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Thread: ātman - Stretched Out

  1. #21

    Question Re: ātman - Stretched Out

    Dear all divine Soul,
    I also,before post comment in this matter with the view of Upanishad,Now I want to describe Atman or self in other view.
    The Holy Bible also states that God is Spirit (John 4:23-24) and he who worships Him worships in Spirit. Psalm 139: 7-10 states that God is a Spirit that is everywhere. Luke (24:39) states that Spirit does not have flesh and bones. No word or image can express or describe the magnitude of God.
    That mean Atman is self and self is God,In this point the Hastamalaka Stotra Give a great philosophical thought.
    Who is I?
    Ans.-I am neither man, God, yaksha, brahmin, kshatriya,
    vaisya, sudra, brahmachari, householder, forest-dweller, nor
    sannyasi; but I am pure awareness alone.

    That mean I m pureawarness.But how i m pure awarness,when I have desire?
    Ans:-
    "Desire is the root cause of Sorrow", says Buddha. The desire ridden mind is impure. Other impurities like anger or jealousy are its side products. When obstructed desire becomes anger, when someone else enjoys what one desires, it turns into jealousy. When one gets what one wanted, greed or pride arises.
    Mind is considered as two-fold: pure and impure. It is impure with the resolve of personal desire. It is pure when devoid of all selfish desires -AMRITABINDU UPANISHAD
    Mind binds, mind liberates! Thoughts are the medium through which the ego, the limited Self, appears and paves the way for all our likes and dislikes, pleasure and pain. Innocence of a child is free from attachment or hatred. As we reach deep within ourselves--we see this childlike nature of pure--undivided awareness due to attachment to sense objects. We pursue pleasure out of mere habit and not as a true need. Paying attention to the subtle ways our mind is indeed desire-less state. This thought is reflected in the 2nd mantra: "Mind alone is the cause of bondage and liberation for human beings. The mind attached to sense objects leads to bondage and that which is free of sense objects sets one free. So it is said". -
    AMRITABINDU UPANISHAD
    So u need to purify ur Citya or mind that u can attained pure awarness.
    Wat is the quality of this Atman?
    Ans.-Just as the sun causes all worldly movements, so do I
    -- the ever-present, conscious Self -- cause the mind to be
    active and the senses to function. Again, just as the ether is
    all-pervading, yet devoid of any specific qualities, so am I
    free from all qualities.

    How this self is define?
    Ans.-Just as the reflection of the sun on agitated waters
    seems to break up, but remains perfect on a calm surface, so
    also am I, the conscious Self, unrecognizable in agitated
    intellects though I clearly shine in those which are calm.

    How this self act when in bondage and when without bondage?
    Ans.-Self under bondage "I am the conscious Self, ever-present and associated
    with everything in the same manner as heat is always
    associated with fire. I am that eternal, undifferentiated,
    unshaken Consciousness, on account of which the insentient
    mind and senses function, each in its own manner
    ."

