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Thread: AWAKENED KUNDALINI ENERGY

  1. #11

    Re: AWAKENED KUNDALINI ENERGY

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiwaunis View Post
    Om Shanti,
    [...]What if this energy only rises up to the Manipuri chakra and starts to descend back down, is that possible?
    Yes. It can be at different levels in the spine at different times. Taoists may also think that something descends from the head down the front of the body, but I think that has more to do with prana. Of course they are unified in some way.

    How does one know if they have awakened the kundalini energy if it doesn't reach the crown chakra?
    When it reaches the Ajna chakra. Even before that, one may feel strong sensations in the spine and sensations of heat in various areas such as the bottom of the feet or almost anywhere: in fact, blisters may occur, but again, the heat may just be prana. One may also be forced into doing asanas as if some spirit of a discarnate Hatha Yogi is controlling your body, but we say it is because Kundalini is controlling it. One may have the smell of sandalwood or something sweet in the top of the back of the mouth, though it could happen for other reasons. These are the main things, and there are a few other less significant things, such as psychic or emotional happenings, that may imply Kundalini is active.

    Once the kundalini reaches the crown chakra one becomes an enlightened Master, is there anything below enlightened master? By anything I mean title, acknowledgement, etc.[...]
    Where else do you think light goes within (and is seen within being) besides the optic nerves in the pineal gland in the centre of the head? (below crown.) Why would one be a Master just because it reaches the crown? A Master must be self-restrained, wise, and possibly very energetic to the point (s)he has siddhis (but is detached)--not just be biological. If one is very energetic one has to be very self-restrained like being chaste. The head chakras are very complicated. There is more density of important chakras further up. So what do you mean 'crown?' Which of tens of (sub-)chakras near the top? Also I have seen pictures with chakras above the head. Actually most nadi diagrams do not have those, which may just be a symbol of consciousness levels.

    A title below Master is chela (disciple.) There is at least one word meaning the same. I have heard there are also three main titles and ones for higher Masters, but I am thinking of a type of Yoga (that has yogis/gurus and more advanced disciples and less advanced ones, and one title is either sanyassin (sp?) or sadhu) Actually there are about five in Sanatana and Buddha Dharma that correspond, though they may skip a level or two (see below.) The first few have to do with people aspiring to or entering the spiritual path. I am not sure any of these have to do with being a teaching Master (guru or maybe acharya) rather than having self-mastery. Another title meaning self-mastery is 'swami.' More accurately I think it means 'free,' but by mastering oneself one is free.

    some titles (there is also paramukta, so i do not know what chohan is.) definitions are on the 'net in places.
    ?. chohan
    5. jivanmukta
    4. paramhamsa
    3. hamsa
    2. kitichaka
    1. parivrajaka

    If Kundalini (K) illuminates Ajna or even goes to the crown, one could still have a lot to learn. I felt it crackling to the crown, but it seems there is really nothing else about consciousness you can realize once K stays in Ajna long enough that you merge into light unbounded from the body: that clears up spiritual questions so consciousness quiets down much after that. However I am no Acharya. Patanjali, Krishna, Buddha, Babaji, Lahiri Mahasaya, Sri Yukteswar, Ramakrishna did/said things no ordinary human could. They were self-restrained and Acharyas. Actually I do not know yet if Ramakrishna did miracles, but it is clear he was self(less)-realized.

    acharya -- spiritual Master (I think that also teaches)
    chela -- disciple of a guru
    chohan -- Lord
    enlightenment -- 'en-light-en-ment'--'in-light-in-being'
    guru -- Master that teaches
    hamsa -- 'swan?'
    jivanmukta -- liberated being
    kitichaka -- 'one who builds his hut'
    nadi -- nerve.
    paramhamsa -- 'great swan?'
    parivrajaka -- 'spiritual wanderer'
    prana -- life (energy of it)
    sadhu -- holy person (that may (not) be a Master?)
    sanyassa -- renunciate (that may (not) be a Master?)
    selfless-realized -- 'self-realized' and thus 'selfless' (doing ahimsa, etc.)
    swami -- Sanatana Dharma monastic
    Last edited by DavidC; 15 November 2009 at 03:25 AM.

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    Re: AWAKENED KUNDALINI ENERGY

    Vanakkam: For most of us, kundalini REMAINS coiled in the muladhara, or lower. For the great souls, kundalini REMAINS coiled at the sahaswara.

    So given the limiting circumstances we find ourselves in, we should practise ethical behaviour first and foremost. We need to get ourselves established at square one in a very permanent way. Otherwise it is just ego-based musings of wannabe mystics.

    Aum Namasivaya

  3. #13

    Re: AWAKENED KUNDALINI ENERGY

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    So given the limiting circumstances we find ourselves in, we should practise ethical behaviour first and foremost. We need to get ourselves established at square one in a very permanent way. Otherwise it is just ego-based musings of wannabe mystics.

    Aum Namasivaya
    There is a real danger of missing the basics, sometimes.This kind of remainder is essential for ordinary souls like me.
    Thanks

  4. #14
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    Re: AWAKENED KUNDALINI ENERGY

    chandu: Yes, me too, I confess. My Guru used to say, "I'm not interested in how high you can go. I'm interested in how low you can go."

    In other words, he wanted you firmly established on the path of righteousness, so that you wouldn't fall out of the tree so to speak.

    Aum Namasivaya

  5. #15

    Re: AWAKENED KUNDALINI ENERGY

    A title below Master is chela (disciple.) There is at least one word meaning the same. I have heard there are also three main titles and ones for higher Masters, but I am thinking of a type of Yoga (that has yogis/gurus and more advanced disciples and less advanced ones, and one title is either sanyassin (sp?) or sadhu) Actually there are about five in Sanatana and Buddha Dharma that correspond, though they may skip a level or two (see below.)
    Dear, you're writing about the psycho-spiritual-physical processes of spiritual awakening, and this is what you write? Could you kindly learn something from what you read before posting it in the most backwards and nonsensical way? You don't know what you're talking about. Do you really think a chela is a "title" below a Master? A sannyasin and a Sadhu are titles of some kind of ranking of Masters? Are you just copying word definitions out of an encyclopedia of Theosophy?

    Taoists may also think that something descends from the head down the front of the body, but I think that has more to do with prana. Of course they are unified in some way.
    Please, do you even know what prana is? You think it has to do with prana? The kundalini rises through the nadis which correspond with location of the spine, along the chakra system of the body. The prana shakti is the lifeforce breath, and hence instilled with Divine current which vibrates and attunes you in resonating harmony with a higher frequency of consciousness. That's the purpose of Nama japa. With the empowerment of Guru's diksha/initiation, the vibration of the Divine Presence in the mantra Naam sound current which vibrates from the Primal Nada/AUM purifies the lotus blossoms of the chakras. That's what chakras are, vibrating centers of powerful energy.
    ਇੜਾ ਪਿੰਗੁਲਾ ਅਉਰੁ ਸੁਖਮਨਾ ਪਉਨੈ ਬੰਧਿ ਰਹਾਉਗੋ ॥
    eirraa pingulaa aour sukhamanaa pounai bandhh rehaaougo ||
    Then, I shall no longer control the breath through the energy channels of the Ida, Pingala and Shushmanaa.
    ~SGGS Ji ang 973
    You place your surti/consciousness on the praan/breath. With intention you cleanse the subtle nadis using system of pranayama to raise the kundalini up the spinal pathways of the nadi system, the main nadis being the Ida, Pingala and shushmana which meet at the triveni: confluence of three, symbolized by Ganges, Jamuna, and Saraswati rivers. But representing the main nadis. This is where you take your cleansing bath, or your cleansing breath, starting from the nabhi/navel and rising to the sacred rivers. This is where you bathe your mind of impurities and defilements.
    ਮਨ ਰੇ ਪਵਨ ਦ੍ਰਿੜ ਸੁਖਮਨ ਨਾਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    man rae pavan dhrirr sukhaman naaree ||1|| rehaao ||
    O mind, hold your breath steady within the central channel of the Sushmanaa. ||1||Pause||

    ਸੋ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਰਹੁ ਜਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਕਰਨਾ ॥
    so gur karahu j bahur n karanaa ||
    Adopt such a Guru, that you shall not have to adopt another again.

    ਸੋ ਪਦੁ ਰਵਹੁ ਜਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਰਵਨਾ ॥
    so padh ravahu j bahur n ravanaa ||
    Dwell in such a state, that you shall never have to dwell in any other.

