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Thread: Hindu Origins of Judeo-Christian Religion

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    Post Hindu Origins of Judeo-Christian Religion

    All monotheistic religions must be considering exactly the same ultimate deity. And all Christians, all Jews, all Muslims, and all Hindus, understand that in truth there is only one Godhead, which in each case must be one and the same. Some see further than others, into finer levels of abstraction, but all are looking towards exactly the same aim (as various spokes leading back to the same hub that drives them all).

    All names and forms are taken by that indefinable essence of immortal existence, yet no name or form is sufficient for the unborn advaitam. That unnamed rudra is know only in samAdhi (not by name or form, but only by the indescribable experience of absolute identity), but its apparently diverse rudrAs are followed by the various theologies, each adhering to its own expression of the one name that is truly beyond all names.

    In the highest samAdhi of perfect advaitam there is only the one God, so that any suggestion of plurality or verifiable form is impossible.

    sanAtana dharma is founded in the wisdom of the dharma cakram and yama and yoga and advaitam. Whereas the devoted followers of an individual guru, following just one spoke of the eternal wheel, in ignorance (or denial) of any other true spokesman, take their dharma as a veritable sword cleaving a straight path to the source of all illumination.

    Knowing the whole field of dharma (cf. kurukshetram) the wise guru understands that many different paths are valid for different individual circumstances, but that (when all true paths are considered) there is ultimately no difference at all. And Hindu understanding (the mother of all monistic religion) has always been tempered by this overriding thought of ultimate unity.

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    Post Re: Hindu Origins of Judeo-Christian Religion

    Over the centuries, the advaita dharma cakram (the sun of dharma) has cast an occasional AryaHinduH (a bright spark of true illumination) to the west ~ as an occasional ray of brilliant light shooting westwards into the darkness from the dawning of immortal wisdom that eternally recurs in the east, only to be trampled and lost. And those muddied gems still lie hidden and only awaiting their discovery.

    The original (forgotten) diaspora of bRMhan became abRMham in the west, and the subsequent diaspora has become what appears today as a range of separate religions.

    Each spoke in the wheel of dharma has its own guided path, and while the language remains the same the sign posts on another path remain familiar instructions, but if the language is translated then the similarities soon become invisible to anyone unfamiliar with both tongues.

    The philosophies of Jainism and Taoism (for example) seem to be distinguished only by the language used. And the original separations of Vedanta and Jaina and the Tao, and also the teaching of Christ, are fundamentally due to translation of the one dharma into different tongues.

    The speciation of dharma has occurred along the lines of biological species, and originally identical paths have become different paths only when their previously regular intercourse becomes interrupted by some isolating cause (such as geography and language).

    The veda was revealed to various RSayas over a long period of time, but they are songs which have been sung for thousands of years, learned by heart as a sacred tradition and passed over countless generations from father to son (with no mistakes allowed). And the songs are virtually self-composed from the very nature of saMskRta language and the natural history of reality itself (the two are intimately bound).

    Of course, the interpretations are subtly revised and represented for new generations and new situations, and that is why the corpus of Hindu texts is so vast, with layers and layers of coherent reinterpretation of exactly the same theme.

    The vedAs were originally passed by learned brAhmaNAs from generation to generation only by direct speech, and were never actually written down, and this process has been continuous over millennia. And at some point, the written code of brAhmI (and later devanAgarI) was established, and the vedAs were fixed in writing for the first time.

    The major upaniSadas were composed in the first half of the first millennium BC, and it was during this time that the Brahmi, Phoenician, and Aramaic, scripts were developed. And by recording the oral traditions in an easily translatable script, they were effectively released for broad publication.

    And I believe that the codification of the shruti (which had previously only been heard and remember by heart) in written form, which created for the first time what we now consider as “scripture” and spawned various “new” religions, which are in truth only different translations of exactly the same eternal truths. And in the absence of the original oral traditions, the various dispensations have continued to diverge under their own cultural influences, with their original identities masked by the general veil of non-comprehension between different languages and scripts.

    The strict advaitam of the upaniSad insists that the only true image of God is actually beyond any possibility of description, and therefore ALL images of God are technically false images.

    And the advaita philosophy of Hinduism was transported to the west, where it has been interpreted mainly by philosophers with a dvaita perspective. So it is no surprise that adharmA and avidyA has resulted. But it is not the original words that are faulty, only the subsequent interpretations and translations, every one of which must involve the personal interpretation of the translator, which then becomes its own dogma, denying and limiting other possibilities, and perhaps even turning the original truth on its head.

    Religion was originally a personal matter of correct “selection” or “perception” of Truth. Over time, however, the various selections made by some inspired members of different cultural groups have become “set in stone” for those groups, and subsequently their particular cultural version of “religion” or dharma has been presented more dogmatically.

    And the production of actual scripture (the written word as opposed to the spoken word) is perhaps the main reason for the historical change in the perceived nature of religion (from wise choice to veritable bondage) which has tended to occur in all the established faiths.

    Just as different monistic religions are like spokes in the wheel of Hindu dharma, each language of the Indo-European family represents a part of the whole, and resting at the hub is surely Sanskrit.

    Sanskrit is the oldest living language, and Hindu scripture traces an unbroken line back to the source of language itself, with only slight changes along the way. And Sanskrit is well-recorded in mantras and shlokas from every stage.

    Scripture, like poetry, carries multiple levels of meaning that cannot easily be compressed and transcribed into another language. And every translation into another language can only be the translator’s interpretation of the original words.

    And every translation gives plenty of scope for corruption of the original meaning, and my contention is that the bulk of Judaic and Christian scripture actually stems from originally Sanskrit texts and teachings.

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    Post Re: Hindu Origins of Judeo-Christian Religion

    From Genesis:
    And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

    And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

    And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for mortar.

    And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

    And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men built.

    And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language.


    From Sir William Jones:
    We cannot justly conclude, by arguments preceding the proof of facts, that one people must have borrowed their deities, rites, and tenets from another; since Gods of all shapes and dimensions may be framed by the boundless powers of imagination, or by the frauds and follies of men, in countries never connected; but, when features of resemblance, too strong to have been accidental, are observable in different systems, without fancy or prejudice to colour them and improve the likeness, we can scarce help believing, that some connection has immemorially subsisted between the several nations who have adopted them.

    From all this, if it be satisfactorily proved, we may infer a general union or affinity between the most distinguished inhabitants of the primitive world.

    The Sanskrit language, whatever be its antiquity, is of a wonderful structure; more perfect than the Greek, more copious than the Latin, and more exquisitely refined than either, yet being to both of them a stronger affinity, both in the roots of verbs and in the forms of grammar, than could possibly have been produced by accident; so strong indeed, that no philologer could examine them all three, without believing them to have sprung from some common source … there is a similar reason, though not quite so forcible, for supposing that both the Gothick and the Celtick, though blended with a very different idiom, had the same origin with the Sanskrit; and the old Persian might be added to the same family.

    Meros is said by the Greeks to have been a mountain of India, on which their Dionysos was born.

    The names of the planets and Zodiacal stars, which the Arabs borrowed from the Greeks, but which we find in the oldest Indian records, were originally devised by the same ingenious and enterprising race, from whom both Greece and India were peopled; the race, who, as Dionysius describes them,
    “first assayed the deep, and wafted merchandize to coasts unknown, those, who digested first the starry choir, their motions marked, and called them by their names.”
    We see five races of men peculiarly distinguished … but we have reduced them to three, because we can discover no more, that essentially differ in language, religion, manners, and other known characteristicks : now those three races, how variously soever they may at present be dispersed and intermixed, must (if the preceding conclusions be justly drawn) have migrated originally from a central country.

