Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 24

Thread: ātman - Stretched Out

  1. #11
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    69
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    218

    Re: ātman - Stretched Out

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast ekanta
    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post


    This is a reasonable assessment. Note that this condition you mention does not have to be one or the other. That is why this māyā is so important in the śloka.
    Please note that I do not have a reliable copy of the varāha upaniṣad to CONFIRM this śloka says indeed māyā , maya or māya.
    Note that māyā and māya are relatively equal, yet maya is a different word and meaning.


    That said, my point in the last post is, if it indeed says māyā I can
    understand why this would be. I will continue to look for a copy of this upaniṣad that is clear ( to me ) .

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #12
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    India
    Posts
    4,193
    Rep Power
    364

    Re: ātman - Stretched Out

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namast ekanta
    Please note that I do not have a reliable copy of the varāha upaniṣad to CONFIRM this śloka says indeed māyā , maya or māya.
    Note that māyā and māya are relatively equal, yet maya is a different word and meaning.

    That said, my point in the last post is, if it indeed says māyā I can
    understand why this would be. I will continue to look for a copy of this upaniṣad that is clear ( to me ) .
    praṇām
    Namaste Yajvan ji

    As discussed, i think it is mayam, since it is associated with cin. cinmaya, means consisting of pure thought. I may be wrong. Ekanta will be able to confirm from his original script.

    Om Namah Shivaya
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  3. #13

    Re: ātman - Stretched Out

    you can find devanagari version here:
    http://sanskritdocuments.org/all_sa/varaha_sa.html
    Since I cant read devanagari I just get my stuff there and run it through transliterate program to get IAST (sanskrit editor).
    http://www.sanskrit-sanscrito.com.ar...software.shtml

    Translation to english is another story... But at least its nice to be able to check sanskrit. Makes me half-blind instead of totally blind.
    There is a Guru in each of us. It is the Atma principle. It is the Eternal Witness functioning as Conscience in everyone. With this Conscience as guide, let all actions be done. (sss20-15)

  4. #14

    Re: ātman - Stretched Out

    चिदिहास्तीति चिन्मात्रमिदं चिन्मयमेव च .
    चित्त्वं चिदहमेते च लोकाश्चिदिति भावय .. ४७..

    turns into:

    cidihāstīti cinmātramidaṃ cinmayameva ca .
    cittvaṃ cidahamete ca lokāściditi bhāvaya .. 47..

    magic!
    There is a Guru in each of us. It is the Atma principle. It is the Eternal Witness functioning as Conscience in everyone. With this Conscience as guide, let all actions be done. (sss20-15)

  5. #15
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    India
    Posts
    4,193
    Rep Power
    364

    Re: ātman - Stretched Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekanta View Post
    Translation to english is another story... But at least its nice to be able to check sanskrit. Makes me half-blind instead of totally blind.
    Wide grin.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    69
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    218

    Re: ātman - Stretched Out

    hari o
    ~~~~~~


    namast ekanta and atanu,

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekanta View Post
    चिदिहास्तीति चिन्मात्रमिदं चिन्मयमेव च .
    चित्त्वं चिदहमेते च लोकाश्चिदिति भावय .. ४७..

    turns into:
    cidihāstīti cinmātramidaṃ cinmayameva ca .
    cittvaṃ cidahamete ca lokāściditi bhāvaya .. 47..
    magic!
    cidihāstīti cinmātramidaṃ cinmayameva ca |
    cittvaṃ cidahamete ca lokāściditi bhāvaya || 47


    चिन्मय - cinmaya - consisting of pure thought.

    Yes, makes sense.

    praṇām

    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  7. #17
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    69
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    218

    Re: ātman - Stretched Out

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Yet what is this varāha upaniṣad we have been discussing- what is it all about?
    Varāha is a boar, yet is also suggests superiority. The wise muni ṛbhu, meaning clever , skilful , inventive , prudent ( also a son of brahman) does his tapas for some time; Who appears before him? The Supreme, bhagavān as varāha.

    He asks the Supreme to impart to him the wisdom/knowledge of brahman i.e. brahmavidyāṃ. He talks of the tattva's numbering 24, 36, and some say ninty-six. To this He says listen as I will review them in order. He concludes there are 24 and there are 36. He also adds 60 more such as the changes the tattva's mentioned as they go through i.e. existence, birth, growth, transformation, decay and destruction. He adds more such as hunger, thirst, grief, delusion, old age and dealth as the various infirmities one can experience.

    Then in the 2nd chapter the great ṛbhu (ṛbhurnāma mahāyogī) wishes to know more about this brahmavidyāṃ ( wisdom of brahman).
    The Lord says much, yet mentions I alone am happiness . If it is said that if there is another, then there is not happiness.

