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Thread: Svetasvatara Upanishad

  1. #21
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    Arrow Re: Svetasvatara Upanishad

    Quote Originally Posted by soham3 View Post
    Svetasvatara Upanishad says that once you attain Brahman or Self, it hardly matters how you conduct which includes killing of family members or other acts considered bad by the society. In effect, you transcend morality.
    Theoretically this is right, since morality is meant only for pashus while the Siddha is free to act as he/she wills.
    However there are two points to keep in mind:
    1. Most probably the Siddha won't kill without a dharmic reason, because he is in harmony with the whole universe.
    2. Practical use of such discussions is near to zero, because these questions exist for those, who are not yet Siddhas . And thus any conclusions whether right or wrong aren't applied to them.

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    Re: Svetasvatara Upanishad

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna View Post
    2. Practical use of such discussions is near to zero, because these questions exist for those, who are not yet Siddhas . And thus any conclusions whether right or wrong aren't applied to them.

    Namsate Arjuna (et al.)
    as you mention the practical use is almost zero, AND a person of unstable mind can think ' oh, it is okay to kill - why not? If it is offered to Brahman and Brahman is all, where then am I commiting any wrong action'

    These thoughts are completely obtuse to Reality. I have seen this logic before and posted it. Where a person went hunting. He saw a rabbit. He aimed his gun at the rabbit , but before he pulled the trigger he said ' God if its not right for me to hunt, let me miss the rabbit when I shoot'.
    He did not miss, and now he thinks that hunting is justified.

    This is obtuse thinking we find in Kali Yuga.

    pranams
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #23
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    Re: Svetasvatara Upanishad

    Any idea may be wrongly understood and applied. But I think that psychically normal person won't start killing, raping or torturing people even if he firmly admits that morality is of no use and any actions are OK in the totality of Brahman

    The problem with morality is that it gives ready-made solutions, which cannot fit in each and every case. Another problem is that: it makes a person irresponsible and tamasic. And one more problem is that it gives a wonderful base for development of ego and pride in some and psycological complexes in another. The truly human way is understanding and not morality. Understanding prevents one from committing real sins and makes one free from numerous moral superstitions.

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    Re: Svetasvatara Upanishad

    Quote Originally Posted by soham3 View Post
    ----(3) Point is that instead of spending energy in becoming a moralistic person, one should spend time on Self-realization. Inadvertant killings on that path should be taken in stride & without remorse. And not only that but other transgressions can be there which should not cause any worry to spiritual seeker.
    Namaste Soham,

    This point of yours has value. As it is taught that when true knowledge dawns, one knows (experiences continously) that Atman, which is spirit, does not come into contact with anything -- any object or any action.

    But to experience that truth, the mind needs to be free of attachment to Vishaya, in which case, thought of killing or any other transgression should not arise at all. In case transgressions take place, only a true Jnani who has totally given up the association with the body can be guilt and/or attachment free and no other.

    The point is: One cannot crave for a bodily pleasure, preferentially for one's own so-called body, and then say "I am not attached".

    Om
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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    Re: Svetasvatara Upanishad

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    The point is: One cannot crave for a bodily pleasure, preferentially for one's own so-called body, and then say "I am not attached".
    If one is not attached, he won't stop "so called body" from its pleasure either

  6. #26

    Re: Svetasvatara Upanishad

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna View Post
    If one is not attached, he won't stop "so called body" from its pleasure either
    what is the body? what is its pleasure?
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

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    Re: Svetasvatara Upanishad

    a jnani can do any thing & indulge in any activity whatsoever. And these include incest, murder, robbery and indeed any crime or thing imaginable whatsoever.
    On reading this the first thing that came to my mind was an article on the subject, "Advait Vedanta Vs Buddhism". In this article, there was a statement :

    Advait Vedanta is surely the highest path but without railings & so can be dangerous for the undesciplined minds. (This is why they don't teach non-duality to undesciplined mind in Buddhism. They just don't accept you as a desciple !)

    Soham's above quote presses me to think that the above is right !

    There are many examples where people got just the half-truth & thought they were Jnani & now were free from all rules. There was one gentleman from Bengal who after his study of Advait Vedanta declared that he could trample the Shiva Lingam under his feet as the form was just an illusion !

    The reality is that at the state of One-ness such thoughts cannot arise. In fact, Non-dual state is free from all thoughts. The "i" (ahamkar, ego) drops dead. There is no "you", "him" or any "other" .... there is just "I AM", the One without a second .... where can the thoughts arise let alone any carnal desire or desire to kill ! When mind turns inward the ruler (mind) of the sense organs is absent & in its absence no sense organs can feel any craving.

    It is true that for Jnani the Rules don't apply but the situation arising for applying the rules is also but an impossibilty !

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Svetasvatara Upanishad

    Quote Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
    what is the body? what is its pleasure?
    Sarvam khalvidam Brahma

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    Re: Svetasvatara Upanishad

    Quote Originally Posted by soham3 View Post
    Krishna was a jnani but he preaches Arjun in bhagvad-gita to kill the opponents. Same theme is there in some of the upanishads. And because every thing other than Brahman is totally illusory & completely unreal, so a jnani can do any thing & indulge in any activity whatsoever. And these include incest, murder, robbery and indeed any crime or thing imaginable whatsoever.
    First, Krishna was NOT a jnani in the real sense of the word; he was an avatar. Jnanis are ones who "attain" Brahman whereas Krishna was Brahman personified.

    Secondly, one who becomes enlightened will never partake in such acts as you have mentioned. Once one attains equanimity of mind, the only drive is to constantly be in that state. There is no question of killing etc. Part of being illumined is that one will not participate in such activities unless required to do so by his svadharma; as was the case with Arjuna.

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    Re: Svetasvatara Upanishad

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    On reading this the first thing that came to my mind was an article on the subject, "Advait Vedanta Vs Buddhism". In this article, there was a statement :

    Advait Vedanta is surely the highest path but without railings & so can be dangerous for the undesciplined minds. (This is why they don't teach non-duality to undesciplined mind in Buddhism. They just don't accept you as a desciple !)

    Soham's above quote presses me to think that the above is right !

    There are many examples where people got just the half-truth & thought they were Jnani & now were free from all rules. There was one gentleman from Bengal who after his study of Advait Vedanta declared that he could trample the Shiva Lingam under his feet as the form was just an illusion !

    The reality is that at the state of One-ness such thoughts cannot arise. In fact, Non-dual state is free from all thoughts. The "i" (ahamkar, ego) drops dead. There is no "you", "him" or any "other" .... there is just "I AM", the One without a second .... where can the thoughts arise let alone any carnal desire or desire to kill ! When mind turns inward the ruler (mind) of the sense organs is absent & in its absence no sense organs can feel any craving.

    It is true that for Jnani the Rules don't apply but the situation arising for applying the rules is also but an impossibilty !

    OM
    Namaste,

    Wonderfully put!

    Subham.

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