    ਸੋ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਧਰਹੁ ਜਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਧਰਨਾ ॥
    so dhhiaan dhharahu j bahur n dhharanaa ||
    Embrace such a meditation, that you shall never have to embrace any other.

    ਐਸੇ ਮਰਹੁ ਜਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਮਰਨਾ ॥੨॥
    aisae marahu j bahur n maranaa ||2||
    Die in such a way, that you shall never have to die again. ||2||

    ਉਲਟੀ ਗੰਗਾ ਜਮੁਨ ਮਿਲਾਵਉ ॥
    oulattee gangaa jamun milaavo ||
    Turn your breath away from the left channel, and away from the right channel, and unite them in the central channel of the Sushmanaa.

    ਬਿਨੁ ਜਲ ਸੰਗਮ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਵਉ ॥
    bin jal sangam man mehi nhaavo ||
    At their confluence within your mind, take your bath there without water.
    ~SGGS Ji ang 327
    "How does one know if they have awakened the kundalini energy if it doesn't reach the crown chakra?"
    When it reaches the Ajna chakra. Even before that, one may feel strong sensations in the spine and sensations of heat in various areas such as the bottom of the feet or almost anywhere: in fact, blisters may occur, but again, the heat may just be prana.
    Heh. Okay. You need to go back to square one. Kundalini awakening refers to the stirrings of the energy and can take place anywhere along the spine. The spine has nerves that have pathways which can reach your feet, but this is so broad, so over-generalized, so inaccurate. I mean imagine going to a doctor with the vague complaints of blistered feet and hot flashes and sweet taste? What in the world does it signify? Ahhh! Kundalini awakening and instant jeevan mukti! I don't think it works that way dear.

    You have the signs of kundalini awakening in many varied and individualistic ways it is true. But please remember this is a process that's not about foot blisters. It's a "psycho-physical-spiritual" process. Most commonly people have psycho-spiritual events occurring that are disorienting, sometimes pleasant, even blissful ecstasies, or even chaotically disruptive. And these experiences occur along with physical symptoms. The agni chakr is the area at the level of the pineal gland which is the biological remnant of a third parietal eye. The pineal gland is known to secrete melatonin and the powerful tryptamine DMT. It is also associated with the hypothalamus and thereby has an effect on neurohormonal regulation. I assure you, IF you are able to pierce the chakras to the level of the third eye, you will not be worried about blisters on your feet because DMT is a powerful endogenous hallucinagen and you will either be capable of visiting spiritual dimensions or going insane without proper guidance.


    We have biological remnant of parietal eye in the pineal gland.

    The parietal eye is a part of the epithalamus, which can be divided into two major parts; the epiphysis (the pineal organ, or pineal gland if mostly endocrine) and the parietal organ (often called the parietal eye, or third eye if it is photoreceptive). It arises as an anterior evagination of the pineal organ or as a separate outgrowth of the roof of the diencephalon. In some species, it protrudes through the skull.[4] The parietal eye uses a different biochemical method of detecting light than rod cells or cone cells in a normal vertebrate eye.[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parietal_eye
    ਉਲਟਤ ਪਵਨ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਖਟੁ ਭੇਦੇ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸੁੰਨ ਅਨਰਾਗੀ ॥
    oulattath pavan chakr khatt bhaedhae surath sunn anaraagee ||
    I turned my breath inwards, and pierced through the six chakras of the body, and my awareness was centered on the Primal Void of the Absolute Lord.
    ~SGGS Ji ang 333


    One may also be forced into doing asanas as if some spirit of a discarnate Hatha Yogi is controlling your body, but we say it is because Kundalini is controlling it. One may have the smell of sandalwood or something sweet in the top of the back of the mouth, though it could happen for other reasons. These are the main things, and there are a few other less significant things, such as psychic or emotional happenings, that may imply Kundalini is active.
    Uh, see what I wrote above. Kundalini is a process of consciousness transformation. THAT is the main thing, the physical itchings, jerkings, asanas, even foreign languages are the lesser things. The sweet taste is referring to amrita which is secreted from the stimulated pineal gland and tasted through khechari mudra which forms a seal/mudra by placing the tongue in back of the throat at the roof of the mouth, making a cup to drink in the amrita. This amrit is a psychoactive Soma. That is the real Soma. That's what is going to give you the revelatory power, insight, vivek, psychic ability to open the dasm duar transcending mundane consciousness.


    Khechari mudra directly above the tongue placement is location of the pineal gland which secretes through a hole in the mouth which the tongue can taste. The pineal gland is at the level of agni chakr/third eye. This is the level of spiritual powers/siddhis.


    The rishi knot, or Sikh jura is hairs tied over the area of dasm duar which is location of anterior fontanel. This is a mudra/seal formed over the sahasranama crown chakr, also called dasam duar, or tenth gate. The nine gates of the body have to be closed/seal in yogic practice because they are open and the sensations dissipate our spiritual energies. The Nine gates are 2 eyes, 2 ears, 2 nostrils, 1 mouth, 1 anus, 1 urethra.


    ਨਉ ਦਰਵਾਜੇ ਦਸਵੈ ਮੁਕਤਾ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦੁ ਵਜਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੩॥
    no dharavaajae dhasavai mukathaa anehadh sabadh vajaavaniaa ||3||
    Beyond the nine gates, the Tenth Gate is found, and liberation is obtained. The Unstruck Melody of the Shabad vibrates. ||3||
    ~SGGS JI ang 110


    The tenth gate closes after infancy, and it spiritually opens with the activation of the Kundalini process when the serpent power rises to the level of crown chakra. This is the level of nirbikalpa (without thoughts) samadhi and brahmgyaan and jeevan mukta.
    ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਚਨ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਜੋ ਬੋਲੈ ਸੋ ਮੁਖਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪਾਵੈ ॥੨॥
    anmrith bachan sathigur kee baanee jo bolai so mukh anmrith paavai ||2||
    The Words of the True Guru's Teachings are Ambrosial Nectar; this Amrit trickles into the mouth of the one who chants them. ||2||
    ~SGGS Ji ang 494
    ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਮੁਨਿ ਜਨ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਖੋਜਦੇ ਸੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
    sur nar mun jan anmrith khojadhae s anmrith gur thae paaeiaa ||
    The angelic beings and the silent sages search for the Ambrosial Nectar; this Amrit is obtained from the Guru.
    ~SGGS JI ang 918
    ਭਾਠੀ ਗਗਨੁ ਸਿੰਙਿਆ ਅਰੁ ਚੁੰਙਿਆ ਕਨਕ ਕਲਸ ਇਕੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
    bhaathee gagan sinn(g)iaa ar chunn(g)iaa kanak kalas eik paaeiaa ||
    The Tenth Gate of my crown chakra is the distilling fire, and the channels of the Ida and Pingala are the funnels, to pour in and empty out the golden vat.

    ਤਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਧਾਰ ਚੁਐ ਅਤਿ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਰਸ ਮਹਿ ਰਸਨ ਚੁਆਇਆ ॥੨॥
    this mehi dhhaar chuai ath niramal ras mehi rasan chuaaeiaa ||2
    Into that vat, there trickles a gentle stream of the most sublime and pure essence of all distilled essences. ||2||

    ਏਕ ਜੁ ਬਾਤ ਅਨੂਪ ਬਨੀ ਹੈ ਪਵਨ ਪਿਆਲਾ ਸਾਜਿਆ ॥
    eaek j baath anoop banee hai pavan piaalaa saajiaa ||
    Something wonderful has happened-the breath has become the cup.

    ਤੀਨਿ ਭਵਨ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੋ ਜੋਗੀ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਵਨੁ ਹੈ ਰਾਜਾ ॥੩॥
    theen bhavan mehi eaeko jogee kehahu kavan hai raajaa ||3||
    In all the three worlds, such a Yogi is unique. What king can compare to him? ||3||

    ਐਸੇ ਗਿਆਨ ਪ੍ਰਗਟਿਆ ਪੁਰਖੋਤਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਤਾ ॥
    aisae giaan pragattiaa purakhotham kahu kabeer rang raathaa
    This spiritual wisdom of God, the Supreme Soul, has illuminated my being. Says Kabeer, I am attuned to His Love.

    ਅਉਰ ਦੁਨੀ ਸਭ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਨੀ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਮ ਰਸਾਇਨ ਮਾਤਾ ॥੪॥੩॥
    aour dhunee sabh bharam bhulaanee man raam rasaaein maathaa ||4||3||
    All the rest of the world is deluded by doubt, while my mind is intoxicated with the Sublime Essence of the Lord. ||4||3||
    ~SGGS Ji ang 92
    ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਵਿਰੋਧੁ ਲਘਿ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ਵਿਹਾਣਾ ।
    kaamu krodhu virodhu|aghi|obhu mohu ahankaaru vihaanaa|
    Resisting lust and anger he crosses the greed, infatuation and ego.

    ਸਤਿ ਸੰਤੋਖ ਦਇਆ ਧਰਮੁ ਅਰਥੁ ਸੁ ਗਰੰਥੁ ਪੰਚ ਪਰਵਾਣਾ ।
    sati santokh daiaa dharamu aradu su garandu panch paravaanaa|
    He espouses truth, contentment, compassion, dharma and fortitude.

    ਖੇਚਰ ਭੂਚਰ ਚਾਚਰੀ ਉਨਮਨ ਲਘਿ ਅਗੋਚਰ ਬਾਣਾ ।
    khaychar bhoochar chaacharee unaman|aghi agochar baanaa|
    Getting above of the khechar bhuchar chachar, unman and agochar (all yogic postures) mudras he concentrates upon the One Lord.
    ~Vaar 7 Pauri 5 of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Ji
    some titles (there is also paramukta, so i do not know what chohan is.) definitions are on the 'net in places.
    ?. chohan
    5. jivanmukta
    4. paramhamsa
    3. hamsa
    2. kitichaka
    1. parivrajaka
    Your insights are very precious. Your sincerity and spiritual interest is a blessing to the forum. But can you at least, kindly do the basic research which provides an "informed" discussion and not a list of errors. What is this list? Titles of what? Ascended Masters? Please!

    Chohan is it? Are you mixing up gotra with a concept of Jeevan mukta? Paramahansa relates to it how? Because the name reflects that someone has transcended, param, gone beyond, and Hansa/swan, physicality is beyond the merely physical. It's not really a "title" like Doctor. It's given as a name, like to Paramahansa Yogananda at one of his initiations by his Guru. Some western people are teaching craziness on internet. Don't read those definitions! A list of titles of the greatest sannyasin Masters who are the Paramahansas. Lord! The greatest yogis don't have that kind of ego!

    Anyway none of these "terms," not formal titles have any association really with the concept of jeevan mukta.

    ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਹਉਮੈ ਛੁਟੈ ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਸੋ ਹੋਇ ॥
    gur parasaadhee houmai shhuttai jeevan mukath so hoe ||
    By Guru's Grace, egotism is eradicated, and then, one is Jivan Mukta - liberated while yet alive.
    ~SGGS Ji ang 948
    What is kitichaka? I looked it up and a bunch of links to the theosophical society came up. Why don't you study the writings of a Kundalini Master like Swami Sivananda instead of a bunch of British european intellectuals who also are on the moon? He's well respected and has a number of affordable English language books on the subject that are popular, easy to read and easy to get.

  6. #16

    Re: AWAKENED KUNDALINI ENERGY

    Quote Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur View Post
    Dear, you're writing about the psycho-spiritual-physical processes of spiritual awakening, and this is what you write? Could you kindly learn something from what you read before posting it in the most backwards and nonsensical way? You don't know what you're talking about. Do you really think a chela is a "title" below a Master? A sannyasin and a Sadhu are titles of some kind of ranking of Masters? Are you just copying word definitions out of an encyclopedia of Theosophy?
    I was not clear what sannyasins and sadhus are, but the previous thing I was talking about was chelas. I thought sannyasins and sadhus do certain practices but do not necessarily achieve the state of a nath--Yoga adept--or other kind of realized Master. I have seen something like 'sannyasin' or 'sadhu' to mean taking certain vows and working or maybe achieving certain practices, and at least a word like 'chela' outside of Theosophy.

    Please, do you even know what prana is? You think it has to do with prana? The kundalini rises through the nadis which correspond with location of the spine, along the chakra system of the body.
    Yes. The Taoists say there is a meridian down the front of the body that continues from one like sushumna. However, there is no nerve down the front of the body. That is why it is prana (life,) not Kundalini (when meaning in the spine, though some people also say it is in all matter or life.)

    Heh. Okay. You need to go back to square one. Kundalini awakening refers to the stirrings of the energy and can take place anywhere along the spine. The spine has nerves that have pathways which can reach your feet, but this is so broad, so over-generalized, so inaccurate. I mean imagine going to a doctor with the vague complaints of blistered feet and hot flashes and sweet taste? What in the world does it signify? Ahhh! Kundalini awakening and instant jeevan mukti! I don't think it works that way dear.
    Your last statement is not what I meant. However people have said all sorts of even weirder things are signs of Kundalini--even things that mainly have to do with plain biological or mental/emotional process. What I focused on may (not) be signs, but I have not mentioned some of the weirder arbitrary things. Also I was not just talking about 'blistered' feet, but when the entire lower part of the feet and somewhat up the sides are hot for days/weeks/months, maybe have a little more blood in them, for probably both reasons are darker, and in fact they are so hot that the skin is not so tight in places as if ares are almost starting to warp and almost swell like blisters, but blisters may not actually form. It is like having a huge soft callous over the bottom and sides of the feet. Many other people that said they experienced Kundalini said they experienced this because it is said to not just start from the base of the spine but the base of the feet. Then perhaps before you feel pressure within the spine, you will feel heat up the legs and into the spine. However it has been a while since I felt it that strongly. Also, it is not just hot 'flashes,' but concentrated heat within the organs as Kundalini may go out of the nadis or at least prana will be intensified. It is very hot, sustained, heat that eventually may start having electrical activity within it. Of course this may only be where nerves are in organs/muscles (I forgot,) but it will be in areas of intense sensations/heat that is not just some kind of 'flash' but an intense change in the body. I think you know as well as I that Tibetan monks dry out wet sheets when they sit on snow or ice. That is not just a little bit of heat: it is a lot and is explained by Kundalini and intense prana processes.

    The agni chakr is the area at the level of the pineal gland which is the biological remnant of a third parietal eye. The pineal gland is known to secrete melatonin and the powerful tryptamine DMT. It is also associated with the hypothalamus and thereby has an effect on neurohormonal regulation. I assure you, IF you are able to pierce the chakras to the level of the third eye, you will not be worried about blisters on your feet because DMT is a powerful endogenous hallucinagen and you will either be capable of visiting spiritual dimensions or going insane without proper guidance.
    Indeed, but it is not all about hallucination. The pineal gland has optic nerve endings. Electricity causes light, so when electricity rises at/in the pineal, it illuminates those optic nerves. Then wouid someone be seeing hallucination or what is truly in the mental worlds? Clearly we know the body is not all of a person: it is not the person, but the person interfaces to the body with each place electricity connects to a nerve and all the optic nerves are how a person--in the mental worlds--sees what is in matter. Even Advaita supports this because in physics matter-energy is one and quantum mechanics shows consciousness controls matter: so electricity in the nervous system is controlled by the non-material mind.

    Uh, see what I wrote above. Kundalini is a process of consciousness transformation. THAT is the main thing, the physical itchings, jerkings, asanas, even foreign languages are the lesser things. The sweet taste is referring to amrita which is secreted from the stimulated pineal gland and tasted through khechari mudra which forms a seal/mudra by placing the tongue in back of the throat at the roof of the mouth, making a cup to drink in the amrita. This amrit is a psychoactive Soma. That is the real Soma. That's what is going to give you the revelatory power, insight, vivek, psychic ability to open the dasm duar transcending mundane consciousness.
    That is some of what I meant... but I did not want to get into writing all that and your further descriptions. I think I had said enough detail, even if some of it may be unclear (or maybe even wrong--see below.) Actually psychism may depend on various things. If someone has amrita but is not illuminating Ajna it seems they will not be having clairvoyance. It is a nice idea amrita in the mouth (and sometimes sensible elsewhere in the body if you are chaste) is said to be because of Yoga, but as for amrita and the sandalwood smell, it is said internal smells are said to be astral. So, maybe the part about being chaste is true but if you can smell sandalwood then how do you know every sweet smell is amrita? I do not know the significance of a sandalwood smell, but maybe I just wanted to smell it. Maybe it also happened because of electricity almost burning the inside of my mouth. Other smells and sensations can be felt in the body, and maybe some are astral, or some have to do with the state of your body or organs, which can be very distracting. It is best not to put any focus on these.