    This is most insightful as this infers the wisdom of another upaniṣad . The Lord is saying if there is another, then there is 2.
    Any time there is a sense of 2, fear arises i.e. dvitiyad vai bhayam bhavati - Fear is born of duality. This is from the bṛhadaraṇyaka upaniṣad - puruṣavidha-brāhmaṇa, 2nd śloka.
    • dvitiyad or dvitīya द्वितीय - 2nd or two , couple,
    • bhayam or bhaya भय- fear , alarm dread apprehension
      • rooted in bhī to fear for , be anxious about
    • vai an emphasis and affirmation , generally placed after a word
      and laying stress on it (it is usually translatable by 'indeed' ,
      'truly' , 'certainly' )
    • bhavati or bhava भव arising or produced from , being in
    Hence we can see from the orientation of this varāha upaniṣad that it is advaita --> a=not + dvaita = duality , duplicity , dualism.

    And there is more as one whould think, and this why I mentioned māyā as being relvent to this upaniṣad in the posts above. Why so? Because the Supreme is talking of advaita ,
    He says, the universe, jīva, māyā , īśvara and others really do not exist - only ( or except) My fullness of ātma i.e. the Supreme Self, the highest personal principle of life , brahma.

    There is more, but I will stop here and let others contribute as they see fit.
    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #18
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    69
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    218

    Re: ātman - Stretched Out

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Continuing within the varāha upaniṣad ...

    asti brahmeti cedveda parokṣa-jñānameva tat |
    ahaṃ brahmeti cedveda sākṣātkāraḥ sa ucyate || 41

    A man is said to to know (cedveda = who knows) or has parokṣa¹ (limited or indirect) knowledge (jñāna) where he knows there is brahman;
    yet he is said to attain sākṣātkāraḥ¹ (direct seeing of an extraordinary nature , cognition) when he realizes or knows (cedveda) he himself (ahaṃ or I) is brahman ( brahmeti)


    What does this say? Many of us (me) know of this brahman, we read of it, we have somewhat a clear understanding of it but we are yet to bathe in this Being in all its fullness.

    What does the Supreme say next? When the yogin comes to know his own ātman to be this fullness, this brahman, then he/she becomes the jīvanmukta.

    praṇām

    words
    • parokṣa - , in the absence or without the knowledge ;out of sight , behind one's back
    • sākṣātkāraḥ - sākṣa+ at+ kāraḥ
      • sākṣa - having eyes ~seeing~ cognizing
      • at = ati - extraordinary
      • kāraḥ or kāra has many definitons - the one that applies here is 'gain'
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #19
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    69
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    218

    Re: ātman - Stretched Out

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Continuing within the varāha upaniṣad ...


    mameti badhyate janturnirmameti vimucyate |
    bāhyacintā na kartavyā tathaivāntaracintikā |
    sarvacintāṃ samutsṛjya svastho bhava sadā ṛbho || 44

    The following is not my translation, but I thought it very insightful.

    It says,
    There are two words for bondage and mokṣa . They are 'mine' and
    'not mine' . Man is bound by 'mine' and released by 'not mine'.

    What do you think this is saying?

    praṇām
    Last edited by yajvan; 06 September 2010 at 10:11 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #20
    Join Date
    September 2009
    Posts
    623
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: ātman - Stretched Out

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Man is bound by 'mine' and released by 'not mine'.
    What do you think this is saying?
    Namaste Yajvan and friends
    This is a most interesting topic, may the momentum continue!

    We can categorise more names or concepts under the two categories of “mine” and “not mine” to broaden our understanding. This categorical understanding will help us in an answer to the question you included above for our interaction.

    We can categorise "mine" as body-mind and ego.

    The body is “Mine”, “Mine” too is the mind and it is held together with the I-sense (ahaṃkāra). Whilst we are compelled to maintain this personal perspective we are bound by “mine” (contrasted to "yours"). Whilst we take ourselves to be the body-mind and ego we are compelled to act in our interest, bound by our attractions and repulsions, i.e. by “mine”.

    We are released when all that was once “mine” becomes known as “not mine” which is Brahman. Brahman is the liberation of "not mine".

    However we must go further than to just cateogrise and label, we must come to know the “not mine” from the “mine” intuitively; by way of our sādhanā. This intuitive knowing too, can be dissolved further (a topic for another post perhaps).My point is that you touch on this subtle difference of knowing the categorical facts from the intuitive knowing in an earlier post you offered us for thought:

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    What does this say? Many of us (me) know of this brahman, we read of it, we have somewhat a clear understanding of it but we are yet to bathe in this Being in all its fullness.
    Released by “not mine” man bathes in Brahman’s fullness for Brahman is all that is. This release is the expansion or stretching out of atman, for atman is Brahman when known as being without limitation.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •