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Thread: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

  1. #11
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    Re: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenrisbane View Post
    Yayvan, I was about to translate from my Swedish copy of the Gita, but fortunately Google led me to an English version on the Internet.

    Source: http://www.asitis.com/1/40.html



    My boldface.

    While I agree that adultery is morally wrong, I disagree with the general tone of the purport and the message Prabhupada conveys between the lines here. So women are unintelligent and untrustworthy creatures, are they? Surely, in this day and age, we have realized that women are fully capable of taking care of themselves and have mental faculties on par with those of men? The response might be that people irrespective of gender behave irresponsibly without any moral foundation, and that might be true. However, that does not justify the way women are singled out by Prabhupada. While he mentions irresponsible men, the way that is presented is more in the form of a footnote than the brisk warning for "unintelligent" women.

    The second boldface is what I find to be the worst though. The way he stresses that women be engaged in traditional religious activities and be prohibited from freely mixing with men feels like a codified manual for domestic abuse.

    Om shanti.
    Hello there, it is quite amazing that in this age and world people write things like this. This is nothing but male chauvinism. We can find its roots in all religions and conveniently exploited by the male population.

    Though there are many stories in the purANas( and the one in B.Upanishad) that apparently teach such a doctrine, their true purport is very different. purANas are not meant to be read like story books at bedtime.

    In all shAstras, a male personality refers to the yogi(ni)/sAdhaka. His consort symbolically refers to either the process of yoga, siddhi or certain positive/negative tendencies of the mind/body.

    It is only with this meaning that the male domination is emphasised, as the Yogi always needs to be in control his Yoga or siddhis. So the shAstras say that if your wife does not obey you then you can beat her. It means when your mastery over your practice slips away use force and will power to regain the mastery.

    But these stories and other smritis have been frequently used to support a whole range of ungodly ideas such as chauvinism and racism. People all over the world made the same mistake. There are still people who look into their scriptural books to know if abusing the wife is allowed or not! If the scripture allows them they do not think twice!!
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

  2. #12
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    Re: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

    Is there anything that can be pointed to in scripture that contradicts this? Is there any scripture that is more egalitarian in nature?
    "My spiritual father is Swami Vivekananda" Canibus

  3. #13
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    Re: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

    Now, what is the reason for men to want to talk and be with women more and more? The reason is Lust, although it might not seem like that when we are attracted to women, but the real reason(subtle reason) is Lust. The lust for a beautiful face, or great body...

    Men is not affected by this lust as much as women is, because it is women who has to bear the pregnancy. In the world of men, women is treated as an object of attraction, lust. The freedom which she possess is physical freedom, but mind is still a slave. I have seen the so called "Free" "High Class" women friends, I know how free they are.

    But to say that women should not work, nor mix with men at all is wrong. Because women should be free to do whatever they want to, but they should not adopt the western lifestyle or way of living. Because if you live western lifestyle the morality will be less and women will generally become characterless.

    What we need is free, working women, but following Oriental(Indian) culture.

  4. #14

    Talking Re: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

    Quote: When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Krsna, the women of the family become corrupt, and from the degradation of womanhood, O descendant of Vrsni, comes unwanted progeny

    Who brings the irreligion into the family in the first place?

    Is it a man, who is the head of the family?
    Do we live in patriarchal society?
    Did we live in patriarchal soicety in the past?
    Will we in the future?

    If As to the last 4 Qs are 'yes' then answer to the first question is 'man'.
    Woman becomes corrupt due to the already corrupted activities of the man. Therefore she is not corrupted, she is merely serving a man. She has done so in the past, she is doing so today and will continue in the future.
    But in the literatures she will always be presented as the bad one, the nonintelegent, the weak one, end who knows what else. Some even say, that woman is less than a cow.
    Last edited by satay; 01 November 2008 at 08:15 PM.

  5. #15

    Re: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

    10th Kanto SB: Re: discussion between Vasudeva and Kamsa resulted in Vasudeva not believing Kamsa his word. Prabuphada here states: "one who cannot control the senses cannot be steady in his determination."
    Prabhupada goes on to say: The great politician, Canakya Pandit, said, "Never put your trust in diplomat or in a woman."