    Three sons of the just and virtuous man, whose lineage was preserved from the general inundation, travelled, we are told, as they began to multiply, in three large divisions variously subdivided : the children of Ya’fet seem, from the traces of Sklavonian names, and the mention of their being enlarged, to have spread themselves far and wide, and to have produced the race, which, for want of a correct appellation, we call Tartarian; the colonies, formed by the sons of Ham and Shem, appear to have been nearly simultaneous; and, among those of the latter branch, we find so may names incontestably preserved at this hour in Arabia, that we cannot hesitate in pronouncing them the same people whom hitherto we have denominated Arabs; while the former branch, the most powerful and adventurous of whom were the progeny of Cush, Misr, and Rama (names remaining unchanged in Sanskrit, and highly revered by the Hindus), were, in all probability, the race, which I call Indian.

    Now these primeval events are described as having happened between the Oxus [Amu Dharya] and the Euphrates, the mountains of Caucasus and the borders of India.
    Last edited by sarabhanga; 15 July 2008 at 07:08 PM.

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    Post Re: Hindu Origins of Judeo-Christian Religion

    As the last ice-age ended (c. 10000 BC) the human practice of agriculture began in the ‘Fertile Crescent’ of the Middle East.

    Wheat (godhUma) first became domesticated (c. 9000 BC) in the upper reaches of the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers (Kurdistan), and barley (yava) was domesticated (c. 8000 BC) around the Jordon River. The domestication of goats (aja) and sheep (avis) began in the Fertile Crescent around 9000 BC, and cattle (gaus) and pigs (varAha or sUkara) had been domesticated in the Fertile Crescent by 7000 BC. And sun-dried mud bricks (iSTakA) were first used for building in ancient Jericho (c. 8000 BC).

    The first agricultural settlement known from the Indus region was at Mehrgarh (Baluchistan), beginning around 7000 BC, with similar strains of domesticated wheat and barley, goats, sheep, and cattle, and dwellings made with sun-dried mud bricks.

    Irrigation systems were first developed in Mesopotamia (c. 5500 BC).

    The Egyptian Sothic calendar was introduced in 4241 BC.

    And horses have apparently been domesticated numerous times (unlike the previously mentioned animals, each of which seems to be descended from just one or two original strains), but the first signs of domestication in horses appear from the Ukraine (c. 4000 BC).

    By about 3600 BC, urban settlements were developing in Egypt, Mesopotamia, and the Indus Valley. The wheel was apparently invented in Sumer, and sails in Egypt (c. 3500 BC); and the Egyptian hieroglyphic script, Sindhian logosyllabic script, and Sumerian pictographic script, were all established by 3200 BC.

    The first Egyptian Dynasty was founded by King Narmer (or Menes), perhaps as early as 3400 BC.

    And the brAhmaNAs record the vernal equinox in conjunction with rohinI, which points to a date around 3100 BC.

    And AryabhaTTa determined (in 499 AD) that the kaliyugam had begun 3600 years earlier, fixing the start as 3102 BC.

    The “Indo-European” or “Aryan” language group arose from a common ancestral tongue (“Proto-Indo-European” or “Proto-Aryan”) that existed perhaps as early as 4,000 BC, somewhere around the Aral and Caspian Seas. And the expansion of “Proto-Aryan” began about 3,000 BC, and it developed along two distinct lines ~ “Indo-Iranian” (“Indo-Aryan”) and “European”.

    saMskRtam is the form of sarasvatI, who is brAhmI, the vAc of brahmA.

    If we begin by accepting the idea that languages as apparently divergent as Gaelic and Gujarati are actually related, then we must begin by assuming that these languages have some common ancestral root. There is no reason to assume that this ancient parent tongue is still spoken anywhere exactly as it was originally, and the source must be inferred from the various commonalities of each language.

    Exactly as the relationships between different groups of living things may be inferred by considering their degree of similarity with regard to many varied characteristics, the same process may be applied to the problem of language relations to arrive at the most likely common ancestor ~ which in this case has been termed “Proto-Indo-European”.

    It is likely that the divergence began before the invention of writing, so it is unlikely that any example of the posited Proto-Indo-European will ever be discovered. But that should not prevent us from proposing the most likely nature of that tongue based on all kinds of other information.

    Even a cursory examination of any of the Indo-European languages will reveal many similarities ~ and Sanskrit seems to permeate all of the languages grouped as “Indo-European”.

    Blessed be the Grammarians!
    veda is “knowledge, sacred knowledge or lore, or knowledge of ritual”.

    vid (nominative singular vit, nominative plural vidaH) is “knowing or understanding” or “one who knows”.

    vid means “to know, understand, perceive, learn, become or be acquainted with, be conscious of, have a correct notion of, know how to, recognize or consider as, take for, declare to be, call, mind, notice, observe, remember, experience, feel, inquire about, make known, announce, report, tell, teach, or explain”.

    And the perfect form of vid is veda (first person “I know” or third person “he/she/it knows”).

    ya evam veda ~ “who knows thus” or “who has this knowledge”.

    From the Sanskrit vit to the English wit, there has been very little change.

    English and Old Saxon wit, Old Norse vit, Danish vid, Swedish vett, and German witz.

    All with the same meaning ~ “knowledge, understanding, intelligence, mind”.

    And the suggested proto-Aryan root is veid or vid, meaning “to see”, and thus “to know”.

    Sanskrit veda, Avestan vaeda, Greek oida, Doric woida ~ “I know”
    Bulgarian vidya ~ “I see”
    Latin videre, Russian videt, Greek idei, Polish widzeic ~ “to see”
    English wise, Old English and Old Swedish witan, German wissen, Old Russian vedat, Gothic weitan, Polish weidzeic, ~ “to know”
    And Old Irish fis (“vision”) or fuiss (“knowledge”).
    Sophisticated irrigation systems were established in the Indus region by 3000 BC, and rice (vrIhI or annam), which was first domesticated from perennial wild-types in the eastern foothills of the Himalaya, was introduced soon after. And the buffalo (mahiSa) was domesticated in the Indus region (c. 2500 BC).

    The Sindhu-Sarasvati civilization flourished throughout the 3rd millennium BC; the Sarasvati river was navigable to Ropar (near Chandigarh), and maritime trade was well established. The star Thuban was the perfect pole-star around 2700 BC, and it was the effective guide for navigators and the fixed reference point for astrologers throughout the 3rd millennium BC. There was continuous contact between the civilizations of the Nile, the Euphrates, and the Indus, and the ports of dvArakA (Gujarat) and sopAra (Sofale, just north of Mumbai) were renowned.

    The stepped pyramid of Djoser (the first Egyptian pyramid) was constructed c. 2750 BC. And Pharaoh Sahure (c. 2500 BC) organized the first recorded expedition to the Land of Punt (pañca) Ta Netjer (“God’s Land”, generally referring to the eastern region of the Sun’s rising).

    And c. 2350 BC, export trade from the Indus to Sumer and the Akkadian Empire (founded by Sargon in 2371 BC) was the major revenue source for Sindhu civilization.

    The vaidika ritual calendar was established c. 2300 BC.

    And the Ziggurat of Ur was constructed c. 2100 BC.

    And horse-drawn chariots with spoked wheels appeared in Mesopotamia and Egypt c. 2000 BC.

    By about 1900 BC, the Sarasvati was no longer flowing continuously, and Aryan nomads, with horses and wheeled chariots, arrived in Bactria and Margiana (the headwaters of the Oxus ~ vakshus or amu dhArya).

    A second wave of (somayAjin) Aryans swept across Bactria-Margiana c. 1700 BC, and Aryan movement into northwestern India began, with horses and chariots appearing for the first time in the Indus Valley.

    And the Canaanite script was developed around 1700 BC.
    Last edited by sarabhanga; 19 May 2008 at 01:54 AM.

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    Post Re: Hindu Origins of Judeo-Christian Religion

    The most famous expedition to Punt (primarily to obtain myrrh) occurred during the reign of Queen Hatshepsut (c. 1500 BC), when Punt was apparently ruled by King Parahu and Queen Ati (figured below).