    Your insights are very precious. Your sincerity and spiritual interest is a blessing to the forum. But can you at least, kindly do the basic research which provides an "informed" discussion and not a list of errors. What is this list? Titles of what? Ascended Masters? Please!

    Chohan is it? Are you mixing up gotra with a concept of Jeevan mukta? Paramahansa relates to it how? Because the name reflects that someone has transcended, param, gone beyond, and Hansa/swan, physicality is beyond the merely physical. It's not really a "title" like Doctor. It's given as a name, like to Paramahansa Yogananda at one of his initiations by his Guru. Some western people are teaching craziness on internet. Don't read those definitions! A list of titles of the greatest sannyasin Masters who are the Paramahansas. Lord! The greatest yogis don't have that kind of ego!

    Anyway none of these "terms," not formal titles have any association really with the concept of jeevan mukta.

    ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਹਉਮੈ ਛੁਟੈ ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਸੋ ਹੋਇ ॥
    gur parasaadhee houmai shhuttai jeevan mukath so hoe ||
    By Guru's Grace, egotism is eradicated, and then, one is Jivan Mukta - liberated while yet alive.
    ~SGGS Ji ang 948
    What is kitichaka? I looked it up and a bunch of links to the theosophical society came up. Why don't you study the writings of a Kundalini Master like Swami Sivananda instead of a bunch of British european intellectuals who also are on the moon? He's well respected and has a number of affordable English language books on the subject that are popular, easy to read and easy to get.
    Thank you for the great quotes from SGGS, etc.. I am not very interested in 'Ascended Masters,' but I thought most of Theosophy was researched enough. Actually my list came from others besides the founder, so I would not necessarily trust it, but I it seems there is truth in some other things they wrote, so I wonder if anyone in India has ever used this list for description but not necessarily titles. I hope this has not done any harm. I only saw it as description sort of like if one becomes spiritual or pierces a certain granthi or attains a high Yoga state. Maybe it could describe something else, and I think there is a similar Buddhist list, butI still think 'levels of Masters' (which the list is not really about) is a mostly silly idea. What is a gotra?

    I have been reading Swami Sivananda and his disciples for 10 years, for a few weeks before I even realized spirit/Kundalini was real.
    Last edited by DavidC; 16 November 2009 at 06:40 AM. Reason: added some more relevant info

  7. #17

    Re: AWAKENED KUNDALINI ENERGY

    I am not very interested in 'Ascended Masters,' but I thought most of Theosophy was researched enough. Actually my list came from others besides the founder, so I would not necessarily trust it, but I it seems there is truth in some other things they wrote, so I wonder if anyone in India has ever used this list for description but not necessarily titles. I hope this has not done any harm. I only saw it as description sort of like if one becomes spiritual or pierces a certain granthi or attains a high Yoga state. Maybe it could describe something else, and I think there is a similar Buddhist list, butI still think 'levels of Masters' (which the list is not really about) is a mostly silly idea. What is a gotra?

    some titles (there is also paramukta, so i do not know what chohan is.) definitions are on the 'net in places.
    ?. chohan
    5. jivanmukta
    4. paramhamsa
    3. hamsa
    2. kitichaka
    1. parivrajaka
    Your titles of masters or levels of mastery are not based on Hindu teaching. It seems a very European hierarchical (racist) emphasis from the turn of the century. Reflecting on these titles, it becomes clear they have no relationship to any sort of "secret spiritual hierarchy" such as Theosophy asserts. Chauhan/Chohan is a gotra surname. It relates to a person's given caste, as in Jatt or Rajput subcaste, which Chohan/Chauhan surname is. It isn't a title of anything in particular. It has nothing whatever to do with attaining a level of spiritual proficiency. Whoever wrote these articles using these titles has made a laughingstock of scholarship.

    I was not clear what sannyasins and sadhus are, but the previous thing I was talking about was chelas. I thought sannyasins and sadhus do certain practices but do not necessarily achieve the state of a nath--Yoga adept--or other kind of realized Master.
    Again, these are concepts bearing no relationship to any mythical hierarchies of supremely realized beings or Aryan brotherhood. Sannyas is just vows that monks take. Chela is simply a disciple of a Guru. A terrible sinner can be a chela, such as Ravan. A sannyasi is just somebody ordinary trying to live a bramachari lifestyle as opposed to householder. None of these terms have any relationship to enlightenment or powers of any kind.

    There is no Order of the Realized Masters, the "Sannyasins" or the "Paramahansas" etc. Theosophy is a conglomeration of shoddy Western scholarship at the turn of the century taking advantage of largescale societal ignorance regarding Indic culture and religious teachings and filling up ears with gobbledegook. It is in fact the basis of a "New Age" movement which is a conglomeration of Eastern, Western, indigenous, and fanciful beliefs welded together where there are no seams.

    I have been reading Swami Sivananda and his disciples for 10 years
    Yet you took up space writing about kundalini experience from fanciful and terribly confused Theosophy about Chouhan Sannyasin Paramahansas instead of any clear teachings by the great Swami Sivananda ji? Strange choice.

    Taoists say there is a meridian down the front of the body that continues from one like sushumna. However, there is no nerve down the front of the body. That is why it is prana (life,) not Kundalini
    Dear, prana is breath but more clearly, it is lifeforce breath and hence more properly understood as prana-shakti, it is breath which is permeated with lifeforce energy. It is equivalent with Chi. Kundalini refers to the energy/shakti which is coiled at the base of the spine and required to pierce upwards through the vital energy centers of the chakras to elevate consciousness. There are 72,000 subtle energy nadis of the body. The Shushmana does run up and down the front and back of the body.


    Classical depiction of 72,000 nadis


    prāṇa — life; BG 18.33
    prāṇa-karmāṇi — functions of the life breath; BG 4.27
    prāṇa — the outgoing air; BG 15.14
    prāṇa — the living force; SB 7.4.33
    prāṇa — life force; SB 11.18.34

    However people have said all sorts of even weirder things are signs of Kundalini--even things that mainly have to do with plain biological or mental/emotional process.
    Do you get the part where we could write a biology textbook never having anything to do with a psycho-spiritual-evolutionary process such as Kundalini awakening? Such emphasis on bland and meaningless descriptions do not add to understanding the nature of kundalini shakti as it works to open a person's mental-emotional-physical and spiritual "blocks." All you will have is a list of vague complaints and a story about blisters.

    The "signs" of kundalini awakening have to do with "awakening" and not with mundane processes. So I was trying to give an emphasis which would better explain the meaning of the phenomenon, or you will see scores of people with foot blisters and pimples writing a book tomorrow in New Age Press about their "Kundalini experiences."

    when the entire lower part of the feet and somewhat up the sides are hot for days/weeks/months, maybe have a little more blood in them
    Soldiers who march for long hours in the hot sun also have these experiences. What exactly in these particular experiences led the recipient to believe they were a sign of Kundalini awakening? You see, the part that's missing is the description of the "awakening." The symptoms will be individual depending on what processes or blocks are being exposed, opened and released. Maybe this person had a samskara from lifetimes of having marched as a soldier and was releasing that identification.

    See, it is release from a particular samskara that would be a true sign of Kundalini awakening, and not an episode of foot blisters and hot feet which is meaningful.

  8. #18

    Re: AWAKENED KUNDALINI ENERGY

    Many other people that said they experienced Kundalini said they experienced this because it is said to not just start from the base of the spine but the base of the feet.
    Do you believe everyone who claims to be having a Kundalini awakening is actually having one? Can you please cite the supportive scriptural reference or yogic text which claims Kundalini awakening begins in the feet and not the muladhara chakra? And please do not quote a Theosophy textbook. Granted, the nerves of the feet have a root in muladhara chakra. The muladhara chakra is an energy center. The feet are not an energy center.


    Representation of the Muladhara Chakra

    Practical Lessons In Yoga, By Sri Swami Sivananda, A DIVINE LIFE SOCIETY PUBLICATION

    The Serpentine Power is called Kundalini-Sakti on account of its spiral-like working in the body of the Yogi developing the power in himself. It is an electric fiery occult power, the mighty pristine force underlying all organic and inorganic matter. The Yoga which treats of this Kundalini-Sakti is called Kundalini-Yoga (for detailed particulars on the subject vide my book “Kundalini Yoga.”).



