Svetasvatara Upanishad says that once you attain Brahman or Self, it hardly matters how you conduct which includes killing of family members or other acts considered bad by the society. In effect, you transcend morality.
Svetasvatara Upanishad says that once you attain Brahman or Self, it hardly matters how you conduct which includes killing of family members or other acts considered bad by the society. In effect, you transcend morality.
Hi Soham,
Reading the meaning of certain slokas of any Upanisad could lead one to wrong conclusions. The object of Upanisads is to realise self or Brahman. These Upanisads are to be studied under a well versed Guru. In Katopanisad Lord Yama tells Naciketa that only a Guru who has realised Self could impart knowledge to others about Self. Otherwise it is like a blind man leading another blind.
Bruhadaranaya Upanisad (4.4.6) says
From this one could understand that one could realise Brahman only when all desires have left. The question of killing others arises only if some body hates another person so deeply that he decides to kill. Could a person,
- (Self) Experiencing (in other world) the end of whatever work it does in this life, it comes from that world again to this world for (new) work. Thus does the man with craving (transmigrate). But of a man who has no craving - who is without desires, whom desires have left, whose objects of desire have been realised, whose only object of desire is the Self - the organs do not go out. (Ever) being Brahman Itself, he is merged in Brahman. (4.4.6)
- When all the desires that abide in the intellect of a man have totally left, then the mortal man becomes immortal and realises Brahman in this very body. (4.4.7)
having realised Brahman possibly think of killing another person or for that matter harm another in any way? For the answer you can again go to Bruhadaranaya Upanisad:
When there is duality, as it were, then one smells another, one sees another, one hears another, one speaks of another, one thinks of another, one knows of another. When (however) all has become the very self of the knower of Brahman, then what should one smell and through what? What should one hear and through what? What should one speak of through what? What should one know and through what? Through what should one know That because of which all this is known? Through what, my dear (Maitreyi) should one know the Knower? (2.4.14)
I hope the doubt is cleared.
Hari Om
~~~~~
Namaste syvedi40,
Most excellently said. The wisdom of the Upanishads is quite profound.
Taking them just at face value, word for word will not yield the maximum results. Why so? the rishis were adept in samketa ( sam is join, completeness, + keta or a mark, a sign, intention, will). This samketa is symbols.
We can go deeper and wider as needed, yet the conversation must consider what a individual does once established in Brahman. IF we look to the Chandogya Upanishad Chapt 2.1.4 it points out that all dharmas come to him that adores sAman.
That is, once established in Brahman ones conduct is in accord with the laws of nature that guide and direct this whole creation. This is the practical side of becoming Brahmavit ( knowing Brahman) - one's actions are now HIS actions. Where then can there be fault? Where then could there be any actions that are not Rta ( Rta ऋत proper , right , fit , apt , suitable; enlightened, luminious).
pranams
More HDF discussion on symbols:
1.http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...hlight=symbols
2.http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...hlight=symbols
3. http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...hlight=symbols
यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
because you are identical with śiva
_
There has been error on my part in the interpretation. In some upanishads, it is stated that a gyani / jnani is not bound. And so by killing, he does not kill because he is rooted in the Absolute.
That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.
Krishna was a jnani but he preaches Arjun in bhagvad-gita to kill the opponents. Same theme is there in some of the upanishads. And because every thing other than Brahman is totally illusory & completely unreal, so a jnani can do any thing & indulge in any activity whatsoever. And these include incest, murder, robbery and indeed any crime or thing imaginable whatsoever.
Theoretically this is right, since morality is meant only for pashus while the Siddha is free to act as he/she wills.
However there are two points to keep in mind:
1. Most probably the Siddha won't kill without a dharmic reason, because he is in harmony with the whole universe.
2. Practical use of such discussions is near to zero, because these questions exist for those, who are not yet Siddhas . And thus any conclusions whether right or wrong aren't applied to them.
Hari Om
~~~~~
Namsate Arjuna (et al.)
as you mention the practical use is almost zero, AND a person of unstable mind can think ' oh, it is okay to kill - why not? If it is offered to Brahman and Brahman is all, where then am I commiting any wrong action'
These thoughts are completely obtuse to Reality. I have seen this logic before and posted it. Where a person went hunting. He saw a rabbit. He aimed his gun at the rabbit , but before he pulled the trigger he said ' God if its not right for me to hunt, let me miss the rabbit when I shoot'.
He did not miss, and now he thinks that hunting is justified.
This is obtuse thinking we find in Kali Yuga.
pranams
यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
because you are identical with śiva
_
Any idea may be wrongly understood and applied. But I think that psychically normal person won't start killing, raping or torturing people even if he firmly admits that morality is of no use and any actions are OK in the totality of Brahman
The problem with morality is that it gives ready-made solutions, which cannot fit in each and every case. Another problem is that: it makes a person irresponsible and tamasic. And one more problem is that it gives a wonderful base for development of ego and pride in some and psycological complexes in another. The truly human way is understanding and not morality. Understanding prevents one from committing real sins and makes one free from numerous moral superstitions.
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