    The port of dvArakA became submerged c. 1500 BC, and the compilation of the Rgveda began around the same time.

    Philological and linguistic evidence indicates that the Rgveda was composed between 1700 and 1100 BC, with the oldest elements reaching back to around 2000 BC (perhaps as early as 3000 BC).

    And the veda defines five domestic or sacrificial animals (the pañcapashu or “five tethered animals”), including men, cattle, horses, goats and sheep (but not pigs).

    Based on astronomical calculations (and evidence from the Puranas), the mahAbhArata yuddha occurred in 1397 BC.

    In Egypt (c. 1350 BC), Amenhotep IV (Akhenaten) established the new capital of Akhetaten and enforced the monotheistic worship of the Sun God (Ra). But after his death, the both Akhetaten and Akhenaten’s reforms were abandoned (1332 BC).

    The cerebral rakAra arises from agni and is associated with kAla.

    ra indicates “motion or vibration, and thus giving and taking”.

    ra is “fire, light, and love”.

    ram is the agni bIjam and the rakta bIjam.

    rakta is “impassioned, devoted, and beloved”.

    rakta is “fire”, and raktam is “blood”

    ram means “to set at rest, abide, make happy, and rejoice”.

    rama is the active imperative form of ram.

    And rama is “pleasing, delighting, rejoicing, and beloved”, indicating “joy and love”.
    From Subhash Kak ~ http://www.ece.lsu.edu/kak/akhena.pdf

    Scholars see in Akhenaten the beginning of the Judaic monotheistic tradition. Our examination of the facts shows that it might, equally plausibly, be a retelling of the improperly understood ideas, or ideas modified by the prevailing ones in their new land, in the journey to West Asia by the Mitannis. We are basing our conclusions not only on the connection to the Mitanni through Akhenaten’s wife but also on the pervasiveness of the Vedic concepts in West Asia as in the notion of 33 gods, the use of the disk to represent the sun exactly as is done in Vedic ritual, and the conception of the sun who superintends personal destiny which is perhaps the central idea of Vedic thought. We have also alluded to the similarity between the Vedic Yahvah and the Hebrew Yahweh and between other gods. These parallels are significant enough to demand a thorough investigation of the 2nd millennium BC connections between India and the West. The interaction between the Indic (Mitanni and other groups) and the Egyptian and West Asian can help us in understanding the evolution of the Western religions.
    A Hymn of praise of Her-aakhuti, the living one exalted in the Eastern Horizon in his name of Shu who is in the Aten, who liveth for ever and ever, the living and great Aten, he who is in the Set-Festival, the lord of the Circle, the Lord of the Disk, the Lord of heaven, the Lord of earth, the lord of the House of the Aten in Aakhut-Aten, [of] the King of the South and the North, who liveth in Truth, lord of the Two Lands, Nefer-Kheperu-Ra Ua-en-Ra, the son of Ra, who liveth in Truth, Lord of Crowns, Aakhun-Aten, great in the period of his life, [and of] the great royal woman whom he loveth, Lady of the Two Lands, Nefer-Neferu-Aten Nefertiti, who liveth in health and youth for ever and ever.

    He saith:

    Thy rising [is] beautiful in the horizon of heaven, O Aten, ordainer of life. Thou dost shoot up in the horizon of the East, thou fillest every land with thy beneficence. Thou art beautiful and great and sparkling, and exalted above every land. Thy arrows envelop everywhere all the lands which thou hast made.

    Thou art as Ra. Thou bringest [them] according to their number, thou subduest them for thy beloved son. Thou thyself art afar off, but thy beams are upon the earth; thou art in their faces, they [admire] thy goings. Thou settest in the horizon of the west, the earth is in darkness, in the form of death. Men lie down in a booth wrapped up in cloths, one eye cannot see its fellow. If all their possessions, which are under their heads, be carried away they perceive it not.

    Every lion emergeth from his lair, all the creeping things bite, darkness [is] a warm retreat. The land is in silence. He who made them hath set in his horizon. The earth becometh light, thou shootest up in the horizon, shining in the Aten in the day, thou scatterest the darkness. Thou sendest out thine arrows, the Two Lands make festival, [men] wake up, stand upon their feet, it is thou who raisest them up. [They] wash their members, they take [their apparel] and array themselves therein, their hands are [stretched out] in praise at thy rising, throughout the land they do their works.

    Beasts and cattle of all kinds settle down upon the pastures, shrubs and vegetables flourish, the feathered fowl fly about over their marshes, their feathers praising thy Ka. All the cattle rise up on their legs, creatures that fly and insects of all kinds spring into life, when thou risest up on them.

    The boats drop down and sail up the river, likewise every road openeth at thy rising, the fish in the river swim towards thy face, thy beams are in the depths of the Great Green [Sea]. Thou makest offspring to take form in women, creating seed in men. Thou makest the son to live in the womb of his mother, making him to be quiet that he crieth not; thou art a nurse in the womb, giving breath to vivify that which he hath made.

    [When] he droppeth from the womb … on the day of his birth [he] openeth his mouth in the [ordinary] manner, thou providest his sustenance. The young bird in the egg speaketh in the shell, thou givest breath to him inside it to make him to live. Thou makest for him his mature form so that he can crack the shell [being] inside the egg. He cometh forth from the egg, he chirpeth with all his might, when he hath come forth from it, he walketh on his two feet. O how many are the things which thou hast made! They are hidden from the face, O thou One God, like whom there is no other.

    Thou didst create the earth by thy heart, thou alone existing, men and women, cattle, beasts of every kind that are upon the earth, and that move upon feet, all the creatures that are in the sky and that fly with their wings, [and] the deserts of Syria and Kush, and the Land of Egypt. Thou settest every person in his place. Thou providest their daily food, every man having the portion allotted to him, [thou] dost compute the duration of his life. Their tongues are different in speech, their characteristics, and likewise their skins, giving distinguishing marks to the dwellers in foreign lands.

    Thou makest Hapi (the Nile) in the Tuat (Underworld), thou bringest it when thou wishest to make mortals to live, inasmuch as thou hast made them for thyself, their Lord who dost support them to the uttermost, O thou Lord of every land, thou shinest upon them, O Aten of the day, thou great one of majesty. Thou makest the life of all remote lands. Thou settest a Nile in heaven, which cometh down to them.

    It maketh a flood on the mountains like the Great Green Sea, it maketh to be watered their fields in their villages. How beneficent are thy plans, O Lord of Eternity! A Nile in heaven art thou for the dwellers in the foreign lands, and for all the beasts of the desert that go upon feet. Hapi cometh from the Tuat for the land of Egypt. Thy beams nourish every field; thou risest up [and] they live, they germinate for thee. Thou makest the Seasons to develop everything that thou hast made:

    The season of Pert (Nov. 16 - March 16) so that they may refresh themselves, and the season Heh (March 16 - Nov. 16) in order to taste thee. Thou hast made the heaven which is remote that thou mayest shine therein and look upon everything that thou hast made. Thy being is one, thou shinest among thy creatures as the Living Aten, rising, shining, departing afar off, returning. Thou hast made millions of creations from thy one self ~ towns and cities, villages, fields, roads and river. Every eye beholdeth thee confronting it. Thou art the Aten of the day at its zenith.

    At thy departure thine eye … thou didst create their faces so that thou mightest not see … One thou didst make … Thou art in my heart. There is no other who knoweth thee except thy son Nefer-kheperu-Ra Ua-en-Ra. Thou hast made him wise to understand thy plans [and] thy power. The earth came into being by thy hand, even as thou hast created them. Thou risest, they live; thou settest, they die. As for thee, there is duration of life in thy members, life is in thee. [All] eyes [gaze upon] thy beauties until thou settest, [when] all labours are relinquished.

    Thou settest in the West, thou risest, making to flourish … for the King. Every man who [standeth on his] foot, since thou didst lay the foundation of the earth, thou hast raised up for thy son who came forth from thy body, the King of the South and the North, Living in Truth, Lord of Crowns, Aakhun-Aten, great in the duration of his life [and for] the Royal Wife, great of majesty, Lady of the Two Lands, Nefer-neferu-Aten Nefertiti, living [and] young for ever and ever.
    Last edited by sarabhanga; 15 July 2008 at 07:08 PM.

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    Post Re: Hindu Origins of Judeo-Christian Religion

    Most chapters of the Rgveda represent the accumulated wisdom of just one RSi and his gotram, and those individual compilations were at some point compiled and perfectly arranged as a whole (which had long existed in all its parts, only the parts had not previously been collected together in a unified form ~ which is an important aspect of the dAsharAjñam and its solution).

    The Rgveda (and Hinduism as we know it) results from the merging of two great cultures.

    The northern AryAs were nomadic hunters and herdsmen; and their wanderings were at first limited to the wide shores of the Aral and Caspian Seas, but for some reason (perhaps environmental changes) they were displaced. And the southern drAvidAs ~ the dark (kRSNa) people ~ were highly civilized, at least in the huge urban areas that had developed around their fixed agricultural and trading communities.

    The two groups of people (one born on the northern slopes of the himAlaya, and the other born on the southern slopes) perhaps came into conflict when the Arya nomads began moving in numbers into the long established communities of the sindhu and shatadru, but there were great changes happening on the sindhu-sarasvatI plains, as some once mighty rivers dried up completely and others flooded suddenly with multiplied force, and whole cities were swallowed by the sea.

    The two traditions, languages, etc., were successfully merged over time, and it is partly due to this great ancient merging of apparently opposite cultures and natures that India and Hinduism are what they are today.

    From India’s point of view, the so-called Aryan Invasion is only a trans-Himalayan migration ~ when the sons of ikshvAku and vasiSTha came down from himavan onto the plains that had long been ruled by the sons of iDa and bhRgu.

    The Oxus (amU dhArA) flows directly from Afghanistan into the Aral Sea, and it has been an important trading and migration route for many thousands of years.

    And amU dhAryau is “that (twin) to be borne or carried, to be kept or remembered, to be upheld or maintained, to be observed or followed, or to be kept back or restrained”. And in its highest headwaters, the dhArAya pañca (Darya ye Panj) flows together with the sindhu.

    The amU dhAryau flows from himAlaya to samudra. However, while there is only one himAlaya range, it has two flanks, with opposed river systems flowing into two seas ~ the sindhu flowing, via the pañcApas, to the Arabhya samudra; and the amU dhArA (vakshus or cakshus), via the dhArA ya pañca, to the ara samudra.

    sanAtana dharma comes down to us by the flow of gaÑgA. But the wise ones know gaÑgA as iLA (or iDA), and they understand that the eternal flow from pArvatI himajA radiates in ALL directions from the himAlaya to the seas.

    There is little objection to including the regions now covered by Pakistan and Afghanistan as integral to ancient India; and if the neighbouring areas of Tadzhikistan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan, are also included, then the Aryan “Invasion” Theory is merely suggesting an ancient radiation of Aryan culture from the north-western corner of Arya-desha.

    Horses were domesticated around the Aral Sea long ago, but they were apparently unknown in the Indus Valley until about 1800 BC. The Rgveda, however, represents a perfect fusion of the ancient wisdom of both cultures. And by the time the full Rgveda was fixed (all 10 books, exactly as we know them today), which seems to have occurred somewhere between 1400 and 1200 BC, horses were intrinsic to the shared culture of both regions.
    Last edited by sarabhanga; 21 June 2008 at 11:15 PM.

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    Post Re: Hindu Origins of Judeo-Christian Religion

    Whether traveling overland by ox-cart, or on an ancient vessel at sea, the rate of progress would not be much different to walking. And given 11 hours traveling at about 5 km per hour, a full day’s journey would be about 55 km.

    The distance from the Euphrates to the Indus, by land or sea, is about 2,200 km, which would take forty days to complete ~ 40 days in the wilderness, or 40 days in the flood, and kRSNa’s dvArakA is reached, and the wisdom (and other riches) of the sindhu-sarasvatI may be obtained.


    Genesis 7:
    And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

    And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
    Genesis 8:
    And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:

    And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.
    Genesis 50:
    And Joseph commanded his servants the physicians to embalm his father: and the physicians embalmed Israel.

    And forty days were fulfilled for him; for so are fulfilled the days of those which are embalmed.
    Exodus 16:
    And the children of Israel did eat manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited; they did eat manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan.
    Exodus 24:
    And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.
    Exodus 34:
    And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.

    And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
    Numbers 13:
    And they returned from searching of the land after forty days.

    And they went and came to Moses, and to Aaron, and to all the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the wilderness of Paran, to Kadesh; and brought back word unto them, and unto all the congregation, and shewed them the fruit of the land.

    And they told him, and said, We came unto the land whither thou sentest us, and surely it floweth with milk and honey; and this is the fruit of it.

    Nevertheless the people be strong that dwell in the land, and the cities are walled, and very great.

    Direct communication between Egypt and the Indus Valley was likely only by sea, although the voyage would have been a considerable undertaking. And the famed expeditions to God’s Land, the mysterious Land of Punt (cf. pañca ~ as the pañca Apas or ‘Punjab’), represent the most likely means for that contact to have occurred.

    The Egyptian naval expeditions to Punt always began in the Red Sea, although the precise destination remains obscure. Most commentators have assumed Africa (Ethiopia, Sudan, or Somalia) as the location of Punt, but a final destination in India makes more sense to me.

    The voyage through the Red Sea and along the coast to the eastern tip of the Arabian Peninsula covers about 4,500 km (requiring about 80 days). And from there, the shortest route would be due east, across about 950 km of open sea. Coastal navigation is dangerous at night, but sailing across open waters could easily be continued day and night (thus requiring only eight days without sight of land). With confident navigation and sailing continuously, the full distance of almost 5,500 km might be covered in about 45 days.


    Queen Hatshepsut’s Expedition to Punt
    Sailing in the sea, beginning the goodly way toward God’s-Land, journeying in peace to the land of Punt, by the army of the Lord of the Two Lands, according to the command of the Lord of Gods, Amun, lord of Thebes, presider over Karnak, in order to bring for him the marvels of every country, because he so much loves the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, [Matkara (Hatshepsut)], for his father Amun-Ra, lord of heaven, lord of earth, more than the other kings who have been in this land forever.

    [The arrival] of the king’s-messenger in God’s-Land, together with the army which is behind him, before the chiefs of Punt; dispatched with every good thing from the court, L. P. H., for Hathor, mistress of Punt; for the sake of the life, prosperity, and health of her majesty.

    The coming of the chiefs of Punt, doing obeisance, with bowed head, to receive this army of the king; they give praise to the lord of gods, Amun-Ra …

    They say, as they pray for peace: “Why have ye come thither unto this land, which the people know not? Did ye come down upon the ways of heaven, or did ye sail upon the waters, upon the sea of God’s-Land? Have ye trodden [the way of] Ra? Lo, as for the King of Egypt, is there no way to his majesty, that we may live by the breath which he gives?”

    The chief of Punt, Parahu.

    His wife, Ati.

    The ass which bears his wife.

    Pitching the tent of the king’s messenger and his army, in the myrrh-terraces of Punt on the side of the sea, in order to receive the chiefs of this country. There are offered to them bread, beer, wine, meat, fruit, everything found in Egypt, according to that which was commanded in the court, L. P. H.

    Reception of the tribute of the chief of Punt, by the king’s messenger.

    The coming of the chief of Punt bearing tribute at the side of the sea before the king’s [messenger] …

    [Look to] your feet, ye people! Behold! the load is very heavy!