    Kundalini is the Divine Cosmic Energy in bodies. Siddhi or perfection in Yoga is achieved by arousing this Supreme Force which is lying dormant in the Muladhara Chakra at the base of the spinal column in the form of a serpent with 3 1/2 coils. That Yogi in whom the Kundalini is awakened and taken towards the top of the head is the real King of kings or Emperor of emperors. He has all divine powers. All Siddhis and Riddhis (minor powers) roll under his feet. He can command Nature. He can command the five elements. His glory is indescribable. http://www.dlshq.org/download/practical.htm#_VPID_15

    Indeed, but it is not all about hallucination. The pineal gland has optic nerve endings. Electricity causes light, so when electricity rises at/in the pineal, it illuminates those optic nerves. Then wouid someone be seeing hallucination or what is truly in the mental worlds?
    Because I used the medical terminology that DMT is a powerful hallucinogen does not mean that I believe all spiritual experience is mere hallucination. Nontheless, much of what we perceive as real has more to do with mind-stuff and the illusory nature of the human experience than with true reality. It cannot be ignored that the brain is experiential because it is awash in a sea of biochemical processes. What is potent in this regard is the brain itself is capable of more powerful signaling and reception than ordinary states of consciousness. Much of the initial stages of transformative states of consciousness have to do with bardos and lokas, the heaven and hell realms and powerful unconscious archetypes before any true clarity or enlightenment occurs. I think the biochemical existence of an endogenous hallucinogen like DMT in the human body's natural physiology speaks to the truth of these ancient teachings.

    Even Advaita supports this because in physics matter-energy is one and quantum mechanics shows consciousness controls matter: so electricity in the nervous system is controlled by the non-material mind.
    I don't get what you're saying Advaita supports. Your ego-centric existence is predicated on samskaras, kaleshas and karmas, and your physical processes reflect this subliminal and unconscious mind-stuff impressions, which in turn have a physical effect on the body. It is not the Paramatma inner True Self which operates at this level of physical obscuration, or you would be saying the physical manifestation of even diseases of the nervous system are somehow controlled by the the SELF of Advaita philosophy. While the gunas of materiality and the subtler non-material koshas and our own baggages of inner mental defilements are the acting principles of the limitations of the physical processes.

    Actually psychism may depend on various things. If someone has amrita but is not illuminating Ajna it seems they will not be having clairvoyance. It is a nice idea amrita in the mouth (and sometimes sensible elsewhere in the body if you are chaste) is said to be because of Yoga, but as for amrita and the sandalwood smell, it is said internal smells are said to be astral.
    You didn't study Swami Sivananda for 10 years, although you might have read a book or two of his ten years ago. Maybe you studied spiritualism and theosophy for ten years. But you have no authentic knowledge of kundalini yoga. Your very terminology betrays you.

    Please take the wise advice, go and STUDY, not read, Swami Sivananda, as one example of a respected spiritual yoga Master on the subject of Kundalini awakening. You are teaching us New Age gobbledegook, to put it nicely, and it has nothing to do with the wise heritage of Sanatana Dharma.

    Amrit comes from the practice of Khechari mudra. It is tasted on the tongue. It may or may not unlock siddhis. Siddhis are a by-product and not the goal of receiving amrit. Amrit anywhere else in the body, chaste or not, isn't "amrit."

    Amrita or Amrit (Sanskrit: अमृत) is a Sanskrit word that literally means "that which is immortal", and is often referred to in texts as nectar. Corresponding to ambrosia, it has different significances in different Indian religions. Amrit is repeatedly referred to as the drink of the gods, which grants them immortality. Amrit features in the Samudra manthan, where the gods, because of a curse from the sage Durvasa, begin to lose their immortality. With the help of the asuras (demons), they churned the sea in order to find the nectar of immortality, amrit. After drinking it, the gods regained their immortality and defeated the demons.
    In yogic philosophy (see yoga, Hindu philosophy) amrita is a fluid that can flow from the pituitary gland down the throat in deep states of meditation. It is considered quite a boon: some yogic texts say that one drop is enough to conquer death and achieve immortality. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amrita
    In the Vedas, Soma is portrayed as sacred and as a god (deva). The god, the drink and the plant probably referred to the same entity, or at least the differentiation was ambiguous. Two holy drinks exist: Soma for the immortal soul and Amrita for the immortal body. In this aspect, Amrita is similar to the Greek ambrosia; both is what the gods drink, and what made them deities. Indra and Agni are portrayed as consuming Soma in copious quantities. The consumption of Soma by human beings is probably under the belief that it bestows divine qualities on them.
    The Rigveda (8.48.3, tr. Griffith) states,
    a įpāma sómam amŕtā abhūmāganma jyótir įvidāma devānc kķṃ nūnįm asmān kṛṇavad įrātiḥ kķm u dhūrtķr amṛta mįrtyasya
    We have drunk Soma and become immortal; we have attained the light, the Gods discovered.Now what may foeman's malice do to harm us? What, O Immortal, mortal man's deception?
    The Ninth Mandala of the Rigveda is known as the Soma Mandala. It consists entirely of hymns addressed to Soma Pavamana ("purified Soma"). The drink Soma was kept and distributed by the Gandharvas.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma
    "It is a nice idea amrita in the mouth" ~Indeed. Since it is a "drink," we can't exactly expect to experience it in our feet. It is what gives transformative Turiya consciousness. The perception of true Self, beyond the limitations of time and space. And hence, "immortality."
    Om Namah Shivayah
    Last edited by Harjas Kaur; 28 November 2009 at 11:23 PM.

  9. #19

    Re: AWAKENED KUNDALINI ENERGY

    I guess I should never have spoken on spiritual forums or participated in these topics because first of all, many people might misunderstand and disbelieve, which leads to longer drawn-out or heated discussions, and second of all, one might get ridiculed. I do not mind long, heated dialectec, but it is new to me that discussions get longer because people add pictures/videos--and then sometimes focus more on those than every topic discussed. One that I feel was ignored was ajna vs the pineal. I think the pineal chemicals have to do with Maya but the proper functioning of ajna is involved with starting to see beyond Maya... I discussed that below but will leave what I have written.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur View Post
    Your titles of masters or levels of mastery are not based on Hindu teaching. It seems a very European hierarchical (racist) emphasis from the turn of the century. Reflecting on these titles, it becomes clear they have no relationship to any sort of "secret spiritual hierarchy" such as Theosophy asserts. Chauhan/Chohan is a gotra surname. It relates to a person's given caste, as in Jatt or Rajput subcaste, which Chohan/Chauhan surname is. It isn't a title of anything in particular. It has nothing whatever to do with attaining a level of spiritual proficiency. Whoever wrote these articles using these titles has made a laughingstock of scholarship.
    Okay, maybe the writers were partly or completely wrong, but that does not necessarily mean there is not a spiritual hierarchy. There is a Buddhist classification about equal to that one the writers may have made up: stream-enterer, once-returner, non-returner, arhat, one who needs no further training, and with arhat and beyond, in Mahayana Buddhism there are at least three levels of people who achieved enlightenment, though the terms vary.

    Yet you took up space writing about kundalini experience from fanciful and terribly confused Theosophy about Chouhan Sannyasin Paramahansas instead of any clear teachings by the great Swami Sivananda ji? Strange choice.
    That had nothing to do with Kundalini. It was a different question.

    Do you get the part where we could write a biology textbook never having anything to do with a psycho-spiritual-evolutionary process such as Kundalini awakening? Such emphasis on bland and meaningless descriptions do not add to understanding the nature of kundalini shakti as it works to open a person's mental-emotional-physical and spiritual "blocks." All you will have is a list of vague complaints and a story about blisters.
    That is similar to something I had said and is why I did not give examples of some stranger 'signs' (laughing, crying, emotionalism, normal biological things, etc., etc., etc.) though these were described by Yogis. Not everyone who activates Kundalini experiences heating of the feet, but many/most people experience heating of the body. It can happen in different ways.