    What is the need for this to be input here if text is supposed to describe Vasudevas doubts towards Kamsa? Kamsa is no diplomat and he is no woman.
    Could it be Prabhupada's underlying issue with woman?

    Then few pages later Prabhupada goes on to say:
    For those who are less intelegent (like women, labourers, or the mercantile class) the great sage Vyasadeva wrote Mahabharata.

    I he wrote (for those less intelegent the great sage wrote Mahabarata.)
    it would suffice. Yet pointing out woman and the rest had to be done.
    Begineer in study of psychology would recognise the issue which has not been addressed correctly by the narator on his/her part, therefore not resolved.

    This is only at the begining of 10th kanto.
    If you read throughout all the kantos you will come accross many such examples which serve no purpose in enlightening one with the truth.
    They do give insight into the mind of narator.

    Om

  6. #16

    Re: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

    Srila Prabhupada is neither orthodox nor liberal. All of what Srila Prabhupada has explained in the translation and in the purports to Srimad Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam, are not his personal views. He is simply quoting the scriptures "as they are" and then additional literature such as Manu Smriti and writings by Chanakya pandit.

    Srila Prabhupada repeatedly said that when it comes to taking up spirituality and serving Krishna, there is no such thing as women are less intelligent. And again this statement of his is not his personal opinion, but a scriptural fact. Anyone who is sincere can take up spirituality regardless of body type - man/woman, indian/non-indian, brahmin-khsatriya-vaisya-sudra.

    Anyone can become devotee of Krishna, no pre-conditions and Srila Prabhupada made that abundently clear because that is unwavering scriptural fact.

    Srila Prabhupada gave Brahmin initiation to qualified women (both indian and westeners) which allowed them to serve the Deities on the altar. How many other Gurus have done this? He encouraged all of his disciples, men and women, to study Vaishnav Literatures such as Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam.

    If Srila Prabhupada had any negative bias about women, then women simply would not have taken initiation from him. Hundreds of women (westeners and indian) accepted him as their Spiritual Master and to this day these lady disciples of him, glorify him and thousands of women are following his teaching today.
    Last edited by santosh; 05 January 2009 at 08:36 PM.

  7. #17

    Re: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

    Quote Originally Posted by santosh View Post
    Srila Prabhupada is neither orthodox nor liberal. All of what Srila Prabhupada has explained in the translation and in the purports to Srimad Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam, are not his personal views. He is simply quoting the scriptures "as they are" and then additional literature such as Manu Smriti and writings by Chanakya pandit.

    Srila Prabhupada repeatedly said that when it comes to taking up spirituality and serving Krishna, there is no such thing as women are less intelligent. And again this statement of his is not his personal opinion, but a scriptural fact. Anyone who is sincere can take up spirituality regardless of body type - man/woman, indian/non-indian, brahmin-khsatriya-vaisya-sudra.

    Anyone can become devotee of Krishna, no pre-conditions and Srila Prabhupada made that abundently clear because that is unwavering scriptural fact.

    Srila Prabhupada gave Brahmin initiation to qualified women (both indian and westeners) which allowed them to serve the Deities on the altar. How many other Gurus have done this? He encouraged all of his disciples, men and women, to study Vaishnav Literatures such as Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam.

    If Srila Prabhupada had any negative bias about women, then women simply would not have taken initiation from him. Hundreds of women (westeners and indian) accepted him as their Spiritual Master and to this day these lady disciples of him, glorify him and thousands of women are following his teaching today.
    It is true that Prabhupada didn't distinguish between western and Indian devotees. But why is there so much bias for women in Iskcon - an organization started and laid down the foundation of by him?
    Women are second category in Iskcon than men. This is true.
    Though we love to idealize talking about Vedic times, but women in
    Iskcon are not treated even near to what it was in what it is in
    those ideals.
    Why is a GBC should not be married?? Why were all Vedic sages married, had children carried forward their race? Iskcon Vedic? Why is this Vedic
    virtue not followed by Iskcon Gurus?