    Prosperity [be] with [us], for the sake of the myrrh tree in the midst of God’s-Land, for the house of Amun; there is the place [where] it shall be made to grow for Matkara, in his temple, according to command.

    The loading of the ships very heavily with marvels of the country of Punt; all goodly fragrant woods of God’s-Land, heaps of myrrh-resin, with fresh myrrh trees, with ebony and pure ivory, with green gold of Amu, with cinnamon wood, khesyt wood, with ihmut-incense, sonter-incense, eye-cosmetic, with apes, monkeys, dogs, and with skins of the southern panther, with natives and their children. Never was brought the like of this for any king who has been since the beginning.

    Sailing, arriving in peace, journeying to Thebes with joy of heart, by the army of the Lord of the Two Lands, with the chiefs of this country behind them. They have brought that, the like of which was not brought for other kings, being marvels of Punt, because of the greatness of the fame of this revered god, Amun-Ra, Lord of Thebes.

    They say as they pray for peace from her majesty: “Hail to thee, king of Egypt, Ra, who shines like the sun, your sovereign, mistress of heaven … Thy name reaches as far as the circuit of heaven, the fame of [Matkara] encircles the [sea] …”

    The King himself, the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Matkara; presentation of the marvels of Punt, the treasures of God’s-Land, together with the gifts of the countries of the South, with the impost of the wretched Kush, the baskets of the Negro-land, to Amun, lord of Thebes, presider over Karnak, for the sake of the life, prosperity, and health of the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Matkara, that she may live, abide, and her heart be joyful; that she may rule the Two Lands like Ra, forever.

    Thirty-one fresh myrrh trees, brought as marvels of Punt for the majesty of this god, Amun, lord of Thebes; never was seen the like since the beginning.

    Electrum; eye-cosmetic; throw-sticks of the Puntites; ebony; ivory, [shells].

    A southern panther alive, captured for her majesty in the countries.

    The king himself, the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Matkara. Taking the measure of the electrum, laying the hand on the … of the heaps, first instance of doing the good things. Measuring of the fresh myrrh unto Amun, lord of Thebes, lord of heaven, the first of the harvest … of the marvels of the countries of Punt. The lord of Khmunu (Thoth) records them in writing; Sefkhet counts the numbers. Her majesty herself, is acting with her two hands, the best of myrrh is upon all her limbs, her fragrance is divine dew, her odor is mingled with Punt, her skin is gilded with electrum, shining as do the stars in the midst of the festival-hall, before the whole land. There is rejoicing by all the people; they give praise to the lord of gods, they laud Matkara in her divine qualities, because of the greatness of the marvels which have happened for her. Never did the like happen under any gods who were before, since the beginning. May she be given life, like Ra, forever.

    Heaps of myrrh in great quantities.

    Measuring the fresh myrrh, in great quantities, for Amun, lord of Thebes; marvels of the countries of Punt, treasures of God’s-Land, for the sake of the life, prosperity and health …

    Recording in writing, reckoning the numbers, summing up in millions, hundreds of thousands, tens of thousands, thousands and hundreds; reception of the marvels of Punt, for Amun-Ra, lord of Thebes, lord of heaven.

    The balances, accurate and true, of Thoth, which the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, [Matka]ra, made for her father, Amun, lord of Thebes, in order to weigh the silver, gold, lapis lazuli, malachite, and every splendid costly stone, for the sake of the life, prosperity, and health of her majesty …

    Weighing the gold and electrum, the impost of the southern countries, for Amun-Ra, lord of Thebes, … presider over Karnak …

    Recording in writing, reckoning the numbers, summing up in millions, hundreds of thousands, tens of thousands, thousands, and hundreds. Reception of the marvels of the South countries, for Amun, lord of Thebes, presider over Karnak.

    Horus: Mighty in Ka’s; Favorite of the Two Goddesses: Fresh in Years; Golden Horus: Divine in Diadems; King of Upper and Lower Egypt: Matkara, … of Amun, whom he loves, who is upon his throne, for whom he has made to flourish the inheritance of the Two Lands, the kingdom of the South and North, to whom he hath given that which the sun encompasses, that which Seb and Nut enclose. She hath no enemies among the Southerns, she hath no foes among the Northerns; the heavens and every country which the god hath created, they all labor for her. They come to her with fearful heart, their chiefs with bowed head, their gifts upon their back. They present to her their children that there may be given to them the breath of life, because of the greatness of the fame of her father, Amun, who hath set all lands beneath her sandals.

    The king himself, the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Matkara. The majesty of the court made supplication at the steps of the lord of [gods]; a command was heard from the great throne, an oracle of the god himself, that the ways to Punt should be searched out, that the highways to the Myrrh-terraces should be penetrated: “I will lead the army on water and on land, to bring marvels from God’s-Land for this god, for the fashioner of her beauty.” It was done, according to all that the majesty of this revered god commanded, according to the desire of her majesty, in order that she might be given life, stability, and satisfaction, like Ra, forever.

    Utterance of Amun-Ra, lord of Thebes: “Welcome! my sweet daughter, my favorite, the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Matkara, who makes my beautiful monuments, who purifies the seat of the great ennead of gods for my dwelling, as a memorial of her love. Thou art the king, taking possession of the Two Lands, Khnemet-Amun, Hatshepsut, great in oblations, pure in food-offerings. Thou satisfiest my heart at all times; I have given thee all life and satisfaction from me, all stability from me, all health from me, all joy from me, I have given to thee all lands and all countries, wherein thy heart is glad. I have long intended them for thee, and the aeons shall behold them until those myriads of years [of usefulness which I have thought to spend]. I have given to thee all Punt as far as the lands of the gods of God’s-Land.”

    “No one trod the Myrrh-terraces, which the people knew not; it was heard of from mouth to mouth by hearsay of the ancestors … The marvels brought thence under thy fathers, the Kings of Lower Egypt, were brought from one to another, and since the time of the ancestors of the Kings of Upper Egypt, who were of old, as a return for many payments; none reaching them except thy carriers.”

    “But I will cause thy army to tread them, I have led them on water and on land, to explore the waters of inaccessible channels, and I have reached the Myrrh-terraces.”

    “It is a glorious region of God’s-Land; it is indeed my place of delight. I have made it for myself, in order to [divert] my heart, together with Mut, Hathor, Ureret, mistress of Punt, the mistress, ‘Great in Sorcery’, mistress of all gods. They took myrrh as they wished, they loaded the vessels to their hearts’ content, with fresh myrrh trees, every good gift of this country, Puntites whom the people know not, Southerns of God’s-Land. I conciliated them by love that they might give to thee praise, because thou art a god, because of thy fame in the countries. I know [them], I am their wise lord … I am the begetter, Amun-Ra; my daughter, who binds the lords, is the king [Matkara]. I have begotten her for myself. I am thy father, who sets thy fear among the Nine Bows, while they come in peace to all gods. They have brought all the marvels, every beautiful thing of God’s-Land, for which thy majesty sent them: heaps of gum of myrrh, and enduring trees bearing fresh myrrh, united in the festival-hall, to be seen of the lord of the gods. May thy majesty cause them to grow … my temple, in order to delight my heart among them. My name is before the gods, thy name is before all the living, forever. Heaven and earth are flooded with incense; odors are in the Great House. Mayest thou offer them to me, pure and cleansed, in order to express the ointment for the divine limbs, to offer myrrh, to make ointment, to make festive my statue with necklaces, while I am making libations for thee. My heart is glad because of seeing thee.”

    Behold, it was commanded, as follows: “They shall give the court, L. P. H., to the hereditary prince, count, wearer of the royal seal, sole companion, chief treasurer, Nehsi, to dispatch the army [to] Punt.”