    Soldiers who march for long hours in the hot sun also have these experiences. What exactly in these particular experiences led the recipient to believe they were a sign of Kundalini awakening? You see, the part that's missing is the description of the "awakening." The symptoms will be individual depending on what processes or blocks are being exposed, opened and released. Maybe this person had a samskara from lifetimes of having marched as a soldier and was releasing that identification.
    Well, it is not just the feet that heat up and be covered with a yellow-red pattern (which some martial arts Masters and Buddhist meditators call an indication of chi, and say other things about it I could also explain,) but the whole body, even if you are in shorts or if you are outside in Winter. One Yogi said if the entire body gets too hot you should take a bath of a certain temperature and put sandalwood paste on your forehead. That happened to me a couple times, but the first time I did not have access to a bath and the second time I was seven miles away in town, which are reasons I got blisters from heat. They are not like ones from irritation, but what would become second-degree burns if they got much hotter, and that is kind of what happened in cases: a couple small areas on my arm became so hot that they became blisters, then scabs that later peeled off almost all the layers of skin there. Maybe not everyone on kundalini-l had Kundalini, but there was consensus you can get either Kundalini-bodhana (ascending Kundalini) or Shaktipat (descending Kundalini). In many/most cases where people had the Kundalini-bodhana type, the heat started lower in the body, generally on the feet. Your explanation that it could be a samskara may be right for some people, but it does not seem very realistic and is not the case for me, as I have explained in various sections. There could be almost infinite samskaras. Since few people are soldiers, why is this not an experience among most or any people that are not rather than just among many people that experience Kundalini or do T'ai Chi or Chi Kung? I do not see how that one is a samskara or how it is relevant: it is like saying I could ache again years later just because I ran several miles years ago, as if certain things in the past matter more than others. There are other things I could say about Chinese-derived Buddhist/Taoist consciousness practices about chi, but I do not feel like it right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur View Post
    Do you believe everyone who claims to be having a Kundalini awakening is actually having one? Can you please cite the supportive scriptural reference or yogic text which claims Kundalini awakening begins in the feet and not the muladhara chakra?
    No. Read some books by T'ai Chi or Chi Kung Masters. Yoga is just one system, and the original writers may have not written everything. Many other people just follow the system and just because they know it does not mean they know everything about consciousness or could explain it from another viewpoint besides Yoga. Even most 'Kundalini Yogis'--or 'Kundalini Yoga students,' since Yogi should mean someone who has a certain amount of knowledge--are probably only focusing their attention in their spine and getting sensations. They do not know all the ways of circulating the life (prana,)--the Chinese have other methods or ones they focus on more.

    In fact, if someone activates Kundalini in the ascending manner, they can have waves of strong heat from the base of spine area most or all the way up the back to the same area that they feel strong currents in the spine. It can make not only their entire outer body hot but the inner organs by the spine hot. Just read Gopi Krishna's books for a detailed description of how and why that can happen. There is a reason it is called 'Kundalini fire' and the same as Tibetan 'tummo.'

    Granted, the nerves of the feet have a root in muladhara chakra. The muladhara chakra is an energy center. The feet are not an energy center.
    There was an article showing that the petals on chakras are exactly twice the amount of vertebrae (also number of nerve pairs) up to that chakra--up to vishudda--and the head chakra petal numbers correspond to an amount or represented amount of certain brain nerves. Do you really think chakras are 'energy centers?' First of all they are just at points in the spinal cord. Do you really think there is something more supernatural there than just consciousness? I do not think Laya Yoga necessarily does (with its idea of dissolution of the chakras or of the ideas of chakras.) Maybe if you have seen the body of prana you could say there are some kind of 'energy centers,' but it is irrelevant. Life (prana) is in every cell of the body. Some people have said so is Kundalini, but a major/main usage of the term means it is in the spine, which is just made of nerve cells, which correspond to nadis, and I see no reason any would have areas work differently. The chakras correspond to the seven main glands, but that does not mean the nerves behind the glands are somehow 'special.' The spinal cord is mainly all simply a conductor (or whatever the correct electrical term is,) and if parts of it had different electrical properties it would be sort of messed up. It is more likely the signals are unique (unlikely) or have a certain rater or frequency that organs respond to. Electromagnetism does not really work any other way. Even if there are unique non-electromagnetic signals, which there is evidence for and against, that gives no implication that the body of prana somehow has a completely different structure than the material body. One of my points is the body of consciousness within the material body has to have the same structyre as the material body or one in which the prana connects to the material body (in the nerves, etc.) in a geometric way that it can work right. If there are some kind of 'vortexes' going irregularly through the organs then the prana would not be connecting to the organs in the most efficient way. It is also said people eat, drink, etc., in the consciousness worlds, so if the food goes into some area of 'vortexes' rather than a pranic digestive system it would make no sense. IIRC, Yoga talks more of descending Kundalini (or Shiva) and Tantra talks more of it ascending. I experienced the Tantric version but had not found any texts about it (only Yoga ones,) so at first I forgot to mention the Yogic version and maybe that is all why some of my explanation is inadequate.

    Nontheless, much of what we perceive as real has more to do with mind-stuff and the illusory nature of the human experience than with true reality. It cannot be ignored that the brain is experiential because it is awash in a sea of biochemical processes. What is potent in this regard is the brain itself is capable of more powerful signaling and reception than ordinary states of consciousness. Much of the initial stages of transformative states of consciousness have to do with bardos and lokas, the heaven and hell realms and powerful unconscious archetypes before any true clarity or enlightenment occurs. I think the biochemical existence of an endogenous hallucinogen like DMT in the human body's natural physiology speaks to the truth of these ancient teachings.
    I do not really understand all that, though I have read about most of it in the past... it is not everything about consciousness. It seems you made up a secondary definition of 'real.' If 'nadis' mean 'nerves,' that means within the body there is a non-material version of the nerves. So, which one are you talking about and why is the material version so important? I think the idea that it is just rests on certain viewpoints in philosophy. That is sort of a different topic.

    I don't get what you're saying Advaita supports. Your ego-centric existence is predicated on samskaras, kaleshas and karmas, and your physical processes reflect this subliminal and unconscious mind-stuff impressions, which in turn have a physical effect on the body. It is not the Paramatma inner True Self which operates at this level of physical obscuration, or you would be saying the physical manifestation of even diseases of the nervous system are somehow controlled by the the SELF of Advaita philosophy. While the gunas of materiality and the subtler non-material koshas and our own baggages of inner mental defilements are the acting principles of the limitations of the physical processes.
    Okay, some of that makes some more sense and some I do not understand. I will try to explain in a different way. Some Sanatana Dharma Philosophy (I forgot which) says that the senses depend on elements and abstract objects of the senses, and the senses are tied to the mind. What I was saying is the mind has inner senses that depend on abstract (non-material) reality, i.e. tattvas. I was saying everything the consciousness does related to the body is done in an orderly way, but maybe I went beyond Advaita. Maybe it only says jivatma is atma but the body is not necessarily prana is not necessarily jivatma. I was arguing for a viewpoint of monism and saying that since light, which is non-material, is in the pineal gland's eye, then there is a monism unifying spirit and matter, and that that light has more to do with consciousness than some chemical the pineal gland makes. That chemical just changes other parts of the brain. I still do not know what you think about the functioning of the pineal gland's eye and it's relation to Yoga, meditation, consciousness, and seeing in consciousness. Maybe the consciousness is not aligned with the body and the light in there is just going there for no apparent reason and is not sensed by the consciousness and has nothing to do with the consciousness. However, from what I know, it is quite the opposite. If the material nerves were not like the nadis the body would probably not even work.

    You didn't study Swami Sivananda for 10 years, although you might have read a book or two of his ten years ago. Maybe you studied spiritualism and theosophy for ten years.
    I read one or a few books of his ten years ago and have read most parts of most the online ones since then, as well as some in print recently. When you explain the difference between reading and studying I will do it. I do not accept everything he says: he says there is a process of cutting a part under the tongue. I have studied no Spiritualism at all--at least not since related stuff in 1999 - 2001, and I never got deeply into it.

    But you have no authentic knowledge of kundalini yoga. Your very terminology betrays you.

