New Member
(1) Yoga Vasishtha says that conscience of an enlightened person should not trouble him even if he kills people in thousands. It says that world is like the son of a barren woman.
(2) Mandukya upanishad says that there is absolutely no difference between waking & dream states.
(3) Gaudapada, Ramana and Nisargadatta propounded the doctrine of non-creation or ajatavada.
(4) Above 3 points suggest that one need not be lawful or moralistic.
Member
Namaste Soham,Originally Posted by soham3
Let us attain that state and then decide. Else do something so immoral that police will lock you up and then decide.
Om
That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.
etad vai tat
Hari Om
~~~~~~
Alice: Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?
The Cat: That depends a good deal on where you want to get to
Alice: I don't much care where.
The Cat: Then it doesn't much matter which way you go.
Alice in Wodnerland, By Lewis Carroll
यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
because you are identical with śiva
_
New Member
Mahatma Nischal Das was a jnani. He said out of his experience that every thing is only in imagination. Vasishtha said that every thing is mere sankalpa / thoughts. When last of the thoughts disappears then the Self shines. He also said that there are 2 minds - outer & inner. Outer mind goes to senses. Inner mind goes to the Spirit within. We have to weaken outer mind & strengthen inner mind.
Member
Namaste Soham.
It is one thing to advocate lawlessness and immorality, but could you give examples of jnAnis (in today's world) who indulged in the liberties you are talking of and still survived as jnAni?
Member
Why do not you realise that your definitions of moral and immoral are as of now -- with a mind?
That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.
New Member
(1) Nisargadatta lived in Mumbai in an area notorious for the flesh trade. His family members were of the same genre. He used to ask a person to get out & never visit him at the slightest provocation.
(2) Suppose I say, " I kill saideo ". Now in this sentence
' I ' is Brahman,
' kill ' is Brahman and
' saideo ' is Brahman.
So there is absolutely no lawlessness or immorality.
etad vai tat
Hari Om
~~~~~~
Namaste soham
can you help a casual observer of your logic?
Assist me on where you find His grace and upliftment in this conversation to the HDF reader... for this I am perplexed. I see little value in a discussion of killing which does not help the arih ( the faithful or devoted ) or the sadhu.
- How does Nisargadatta-ji fit into the conversation? and;
- the notion of killing... what good comes out of this conversation? How does one walk away uplifted? What teaching is there anyway , if not only for the jivanmukti who knows this already?
- What then is the final conclusion you come to that you offer - killing is okay?
A key principle you have perhaps missed is, guidance, 'rules' and dharma apply differently in different states of consciousness and levels of varna. What is appropriate for the ksatryia and his protection of sociey is different then for the vaysias or the brahmana. We are not a 'one size fits all' society.
Killing and death we have enough of - it happens every 4 seconds on this good earth. On TV it is the 'entertainment' of the masses, yet they cringe when death visits their home.
Perhaps the continued conversation is appropricate for those that may work in a meat packing plant and not aware of yama and niyama.
Surely there are other matters to consider other then killing.
pranams
Offered on Saturday A.M. in the hora owned by Yama.
Last edited by yajvan; 19 April 2008 at 11:24 AM.
यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
because you are identical with śiva
_
New Member
(1) Nisargadatta was a jnani of ill-manners. But there have been jnanis including hindu deities who would kill. Yet they remained jnanis all the same.
Above was in response to saidevo's query.
(2) All killings should be offered to Brahman.
(3) Point is that instead of spending energy in becoming a moralistic person, one should spend time on Self-realization. Inadvertant killings on that path should be taken in stride & without remorse. And not only that but other transgressions can be there which should not cause any worry to spiritual seeker.
Self Seeker
Ditto !
OM
"Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"
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