    Year 9, occurred the sitting in the audience-hall, the king’s appearance with the atef-crown, upon the great throne of electrum, in the midst of the splendors of his palace. The grandees, the companions of the court, came to hear; a command was brought, a royal edict to his dignitaries, the divine fathers, the companions of the king, the grandees:

    “I shine forever in your faces through that which my father hath desired. Truly, it was greatly my desire in doing, that I should make great him that begat me; and in assigning to my father, that I should make splendid for him all his offerings; that which my fathers, the ancestors knew not, I am doing as the Great One [did] to the Lord of Eternity; I am adding increase to that which was formerly done. I will cause it to be said to posterity: ‘How beautiful is she, through whom this has happened’, because I have been so very excellent to him, and the heart of my heart has been replete with that which is due to him. I am his splendor [on high, and in the nether world]. I have entered into the qualities of the august god, he hath opened … He hath recognized my excellence, that I speak a great thing [which] I set among you; it shall shine for you upon the land of the living … ye may grasp my virtues. I am the god, the beginning of being, nothing fails that goes out of my mouth, beloved … that which he desired. Ye shall fulfil according to that which I have exacted. Your lifetime is the life [that is] in my mouth … for the future. I have given a command of my majesty that the offerings of him who begat me should be made splendid, that the ointment should be increased … of prime ointment of the pure ox, in order to supply with offerings …”

    “… [a decree of] my majesty commanding to send to the Myrrh-terraces, to explore his ways [for him], to learn his circuit, to open his highways, according to the command of my father, Amun … for choice ointment, in order to express ointment for the divine limbs, which I owed to the lord of gods, in order to establish the laws of his house. Trees were taken up in God’s-Land, and set in the ground in [Egypt] … for the king of the gods. They were brought bearing myrrh therein for expressing ointment for the divine limbs, which I owed to the lord of Gods.”

    Said my majesty: “I will cause you to know that which is commanded me, I have hearkened to my father … that which he hath ~ commanding me to establish for him a Punt in his house, to plant the trees of God’s-Land beside his temple, in his garden, according as he commanded. It was done, in order to endow the offering which I owed … I was [not] neglectful of that which he needed. Ye shall fulfil according to my regulations without transgression of that which my mouth hath given. He hath desired me as his favorite; I know all that he loveth; he is a god … his desire and that which he loveth … I have made for him a Punt in his garden, just as he commanded me, for Thebes. It is large for him, he walks abroad in it.”

    … Hathor, mistress of myrrh; she hath opened to thee her two arms with resin …
    Last edited by sarabhanga; 15 July 2008 at 07:08 PM.

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    Post Re: Hindu Origins of Judeo-Christian Religion

    The Fifth Dynasty Pharaoh Suhure’s expedition to Punt (c. 2730 BC) returned with 80,000 measures of myrrh, and 6,000 measures of electrum, but little more is known.

    The ancient tradition was revived in the Eighteenth Dynasty by Queen Hatshepsut (c. 1473 – 1458 BC), by which time the sarasvatI nadI had disappeared, the sindhu civilization (which was thriving at the time of Suhure) was in decline, and northern Arya culture was yet integrating with the southern sindhu culture on the pañcApa plains.

    The 18th Dynasty began with Ahmose (c. 1580 – 1557 BC) and his wife Nefertari, and their son Amenhotep married his sister Meritamon. Amenhotep’s daughter Aahmes married Thutmose, and their daughter Hatshepsut married her step-brother Thutmose II. And Hatshepsut’s offspring did not inherit the throne, with the subsequent Pharaoh Thutmose III being descended from his father’s second wife, Aset ~ although Hatshepsut was apparently coregent with Thutmose III for most of his reign.

    After some generations of regular succession, Amenhotep III (c. 1388 – 1351 BC) was succeeded by his son Amenhotep IV or Akhenaten (c. 1352 – 1334 BC), whose consort was Nefertiti. And Akhenaten was briefly succeeded by his daughter Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten (Meritaten) who ruled Egypt for just two years and one month (1335 – 1333 BC), before Amarna (amaraNam ~ “the not dying”) Akhetaten was abandoned and the throne returned to Thebes.

    Punt Ta Netjer ~ the sacred land of Punt

    pañcan indicates “the outspread hand with its five fingers”.

    pañcatA is “the fivefold state” indicating “an aggregate or a collection of five things (especially the five elements ~ earth, air, fire, water, and ether ~ and dissolution into them)”.

    paÑka is “mud, earth, or clay”.

    paÑkatA is “the nature or property of mud”.

    pAnta is “a drink or beverage”.

    pAntatA is “the quality of refreshment”.

    pAntha is “a wanderer or traveler”, especially indicating “the sun (as the wanderer in the sky)”.

    pAnthatA is “the state or property of a wanderer”.

    puNT means “to speak or to shine”

    And in the periphrastic future tense, the active third person singular puNTTA predicts that “he/she/it will speak or shine”.

    tA is “impassableness, inaccessibility, or inviolability”.

    nadIja is “river-born, or coming from a river”, especially indicating yAvanAla-shara (a kind of reed resembling sorghum) ~ bhISma nadIja fought against the pañca pANDavas in the mahAbhArata yuddha.

    And thus, if the Egyptian idea of “Punt Ta Netjer” is considered as derived from Sanskrit sources, the following (entirely appropriate) connotations arise:

    pañcatA nadIjA ~ “the five elements born from a river”

    paÑkatA nadIjA ~ “muddiness coming from a river”

    pAntatA nadIjA ~ “refreshment coming from a river”

    pAnthatA nadIjA ~ “river-born wandering/pilgrimage”

    puNTTA nadIja ~ “coming from the river, he/she/it will shine/speak”.

    Near the mouth of the Indus, there is a place famed for its sacred mud ~ Mata-na-Madh, or simply Madh (or Murr).

    mAtAnam-Adhi ~ “the place of the royal court of the divine mother” ~ i.e. AshApuram, where AshApura-guggulum (bdellium, a fragrant resin used as a perfume and medicament) may be found.

    mAtAnam-ADhya ~ “the opulent royal court of the divine mother”.

    mAtAnA-mAdhava ~ “the queen of the mAdhavas (i.e. of the yAdavas)” or “the queen representing kRSNa”.

    And the mAtA nAma “Adi” ~ atti (“elder sister”), Adi (“the first”), Adhi (“a foundation or pledge”), ADhya (“abundance or opulence”) ~ would thus appear to be the queen of the yAdavas.

    The inscriptions of the expedition to Punt by Queen Hatshepsut or Matkara (mAtRkA ~ “the divine mother”, “the wife of aryamA”, or “a nurse”) record the names of Queen Ati and King Parahu ~ parahan (“foe-killer” ~ a prince mentioned in the Mahabharata), paraloka (“the other world”), pArada (“quicksilver”), pAradAs (the Parthians of Gedrosia ~Baluchustan), parada (“delivering” or “leading across” ~ Dadu, c. 160 km upstream from Hyderabad).

    And another two Lords of Punt are recorded ~ Irem (IriNa or IraNa ~ the Rann of Kutch) and Nemyew (nemiyahu ~ “mighty nemi” or ariSTanemi, the jaina tIrthaMkara and cousin of shrI kRSNa, the lord of raivata, gIrNara girinAra or Mt Girnar; or “son of nemi”) the chiefs of kaccha and saurASTra.

    And so, in the record of Hatshepsut’s expedition, there are four named representatives of Punt:

    Irem, the chief of the IriNAs of kaccha (for the fragrant earth of kAcchI and AshApura-guggulum); and
    Nemyew, the chief of saurASTra (renowned for frankincense); and
    Parahu, the chief of the pAradAs (for electrum, etc.); and
    Ati, the yAdava queen recalled as AshApuramAti.


    From the Periplus Maris Erythraei (by an anonymous Egyptian merchant, c. 46 AD) :

    Beyond the Ommanitic region there is a country also of the Parsidae, of another Kingdom, and the bay of Gedrosia … This country yields much wheat, wine, rice and dates; but along the coast there is nothing but bdellium.