    [..]You are teaching us New Age gobbledegook, to put it nicely, and it has nothing to do with the wise heritage of Sanatana Dharma.
    I see, so once someone studies Kundalini Yogi they cannot say what they want even if it is a bit off-topic and they have to use only certain terminology? I never claimed to be a Kundalini Yogi, but Tantra and Taoist Yoga have their own ideas, and one should be objective. I have not felt heat, electricity, or magnetism in years and I try not to be dogmatic. Maybe my Kundalini descended all the way below manipura and I forgot everything. Maybe the original poster was not asking about advanced details. Could you please say something specific beyond the generalization? Did you mean the words you had put in bold (psychism, clairvoyance, astral?) You are the one who brought up psychism ('psychic.') Even Swami Sivananda Radha says when one pierces Ajna they may become clairvoyant (would you rather be blind in the loka manas is in?) If you do not know why you do not have to believe or like it. 'Astral' is just a Greek-based term with Sanskrit equivalents. FYI some people would think anyone using Sanskrit terms is either 'New Age' or Hindu, though some Western terms are more accepted.

    Amrit comes from the practice of Khechari mudra. It is tasted on the tongue. It may or may not unlock siddhis. Siddhis are a by-product and not the goal of receiving amrit. Amrit anywhere else in the body, chaste or not, isn't "amrit."
    "It is a nice idea amrita in the mouth" ~Indeed. Since it is a "drink," we can't exactly expect to experience it in our feet.[...]
    I may have experienced that after I was being chaste, doing Yoga & meditation, feeling heat, nerve electricity, electromagnetism (and people commented on most/all the latter three,) kriyas, for weeks, before or after I did kechari mudra (which lately I read another definition of that it is a set of mantras,) but I do not think kechari is necessary (not all Yogis say so) or know how amrita works. If there was really some biological system that moves liquid from pineal to the back of the mouth, scientists would probably know. It is sort of like when people say the gonads transmit liquid into the spine. In fact their blood vessels transmit it into the spine. Maybe it is something like that and is too complicated for scientists to currently know. However, I see no reason that there should be amrita. Since it is proven some smells that are internal or generated by someone and sensed by others are just sort of a delusion--sensation on the mental worlds or produced that others can sense--amrita could just be saliva and a delusion, since Yogis say when you are chaste the whole body will smell sweet. There are some 'Yogis' that produce all kinds of smells that either they or others can smell. IIRC, it did not seem like saliva, but it is still something that confuses me like when Yogis say 'gonads transmit fluid to the spine.' People could get all sorts of ideas. How does the pineal transmit fluid to the back of the mouth and is there really some non-dual reason? It certainly does not seem there is as much of a reason for that as for the activity of the Ajna that I have been talking about and everyone else is saying next to nothing about (except repeating that the pineal gland has an eye.)
    Last edited by DavidC; 29 November 2009 at 09:28 PM.

  10. #20

    Re: AWAKENED KUNDALINI ENERGY

    No. Read some books by T'ai Chi or Chi Kung Masters. Yoga is just one system, and the original writers may have not written everything. Many other people just follow the system and just because they know it does not mean they know everything about consciousness or could explain it from another viewpoint besides Yoga.
    Okay, this was my point. This is a HINDU dharma forum, and the topic under discussion happens to be kundalini energy awakening which is a very specific event which occurs within a very specific yoga system, with a full body of respected texts, Masters and lineages. WHY would anyone seek for knowledge about this particular yogic awakening from Theosophy or Chinese Buddhism or Tai Chi?

    It has not to do with ridicule, but you are simply going farther and farther away from the original sources and more prone to erroneous interpretation.
    राज-योग-पदं छापि लभते नात्र संशयः |
    कुम्भकात्कुण्डली-बोधः कुण्डली-बोधतो भवेत |
    अनर्गला सुष्हुम्णा छ हठ-सिद्धिश्छ जायते || ७५ ||

    rāja-yogha-padaṃ chāpi labhate nātra saṃśayaḥ |
    kumbhakātkuṇḍalī-bodhaḥ kuṇḍalī-bodhato bhavet |
    anarghalā suṣhumṇā cha haṭha-siddhiścha jāyate || 75 ||

    He obtains the position of Rāja Yoga undoubtedly. Kuṇḍalinī awakens by Kumbhaka, and by its awakening, Suṣumnā becomes free from impurities.

    "...but that does not necessarily mean there is not a spiritual hierarchy. There is a Buddhist classification about equal to that one the writers may have made up."
    Again, the Buddhist classification system doesn't help anyone understand the Kundalini yoga system or the process of Kundalini awakening. Neither does any classification system.

    There are other things I could say about Chinese-derived Buddhist/Taoist consciousness practices about chi, but I do not feel like it right now.
    While Buddhism and Taoism might relationally have practices or teachings which shed light on the subject of Kundalini, to simply brush aside the body of knowledge from within Hinduism and yogic schools in favor of hearsay experiences interpreted from within Buddhist, Theosophical or Martial Arts traditions is just again, going into another topic while using the label "Kundalini," with no specific knowledge of it. Perhaps you have noticed it's resented when self-proclaimed experts who think they know all about our traditions, actually know nothing about our traditions, and don't even have the humility to show respect for them and to learn and gain the basic knowledge.

    You didn't study Swami Sivananda for 10 years, although you might have read a book or two of his ten years ago. Maybe you studied spiritualism and theosophy for ten years.
    I read one or a few books of his ten years ago and have read most parts of most the online ones since then, as well as some in print recently. When you explain the difference between reading and studying I will do it. I do not accept everything he says: he says there is a process of cutting a part under the tongue.
    Okay, the difference between reading and studying is simple. I might read a book on medicine or I might study to become a doctor. The two are not the same. Don't make the claim you have been reading Swami Sivananda for ten years when clearly that implies intensive long-term study. You are not now nor have ever been a student of Kundalini yoga systems, and it is highly doubtful you had a kundalini yoga awakening on the basis of your self-proclaimed expertise which discounts Swami Sivananda, one of the most respected modern Kundalini yoga Gurus. Regarding the cutting of the tongue, it is a yogic practice which is neither explicitly encouraged or discouraged, that would be for a Guru to decide for his particular chelas. This isn't the kind of yoga system which is a do-it-yourself project.
    I guess I should never have spoken on spiritual forums or participated in these topics because first of all, many people might misunderstand and disbelieve, which leads to longer drawn-out or heated discussions, and second of all, one might get ridiculed.
    Sharing is interesting, it opens many topics of conversation. Proclaiming expertise and presuming to educate the rest of the forum in the absence of knowledge of the particular system under discussion is what opens one to ridicule, although I have tried respectfully to show why it wasn't wise. Instead of arguing with people pointing out weaknesses in your points, why don't you consider the wisdom in the advice? If someone suggests you study the teachings of a spiritual Master on a given topic, is there anything to gain by openly discrediting the expertise of such a Master while elevating one's own interpretations of experience in the topic using terminology entirely unrelated to the subject?

    You see, there is a difference between learning, discussing, sharing, and presuming an expertise and mastery one doesn't have.
    in Mahayana Buddhism there are at least three levels of people who achieved enlightenment, though the terms vary.
    That's nice. Does it have to do with Kundalini yoga or awakening?

    Maybe not everyone on kundalini-l had Kundalini, but there was consensus you can get either Kundalini-bodhana (ascending Kundalini) or Shaktipat (descending Kundalini). In many/most cases where people had the Kundalini-bodhana type, the heat started lower in the body, generally on the feet. Your explanation that it could be a samskara may be right for some people, but it does not seem very realistic and is not the case for me, as I have explained in various sections. There could be almost infinite samskaras. Since few people are soldiers, why is this not an experience among most or any people that are not rather than just among many people that experience Kundalini or do T'ai Chi or Chi Kung? I do not see how that one is a samskara or how it is relevant: it is like saying I could ache again years later just because I ran several miles years ago, as if certain things in the past matter more than others.
    I had past life memories of being a soldier in a war, that was my samskara which was mentioned as example. The point to reiterate is that Kundalini awakening has to do with opening the energy channels and purifying blocks which are in the form of samskaras, kaleshas, and karmas which necessarily are different for different people and may be expressed in different bodily sensations. The point about Kundalini energy awakening is not the physical list of descriptions but the purification process, the clearing of the mental-emotional-pyscho-spiritual bodies. Yes, there are nearly infinite forms of samskaras, and nearly infinite forms in which they are express as clearing. So a list of kundalini experiences might be nearly infinite, and that wouldn't be particularly helpful would it? So what's the point?