  8. #18

    Re: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

    Hare Krishna Yogikriya and everybody,

    Thank you for your questions.

    I don't know how and in which capacity you are associating with ISKCON. I would like to know if you are regular devotee visitor to the ISKCON temples or someone you know has told you about the philosophy of ISKCON.

    It is absolutely false that there is any bias in ISKCON against women. I don't know what is the basis of thinking in such as way? Like I posted before, hundreds of women devotees, accepted Srila Prabhupada as their Spiritual Master and to this date, they are all loyal to him. If there existed any bias, these women disciples would have left long time ago.

    Srila Prabhupada gave Brahmin initiation to his women disciples so that they can do Deity Worship at the altar. So many of our Temples today and then, have women pujaris dressing the Lord, cooking for the Lord, performing Aarti at the Altar, giving Bhagavatam Classes to general public etc.

    Which other Hindu Temples do you know of, have you seen women pujaris at the Altar?

    > Why is a GBC should not be married??

    Some of our GBCs are Sanyasis, some are married, some have had divorce in their marital life. One of our GBC is a divorced women. She is very qualified and senior devotee.

    > Why were all Vedic sages married

    There are tens of thousands of examples of saints from vedic history who were not married, most famous amongst them is Sri Narada Muni.

    > Why were all Vedic sages married, had children carried forward their race? Iskcon Vedic? Why is this Vedic virtue not followed by Iskcon Gurus?

    In ISKCON, Gurus are Sanyasis as well as Grihastha (married).

    Also please understand that what is called ISKCON (International Society for Krishna Consciousness) is Brahma-Madva-Gaudiya sampradaya going back thousands of years. ISKCON is the legal entity name. Anything taught today in ISKCON is stictly along the teachings of previous Acharyas in the Sampradaya.

  9. Re: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagefrakrobatik View Post
    This is what it says in the 9th canto chapter 9 text 32

    "A women is supposed to always be dependent...According to Manu-samhita, she is never independent. Independence for a women means miserable life."
    Sage,

    "Misogyny" is defined as "hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women." (see http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/misogyny)

    Several points:

    1) He is stating what Manu-samhita has to say on the subject. One can repeat another person's words without necessarily agreeing with them.

    2) But assuming that he agrees with Manu, what exactly about the quote implies hatred for women? Clearly the quote says that women should be dependent, but this does not by the very fact imply hatred. Children are dependent on their parents - if someone says children should not be independent, is he a child abuser?

    3) Whether you agree or disagree, Manu's point of view as quoted above is a facet of traditional Hindu culture. There isn't much point in pretending otherwise. Is Hindu culture misogynistic?

  10. #20
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    Re: A.C. Bhakitvendenta Swami prabhupada is misogynistic

    My contact with ISKON is in San Francisco and Berkeley.

    The leader of the San Francisco Center frequently asked me to sing the slokas (Sanskrit). I found out at the Vedanta Society of Northern California nun's sanskrit lesson I spontaneously sing Sanskrit correctly.

    I have absolutely no standing either with ISKON or the Vedanta Society of Northern California, in spite of the fact the swami-in-charge said he would teach me (I didn't ask). The other members of the society said I was "too old" to be a nun. The nuns there, certainly, do not have "equal" standing or respect.

    I suppose it mattered not at all, I am a renunciate.

    I have had so-called vedic astrologers "characterize" my not having married and having no children as "afflictions".

    It is my experience, persons associated with India, with ISKON and with Hinduism can be and are misogynists. That may also be said for Buddhism and for Christianity and for Judaism. I have not had direct contact with any other religious groups.

    There would have been very different experiences, in my life, had I been "in community". I have tried every way to get "holy company" of or live as a hermit, and ideally, have some of both.

    It seemed to me, at both ISKON and at the Vedanta Society "devotees" were wanted for their labor or to be servants and the rich "devotees" had private lodgings.

    My experience of ISKON included: misogynist, dogmatic and bombastic.

    I did not meet Srila Prabhupad.
    Last edited by ConnieD; 12 May 2009 at 05:56 PM.

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