    Beyond this region, the continent making a wide curve from the east across the depths of the bays, there follows the coast district of Scythia, which lies above toward the north; the whole marshy; from which flows down the river Sinthus [Sindhu], the greatest of all the rivers that flow into the Erythraean Sea, bringing down an enormous volume of water; so that a long way out at sea, before reaching this country, the water of the ocean is fresh from it … This river has seven mouths, very shallow and marshy, so that they are not navigable, except the one in the middle; at which by the shore, is the market-town, Barbaricum. Before it there lies a small island, and inland behind it is the metropolis of Scythia, Minnagara; it is subject to Parthian princes who are constantly driving each other out.

    The ships lie at anchor at Barbaricum, but all their cargoes are carried up to the metropolis by the river, to the King. There are imported into this market a great deal of thin clothing, and a little spurious; figured linens, topaz, coral, storax, frankincense, vessels of glass, silver and gold plate, and a little wine. On the other hand there are exported costus, bdellium, lycium, nard, turquoise, lapis lazuli, Seric skins, cotton cloth, silk yarn, and indigo. And sailors set out thither with the Indian Etesian winds, about the month of July, that is Epiphi: it is more dangerous then, but through these winds the voyage is more direct, and sooner completed.

    Beyond the river Sinthus there is another gulf, not navigable, running in toward the north; it is called Eirinon [Rann of Kutch]; its parts are called separately the small gulf and the great; in both parts the water is shallow, with shifting sandbanks occurring continually and a great way from shore; so that very often when the shore is not even in sight, ships run aground, and if they attempt to hold their course they are wrecked. A promontory stands out from this gulf, curving around from Eirinon toward the East, then South, then West, and enclosing the gulf called Baraca [Dwarka, i.e. the Gulf of Kutch], which contains seven islands. Those who come to the entrance of this bay escape it by putting about a little and standing further out to sea; but those who are drawn inside into the gulf of Baraca are lost; for the waves are high and very violent, and the sea is tumultuous and foul, and has eddies and rushing whirlpools. The bottom is in some places abrupt, and in others rocky and sharp, so that the anchors lying there are parted, some being quickly cut off, and others chafing on the bottom. As a sign of these places to those approaching from the sea there are serpents, very large and black; for at the other places on this coast and around Barygaza [Bharuch], they are smaller, and in color bright green, running into gold.

    Beyond the gulf of Baraca is that of Barygaza [i.e. the Gulf of Cambay] and the coast of the country of Ariaca [Aryaka], which is the beginning of the Kingdom of Nambanus and of all India. That part of it lying inland and adjoining Scythia is called Abiria, but the coast is called Syrastrene [Saurastra]. It is a fertile country, yielding wheat and rice and sesame oil and clarified butter, cotton and the Indian cloths made therefrom, of the coarser sorts. Very many cattle are pastured there, and the men are of great stature and black in color. The metropolis of this country is Minnagara, from which much cotton cloth is brought down to Barygaza. In these places there remain even to the present time signs of the expedition of Alexander, such as ancient shrines, walls of forts and great wells. The sailing course along this coast, from Barbaricum to the promontory called Papica, opposite Barygaza, and before Astacampra, is of three thousand stadia.

    Beyond this there is another gulf exposed to the sea-waves, running up toward the north, at the mouth of which there is an island called Bavones: at its innermost part there is a great river called Mais [Mahi]. Those sailing to Barygaza pass across this gulf, which is three hundred stadia in width, leaving behind to their left the island just visible from their tops toward the east, straight to the very mouth of the river of Barygaza; and this river is called Nammadus [Narmada].

    This gulf is very narrow to Barygaza and very hard to navigate for those coming from the ocean; this is the case with both the right and left passages, but there is a better passage through the left. For on the right at the very mouth of the gulf there lies a shoal, along and narrow, and full of rocks, called Herone, facing the village of Cammoni; and opposite this on the left projects the promontory that lies before Astacampra, which is called Papica, and is a hard anchorage because of the strong current setting in around it and because the anchors are cut off, the bottom being rough and rocky. And even if the entrance to the gulf is made safely, the mouth of the river at Barygaza is found with difficulty, because the shore is very low and cannot be made out until you are close upon it. And when you have found it the passage is difficult because of the shoals at the mouth of the river.

    Because of this, native fishermen in the King’s service, stationed at the very entrance in well-manned large boats called trappaga and cotymba, go up the coast as far as Syrastrene, from which they pilot vessels to Barygaza. And they steer them straight from the mouth of the bay between the shoals with their crews; and they tow them to fixed stations, going up with the beginning of the flood, and lying through the ebb at anchorages and in basins. These basins are deeper places in the river as far as Barygaza; which lies by the river, about three hundred stadia up from the mouth.

    Now the whole country of India has very many rivers, and very great ebb and flow of the tides; increasing at the new moon, and at the full moon for three days, and falling off during the intervening days of the moon. But about Barygaza it is much greater, so that the bottom is suddenly seen, and now parts of the dry land are sea, and now it is dry where ships were sailing just before; and the rivers, under the inrush of the flood tide, when the whole force of the sea is directed against them, are driven upwards more strongly against their natural current, for many stadia.

    For this reason entrance and departure of vessels is very dangerous to those who are inexperienced or who come to this market-town for the first time. For the rush of waters at the incoming tide is irresistible, and the anchors cannot hold against it; so that large ships are caught up by the force of it, turned broadside on through the speed of the current, and so driven on the shoals and wrecked; and smaller boats are over-turned; and those that have been turned aside among the channels by the receding waters at the ebb, are left on their sides, and if not held on an even keel by props, the flood tide comes upon them suddenly and under the first head of the current they are filled with water. For there is so great force in the rush of the sea at the new moon, especially during the flood tide at night, that if you begin the entrance at the moment when the waters are still, on the instant there is borne to you at the mouth of the river, a noise like the cries of an army heard from afar; and very soon the sea itself comes rushing in over the shoals with a hoarse roar.

    Inland from this place and to the east, is the city called Ozene [Ujjain], formerly a royal capital; from this place are brought down all things needed for the welfare of the country about Barygaza, and many things for our trade: agate and carnelian, Indian muslins and mallow cloth, and much ordinary cloth. Through this same region and from the upper country is brought the spikenard that comes through Poclais; that is, the Caspapyrene and Paropanisene and Cabolitic and that brought through the adjoining country of Scythia; also costus and bdellium.

    There are imported into this market-town, wine, Italian preferred, also Laodicean and Arabian; copper, tin, and lead; coral and topaz; thin clothing and inferior sorts of all kinds; bright-colored girdles a cubit wide; storax, sweet clover, flint glass, realgar, antimony, gold and silver coin, on which there is a profit when exchanged for the money of the country; and ointment, but not very costly and not much. And for the King there are brought into those places very costly vessels of silver, singing boys, beautiful maidens for the harem, fine wines, thin clothing of the finest weaves, and the choicest ointments. There are exported from these places spikenard, costus, bdellium, ivory, agate and carnelian, lycium, cotton cloth of all kinds, silk cloth, mallow cloth, yarn, long pepper and such other things as are brought here from the various market-towns. Those bound for this market-town from Egypt make the voyage favorably about the month of July, that is Epiphi.

    This whole voyage as above described, from Cana and Eudaemon Arabia, they used to make in small vessels, sailing close around the shores of the gulfs; and Hippalus was the pilot who by observing the location of the ports and the conditions of the sea, first discovered how to lay his course straight across the ocean. For at the same time when with us the Etesian winds are blowing, on the shores of India the wind sets in from the ocean, and this southwest wind is called Hippalus [Hypalos ~ the southwestern monsoon wind], from the name of him who first discovered the passage across.
    Last edited by sarabhanga; 14 June 2008 at 01:03 AM.