    Self withoutbondage or libaration.
    Jehovah said to enquiring Moses who asked Him His name, came the reply, ―I am Who I am‖(Exodus 3:14). Jesus Christ said the same thing by saying that: ―Before Abraham was, I am‖ Jesus also said, ―I and the Father are one‖(John,10:30). Jesus Christ made more than seven statements beginning with ―I am‖in the New Testament .
    Several times Jesus said, ―God is Spirit, Spirit meaning Brahman, Atman, Truth etc. He also said, ―The Father abiding in me doeth His work‖ So, all that shows that God is within you and everything is God‖
    From Ashtavakra Gita (॥ अष्टावक्र गीता ॥)
    Janaka: How is knowledge to be acquired? How is liberation to
    be attained? And how is dispassion to be reached? Tell me this,
    sir.
    Ashtavakra: If you are seeking liberation, my son, shun the
    objects of the senses like poison. Practise tolerance, sincerity,
    compassion, contentment and truthfulness like nectar.
    You do not consist of the elements - earth, water, fire, air or even
    ether. To be liberated, know yourself as consisting of
    consciousness, the witness of these.
    If only you will remain resting in consciousness, seeing yourself
    as distinct from the body, then even now you will become happy,
    peaceful and free from bonds.
    You do not belong to the brahmin or any other caste, you are not
    at any stage, nor are you anything that the eye can see. You are
    unattached and formless, the witness of everything - so be
    happy.
    Righteousness and unrighteousness, pleasure and pain are
    purely of the mind and are no concern of yours. You are neither
    the doer nor the reaper of the consequences, so you are always
    free.
    You are the one witness of everything, and are always
    completely free. The cause of your bondage is that you see the
    witness as something other than this.
    Since you have been bitten by the black snake, the opinion about
    yourself that "I am the doer", drink the antidote of faith in the
    fact that "I am not the doer", and be happy.
    Burn down the forest of ignorance with the fire of the
    understanding that "I am the one pure awareness", and be happy
    and free from distress.
    That in which all this appears - imagined like the snake in a rope,
    that joy, supreme joy and awareness is what you are, so be
    happy.
    If one thinks of oneself as free, one is free, and if one thinks of
    oneself as bound, one is bound. Here this saying is true,
    "Thinking makes it so".
    Your real nature is as the one perfect, free, and actionless
    consciousness, the all-pervading witness - unattached to
    anything, desireless and at peace. It is from illusion that you
    seem to be involved in samsara.
    Meditate on yourself as motionless awareness, free from any
    dualism, giving up the mistaken idea that you are just a
    derivative consciousness, or anything external or internal.
    You have long been trapped in the snare of identification with
    the body. Sever it with the knife of knowledge that "I am
    awareness", and be happy, my son.
    You are really unbound and actionless, self-illuminating and
    spotless already. The cause of your bondage is that you are still
    resorting to stilling the mind.
    All of this is really filled by you and strung out in you, for what
    you consist of is pure awareness - so don't be small minded.
    You are unconditioned and changeless, formless and immovable,
    unfathomable awareness and unperturbable, so hold to nothing
    but consciousness.
    Recognise that the apparent is unreal, while the unmanifest is
    abiding. Through this initiation into truth you will escape falling
    into unreality again.
    Just as a mirror exists everywhere both within and apart from its
    reflected images, so the Supreme Lord exists everywhere within
    and apart from this body.
    Just as one and the same all-pervading space exists within and
    without a jar, so the eternal, everlasting God exists in the totality
    of things.
    So atman is like space when its free.
    Jesus often said ―The kingdom of God is within you‖
    This is the kingdom of god.Self without bondage.
    Thanks

    Om purnam adah, purnam idam, purnat purnam udacyate; purnasya purnam adaya puram evavasisyate
    Om Santih! Santih! Santih
    That is Full; this is full. From the Full does the Full proceed. After the coming of the Full from the full, the Full alone remains
    Om. Peace! Peace! Peace!

  2. #22
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    Re: ātman - Stretched Out

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namast snip (et.al)

    Quote Originally Posted by Snip View Post

    We can categorise "mine" as body-mind and ego.

    The body is Mine, Mine too is the mind and it is held together with the I-sense (ahaṃkāra). Whilst we are compelled to maintain this personal perspective we are bound by mine (contrasted to "yours"). Whilst we take ourselves to be the body-mind and ego we are compelled to act in our interest, bound by our attractions and repulsions, i.e. by mine.

    We are released when all that was once mine becomes known as not mine which is Brahman. Brahman is the liberation of "not mine".

    However we must go further than to just cateogrise and label, we must come to know the not mine from the mine intuitively; by way of our sādhanā. This intuitive knowing too, can be dissolved further (a topic for another post perhaps).My point is that you touch on this subtle difference of knowing the categorical facts from the intuitive knowing in an earlier post you offered us for thought:

    Released by not mine man bathes in Brahmans fullness for Brahman is all that is. This release is the expansion or stretching out of atman, for atman is Brahman when known as being without limitation.
    I enjoy the perspective you offer... it suggests 'mine' as limited, constrained, or bound . 'Not mine' suggest just the opposite - without boundries, boundless. And we know this boundless to be brahman, fullness ( bhūman).

    praṇām

    words
    bhūman - the aggregate of all existing things ; plentifully , abundantly
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #23
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    Re: ātman - Stretched Out

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    Note that in mameti it is 'ma' that means 'me'. It is from this 'me' we come to the word 'mine' as offered in post 19 i.e. the 44th mantra of the varāha upaniṣad.

    The 'ma' also means 'measure' as the individual 'me' is measured out i.e. a boundry of person or individual. When 'not mine' occurs in the 44th śloka it is said as nirmameti or 'not me' nirma. This means then
    not measured. If it is unmeasured, it infers unmeasurable and unbounded, and we arrive a brahman.


    ma and nirma - me and not me. mine and not mine , bondage and mokṣa.

    Where do we find this 'ma' used? In the infinite measured out or māyā. The first definition of māyā is measuring.

