joke that western female "celibates" fail "slightly" less and are therefore held out to be example of "higher" morality.


    One should understand the youth culture Srila Prabhupada found. It was utterly without guidance, all social restraint had broken down. Drugs, especially LSD were commonly used. How can anyone say He hated women when He encouraged bramacharya and proper marriage; promoted spirituality oriented child-raising and tried to lift entire families out of degrading circumstances of group sex, prostitution, drug culture and so forth. The truth is Srila Prabhupada loved the young people and made them His own children. Srila Prabhupada gave them His own rich heritage of braminical culture which He loved so much.


  10. #40
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    Smile Re: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

    In Kali Yuga when the youth are being driven by gross materialism, commercialism etc. Bhakthivedanta Swami had given his followers Harinama Sangeerthanam, which should redeem them and make them better. That he calls other Hindu sects and leaders names, just shows that he never was able to overcome Maya!

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