    Just read Gopi Krishna's books for a detailed description of how and why that can happen. There is a reason it is called 'Kundalini fire' and the same as Tibetan 'tummo.'
    I read Gopi Krishna's books when I was 13 years old. That was some 30 years ago. Thank you. Kundalini shakti is not identical with Tibetan Tummo, although there are similarities. Just as water can take the form of ice or vapor, Kundalini shakti can have different forms. Kundalini shakti isn't always expressed as heat, although it can be. Perhaps if you studied the writings of a Kundalini Master you would understand the subtle nuances between the Hindu and Tibetan Buddhist systems instead of running them together with Chinese Martial Arts and Tai Chi and Theosophy like a New Age gobbledegook.

    Kundalini, therefore, is the energy that when accumulated and directed can become tummo. The two are essentially similar in nature but applied in somewhat different ways in the Hindu Kundalini Yoga practice and the Vajrayana Buddhist tummo practices, such as the Six Yogas of Naropa. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummo
    Do you really think chakras are 'energy centers?' First of all they are just at points in the spinal cord. Do you really think there is something more supernatural there than just consciousness? I do not think Laya Yoga necessarily does (with its idea of dissolution of the chakras or of the ideas of chakras.) Maybe if you have seen the body of prana you could say there are some kind of 'energy centers,' but it is irrelevant. Life (prana) is in every cell of the body...

    The chakras correspond to the seven main glands, but that does not mean the nerves behind the glands are somehow 'special.'
    Please look up the definition of chakra. You are teaching us all on Hindu Dharma forums that chakras are merely points in the spinal cord? If we can't even agree on basic yogic terminology, then there is a communication problem, something highly relevant. Yes, the traditional Indic definition of the human body includes Sukshma sarira or the subtle body composed of five koshas/layers as well.I suppose this could be "supernatural" as it is something finer than the natural/physical.
    Chakra (derived from the Sanskrit cakraṃ चक्रं, pronounced [ˈtʃəkrə]; Pali: chakka, Chinese: 轮, Tibetan: khorlo) is a Sanskrit word that translates as "wheel" or "turning". [1]
    Chakra is a concept referring to wheel-like vortices which, according to traditional Indian medicine, are believed to exist in the surface of the etheric double of man.[2] The Chakras are said to be "force centers" or whorls of energy permeating, from a point on the physical body, the layers of the subtle bodies in an ever-increasing fan-shaped formation (the fans make the shape of a love heart). Rotating vortices of subtle matter, they are considered the focal points for the reception and transmission of energies.[3] Seven major chakras or energy centers (also understood as wheels of light) are generally believed to exist, located within the subtle body. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakra
    It seems you made up a secondary definition of 'real.' If 'nadis' mean 'nerves,' that means within the body there is a non-material version of the nerves. So, which one are you talking about and why is the material version so important? I think the idea that it is just rests on certain viewpoints in philosophy.
    Where did you get the definition that "nadis" only mean "nerves?" Nad in Sanskrit is meaning sound, vibration and movement. Snayu is Sanskrit for nerves or ligaments, muscles and veins. Nadis are subtle tube-like sheaths according to Ayurveda and basic yoga texts, through which currents of prana move. Instead of accusing me of making up stuff, why don't you look up simple definitions?

    If we're going to discuss the yoga of kundalini awakening, we will get nowhere without basic understanding of the psycho-physical-spiritual energy systems of the human body. And if we want to stay true to the definitions found within the Hindu tradition, we necessarily have to conform our definitions to the traditional yogic avuvedic one, is that not so?

    Nāḍi (the Sanskrit for "tube, pipe") are the channels through which, in traditional Indian medicine and spiritual science, the energies of the subtle body are said to flow. They connect at special points of intensity called chakras. Nadis seem to correspond to the meridians of traditional Chinese medicine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadis
    ਚਿਰੰਕਾਲ ਪਾਈ ਦ੍ਰੁਲਭ ਦੇਹ ॥
    chirankaal paaee dhraalabh dhaeh ||
    After a very long time, one obtains this precious human body, so difficult to obtain.
    1 Raamkalee Guru Arjan Dev

    ਨਾਮ ਬਿਹੂਣੀ ਹੋਈ ਖੇਹ ॥
    naam bihoonee hoee khaeh ||
    Without the Naam, the Name of the Lord, it is reduced to dust.

    ਪਸੂ ਪਰੇਤ ਮੁਗਧ ਤੇ ਬੁਰੀ ॥
    pasoo paraeth mugadhh thae buree ||
    Worse than a beast, a demon or an idiot,

    ਤਿਸਹਿ ਨ ਬੂਝੈ ਜਿਨਿ ਏਹ ਸਿਰੀ ॥੩॥
    thisehi n boojhai jin eaeh siree ||3||
    is that one who does not understand who created him. ||3||

    ਸੁਣਿ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਗੋਪਾਲ ॥
    sun karathaar govindh gopaal ||
    Listen, O Creator Lord, Lord of the Universe, Lord of the World,

    ਦੀਨ ਦਇਆਲ ਸਦਾ ਕਿਰਪਾਲ ॥
    dheen dhaeiaal sadhaa kirapaal ||
    Merciful to the meek, forever compassionate

    ਤੁਮਹਿ ਛਡਾਵਹੁ ਛੁਟਕਹਿ ਬੰਧ ॥
    thumehi shhaddaavahu shhuttakehi bandhh ||
    If You emancipate the human, then his bonds are broken.
    ~SGGS Ji ang 890
    The materiality of the body is a rare and wonderful instrument designed for obtaining enlightenment because it combines the totality of the physical and the subtle. Yoga is the method for tuning the instrument of the human body into a vehicle of liberation.
    ਇਸ ਦੇਹੀ ਕਉ ਸਿਮਰਹਿ ਦੇਵ ॥
    eis dhaehee ko simarehi dhaev ||
    Even the gods long for this human body.

    ਸੋ ਦੇਹੀ ਭਜੁ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ ॥੧॥
    so dhaehee bhaj har kee saev ||1||
    So vibrate that human body, and think of serving the Lord. ||1||

    ਭਜਹੁ ਗ+ਬਿੰਦ ਭੂਲਿ ਮਤ ਜਾਹੁ ॥
    bhajahu guobindh bhool math jaahu ||
    Vibrate, and meditate on the Lord of the Universe, and never forget Him.

    ਮਾਨਸ ਜਨਮ ਕਾ ਏਹੀ ਲਾਹੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    maanas janam kaa eaehee laahu ||1|| rehaao ||
    This is the blessed opportunity of this human incarnation. ||1||Pause||
    ~SGGS Ji ang 1159

    I do not see how that one is a samskara or how it is relevant: it is like saying I could ache again years later just because I ran several miles years ago, as if certain things in the past matter more than others.
    I don't think you understand the nature of a samskara, or how karma operates in forming attachments, and bondages and how these disturbances of vritti are limiting our consciousness and preventing transcendence. Sanchitta Karma is the accumulation of impressions and repetitions of our thoughts, tendancies and actions. It's the load of baggage we carry from life to life, our inclinations both good and bad. Schools of yoga are methodologies for purifying and clearing these forms of bondage from the physical to the interior levels. And so it encompasses the physical, the mental, the spiritual nature of a person. For someone it may manifest in outbreaks of blisters on the feet. In another samskaras may manifest as schizophrenia. But Kundalini awakening has to do with confronting the levels of energetic bondage in a person's core self, reaching deep into the nature of the samskara to the roots of our vasanas, our kleshas, and bursting through it with force and power.

    It's not like you ran and got an ache in your ankle. It's more like you were brutalized at some time, and got an ache in your heart that was so deep it resonated like a cry drawing attention to itself through the ages. That is more like the nature of a samskara. Transforming samskaras is transforming suffering itself. Only in this way can the inner atman be freed to experience undisturbed bliss.

    Certain things of the past do matter more than others. It just depends on the person. Some people have worked out deep things and are lighter/freer than others. Some people are still burdened with a lot of baggage. Kundalini is the power which burns samskaras. That's why an awakening has the power to be so destabilizing. It reaches our deepest fears and griefs and emotional-psychological woundedness. It touches the core of our bondage. No one can safely walk this path without a Guru. This is the razors edge, the cliff of insanity through which there are a thousand ways to fall, metaphorically speaking, and only one angle on which to stand.

    A kundalini awakening is a powerful spiritual breakthrough. It is not a mere memory or triggering of a samskara or physical symptomology. It is the very stirrings of the process of liberation. It contains the healing of all the suffering ages. Kundalini is the Devi we worship, our Divine Maa.
    Last edited by Harjas Kaur; 30 November 2009 at 03:01 AM.

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