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    Post Re: Hindu Origins of Judeo-Christian Religion

    The Sumerians referred to the Sindhu region as Mehluha (mahAloham ~ “great iron” or “magnetic iron”), acting as a veritable magnet for traders, and requiring a compass to find it.

    And malhavat is “as if having a dew-lap”, as the coast of saurASTra hangs down from the throat of the sindhu.

    But Mehluha is synonymous with foreign language, and fortune hunters from many lands, and the Sanskrit terms mleccha and barbara both refer to indistinct speech and non-Aryan nature ~ thus the later name of “Emporium Barbaricum” (and barbaram particularly refers to myrrh resin and yellow sandalwood).

    And barbara (or varvara) is very likely recalled in the port town of Veraval, nearby the first jyotirliÑga of somanAtham, and the site of lord kRSNa’s mortal wounding by a hunter’s arrow.

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    Post Re: Hindu Origins of Judeo-Christian Religion

    The ancient name of saurASTra was kushavat, and kRSNa’s dvArakA was originally known as kushasthalI.

    Rgveda 3.26
    vaishvAnarammanasAgniM nicAyyA haviSmanto anuSatyaM svarvidam |
    sudAnuM devaM rathiraM vasUyavo gIrbhI raNvaM kushikAso havAmahe || 1 ||


    Revering in our heart agni vaishvAnara, the finder of the light, whose promises are true,
    The liberal, gladsome, car-borne god, we kushikAs invoke him with oblation, seeking wealth with songs.

    taM shubhramagnimavase havAmahe vaishvAnarammAtarishvAnamukthyam |
    bRhaspatimmanuSo devatAtaye vipraM shrotAramatithiM raghuSyadam || 2 ||


    That agni, bright, vaishvAnara, we invoke for help, and mAtarishvan worthy of the song of praise;
    Brhaspati for man’s observance of the gods, the singer prompt to hear, the swiftly-moving guest.

    ashvo na krandañjanibhiH samidhyate vaishvAnaraH kushikebhiryugeyuge |
    sa no agniH suvIryaM svashvyaM dadhAtu ratnamamRteSu jAgRviH || 3 ||


    Age after age, vaishvAnara, neighing like a horse, is kindled with the women by the kushikAs.
    May agni, he who wakes among immortal gods, grant us heroic strength and wealth in noble steeds.

    pra yantu vAjAstaviSIbhiragnayaH shubhe sammishlAH pRSatIrayukshata |
    bRhaduksho maruto vishvavedasaH pra vepayanti parvatAM adAbhyAH || 4 ||


    Let them go forth, the strong, as flames of fire with might: gathered for victory they have yoked their spotted deer.
    Pourers of floods, the marutas, masters of all wealth, they who can never be conquered, make the mountains shake.

    agnishriyo maruto vishvakRSTaya A tveSamugramava Imahe vayam |
    te svAnino rudriyA varSanirNijaH siMhA na heSakratavaH sudAnavaH || 5 ||


    The marutas, friends of men, are glorious as the fire: their mighty and resplendent succour we implore.
    Those storming sons of rudra clothed in robes of rain, boon-givers of good gifts, roar as the lions roar.

    vrAtaMvrAtaM gaNaMgaNaM sushastibhiragnerbhAmammarutAmoja Imahe |
    pRSadashvAso anavabhrarAdhaso gantAro yajñaM vidatheSu dhIraaH || 6 ||


    We, band on band and troop following troop, entreat with fair lauds agni’s splendour and the marutas’ might,
    With spotted deer for steeds, with wealth that never fails, they, wise ones, come to sacrifice at our gatherings.

    agnirasmi janmanA jAtavedA ghRtamme cakshuramRtamma Asan |
    arkastridhAtU rajaso vimAno ajasro gharmo havirasmi nAma || 7 ||


    Agni am I who know, by birth, all creatures: mine eye is butter, in my mouth is nectar.
    I am light threefold, measurer of the region, exhaustless heat am I, named burnt-oblation.

    tribhiH pavitrairapupoddhyarkaM hRdA matiM jyotiranu prajAnan |
    varSiSThaM ratnamakRta svadhAbhirAdiddyAvApRthivI paryapashyat || 8 ||


    Bearing in mind a thought with light accordant, he purified the sun with three refinings;
    By his own nature gained the highest treasure, and looked abroad over the earth and heaven.

    shatadhAramutsamakshIyamANaM vipashcitampitaraM vaktvAnAm |
    meLimmadantampitrorupasthe taM rodasI pipRtaM satyavAcam || 9 ||


    The spring that fails not, with a hundred streamlets, father inspired of prayers that men should utter,
    The sparkler, joyous in his parents’ bosom, him, the truth-speaker, sate ye, earth and heaven.


    kuS means “to tear asunder, pinch, force or draw out, extract, knead, test, gnaw, or nibble”.

    kusha is “a grass with long pointed stalks (Poa cynosuroides)” or “a rope (made of kusha grass) used for connecting the yoke of a plough with the pole”.

    kushA is “a ploughshare”, and kusham is “water”.

    kusha is “a son of rAma”.

    And kusha may also be “wicked, depraved, mad, or inebriate”.

    kushavat is “covered with kusha grass”, and kushAvatI is “the residence of kusha (the son of rAma)”.

    kushala (also kuSala or kusala) is “right, proper, suitable, good, well, healthy, in good condition, prosperous, fit, competent, able, skilful, clever, or conversant”.

    kushalam is “welfare, well-being, prosperous condition, happiness, benevolence, virtue, cleverness, competence, or ability”.

    kushalavat is “well or healthy”, and kushalavAc is “eloquent”.

    The kushalAs are the “brAhmaNAs of kushadvIpa”, and the kushalau represent the ashvinau.

    The kushalavau or kushIlavau are “the two sons of rAma (kusha and lava)”.

    kushi is “an owl”, and kushika is “squint-eyed”, and kushin is “furnished with kusha grass”.

    kushikas is “a ploughshare”, or “the father of vishvAmitra”, and the kushikAs are his descendants.

    kushIlam is “a bad character”, and kushIlava is “a bard, herald, actor, mime, or newsmonger”, and kushI or kushIlava are names of vAlmIki, who raised kusha and lava (or lavaNa) as his own, and taught them to repeat the rAmAyaNa at assemblies.

    lava is “cutting, reaping, mowing, plucking, gathering, loss, destruction, or sport”.

    lAva is “cutting, cutting off, plucking, reaping, gathering, cutting to pieces, destroying, or killing”.

    lavana is “a cutter or reaper”, and lavanam is “the act of cutting, reaping , mowing, etc.” or “an implement for cutting, a sickle, knife, etc.”.

    lavaNa is “saline, salt, briny, tasteful, graceful, handsome, or beautiful”, and lavaNA is “lustre, grace, or beauty”.

    From Genesis 10:

    And the sons of Ham: Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.
    And the sons of Cush: Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtechah.
    And the sons of Raamah: Sheba, and Dedan.
    And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
    He was a mighty hunter before the Lord.
    From Sir William Jones:

    When we find, indeed, the same words, letter for letter, and in a sense precisely the same, in different languages, we can scarce hesitate in allowing them a common origin: and not to depart from the example before us, when we see Cush or Cus (for the Sanskrit name is variously pronounced) among the sons of Brahma, that is, among the progenitors of the Hindus, and at the head of an ancient pedigree preserved in the Ramayan; when we meet with his name again in the family of Rama; when we know, that the name is venerated in the highest degree, and given to a sacred grass, described as a Poa by Koenig, which is used with a thousand ceremonies in the oblations to fire, ordained by Menu to form the sacrificial zone of the Brahmans, and solemnly declared in the Veda to have sprung up soon after the deluge, whence the Pauranicks consider it as the bristly hair of the boar which supported the globe; when we add, that one of the seven dwipas, or great peninsulas of this earth, has the same appellation, we can hardly doubt that the Cush of Moses and Valmic was the same personage and an ancestor of the Indian race.

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