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #24

    Re: ātman - Stretched Out

    cool... I cant comment on all, but I read it. Yajvan your posts are gonna take some time to digest. Snip's comments seems to be in line with the other lines in the same upanishad. purnapragya... nice... but a lot at once.

    Anyway... a few more lines form varāha upaniṣad:

    māyātatkāryavilaye neśvaratvaṃ na jīvatā || 2.52 ||
    tataḥ śuddhaścidevāhaṃ vyomavannirupādhikaḥ |

    2.52(b)-53(a). Should Maya and its effects (the universe) be annihilated, there is no state of Ishvara, there is no state of Jiva. Therefore like the Akasa without its vehicle, I am the immaculate and Chit.

    aviśeṣeṇa sarvaṃ tu yaḥ paśyati cidanvayāt |
    sa eva sākṣādvijñānī sa śivaḥ sa harirvidhiḥ || 2.63 ||

    2.63. If he sees everything as Chit without any difference, he alone is an actual Vijnani. He alone is Shiva. He alone is Hari. He alone is Brahma.

    adyāstametu vapurāśaśitāramāstāṃ, kastāvatāpi mama cidvapuṣo viśeṣaḥ |
    kumbhe vinaśyati ciraṃ samavasthite vā, kumbhāmbarasya nahi ko'pi viśeṣaleśaḥ || 2.66 ||

    2.66. Whether the body perishes now or lasts the age of moon and stars, what matters it to me having Chit alone as my body? What matters it to the Akasa in the pot, whether it (the pot) is destroyed now or exists for a long time.

    bhātītyukte jagatsarvaṃ bhānaṃ brahmaiva kevalam |
    marubhūmau jalaṃ sarvaṃ marubhūmātrameva tat |
    jagattrayamidaṃ sarvaṃ cinmātraṃ svavicārataḥ || 2.72 ||

    2.72. If it is said that the universe shines, then it is Brahman alone that shines. (The mirage of) all the water in an oasis is really no other than the oasis itself. Through inquiry of one’s Self, the three worlds (above, below and middle) are only of the nature of Chit.

    nahi nānāsvarūpaṃ syādekaṃ vastu kadācana |
    tasmādakhaṇḍa evāsmi yanmadanyanna kiṃcana || 3.1 ||

    3.1. “The One Principle cannot at any time become of manifold forms. As I am the partless, there is none else but myself.

    sarvaṃ sukhaṃ viddhi suduḥkhanāśātsarvaṃ ca sadrūpamasatyanāśāt |
    cidrūpameva pratibhānayuktaṃ, tasmādakhaṇḍaṃ mama rūpametat || 3.4 ||

    3.4. Know all to be happiness through the annihilation of sorrow and all to be of the nature of Sat (be-ness) through the annihilation of Asat (not-be-ness). It is only the nature of Chit (Consciousness) that is associated with this visible universe. Therefore my form is partless.

    janmamṛtyusukhaduḥkhavarjitaṃ, jātinītikulagotradūragam |
    cidvivartajagato'sya kāraṇaṃ, tatsadāhamiti maunamāśraya || 3.7 ||

    3.7. It (Brahman) is not subject to birth and death, happiness and misery. It is not subject to caste, law, family and Gotra (clan). Practise silence – I am Chit, which is the Vivarta-Upadana (viz., the illusory cause) of the universe.

    ----

    There seems to be a lot of chit in this upanishad, or should we say chit is one?
    Note that Akasa is often used symbolically referring to chit (not elemental akasa) as in verse 2.52-53 & 2.66. Ishvara/Jiva is the "vehicle" for chit & Ishvara/Jiva is māyā. So māyā is the "vehicle" for chit. And māyā is that which is said to not exist. [my conclusions]... This is more like a few more verses on the chit-issue. But the rabbit hole goes deeper... and so... -->

    I find verse 3.1 / 3.4 / 3.7 interesting.
    In verse 3.1 its said: "The One Principle cannot at any time become of manifold forms"
    This seems to imply that even though there are many forms, there is but one chit.

    In verse 3.7 its said: "I am Chit, which is the Vivarta-Upadana (illusory cause) of the universe"
    This seems to imply that chit is the illusory cause

    In verse 3.4 its said "only the nature of Chit is associated with this visible universe. Therefore my form is partless"
    This one is GOOD. And here I would like someone to elaborate. I think this verse holds some interesting info. What do YOU make of it?
    There is a Guru in each of us. It is the Atma principle. It is the Eternal Witness functioning as Conscience in everyone. With this Conscience as guide, let all actions be done. (sss20-15)

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