How do you realise the Absolute ?

[devotee]

Namaste,

How do you "realise" the Absolute, the Only Truth, the SELF ?

The question is & cannot be free from defects here & so will be the case of any "answer" coming forth. So, please don't worry about the lack of power of words to convey the exact thing that we want to say here otherwise no discussion would be possible.

It is said to be "the pathless Path". This is because if there is a path then I am not already at where I want to be. But there can't be a path which is separate from the Absolute otherwise Absolute will not remain Absolute & there would be duality.

If I am already there, then why do I see the "duality" all around me ? Even if I say, "OK. Everything is just ME & there is none except ME", does it really solve the problem ? If that is so, then why the person who hits me leaves me in pain when the person who hits doesn't feel it ? ( Ref : Atanu's question")

Some say, realise it by meditation. Some deny the efficacy of meditation alone. Some say that there is nothing to do except shedding the idea of being not-Absolute. Some say, by the grace of Guru/Teacher you may realise it effortlessly. Some say, we must have right action, right thinking etc. for attaining That. Some say that the essence lies in dropping all attachments.

What do you think ? Can we suggest a "step-by-step guide for realisation of the Absolute for dummies" ?

OM

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste,

How do you "realise" the Absolute, the Only Truth, the SELF ?

What do you think ? Can we suggest a "step-by-step guide for realisation of the Absolute for dummies" ?

Namaste devotee,
Since you asked 'what do you think' let me respond in this manner. It has been my experience based upon my studies, teachings, & personal sādhana that one size does not fit all. For the native to move forward, it depends on the means, the upāya, to be applied, and this depends on where the sadhu is at in his/her development.

There are several methods defined on this HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=18299&postcount=2 i.e. sāmbhavopāya, śāktopaya, and āṇavopāya. From a grouping and categorization perspective this group approaches the subject nicely. Are there others? Sure.

Yet beyond these 3 there is the most desired 'approach' called anupāya - nothing need be done. The awakening comes about from anugraha or Divine Grace.

Another simple but profound point to consider is the SELF reveals itSELF to itSELF. Āchāra Śankara suggests that To him who makes an exclusive choice of the SELF, the SELF reveals its own body. Śrī Aurobindo offers that He chooses the SELF who is chosen by the SELF.

So what to do? IMHO and from my teachings, we need to prepare the soil for this to occur. I took a stab at discussing this resolve¹, kratu, on this post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2157&highlight=make+resolve - perhaps one can extract some value from it.

Those are some of my views. I am sure others have a valued POV they may wish to offer.

pranams

1. kratu क्रतु - plan , design , intention , resolution , determination , purpose

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Those are some of my views. I am sure others have a valued POV they may wish to offer.

Namaste,

Would one think no matter what approach for realizing Śivabhaṭṭāraka that the management and/or elimination of oscillating or random thoughts (vikapha) will be needed?

pranams



vikapha विकल्प - variation , combination , variety , diversity , manifoldness ;false notion
Śivabhaṭṭāraka -Śiva, the great Lord , venerable or worshipful; the one that nourishes (bhaṭ)

[devotee]

Namaste yajvanji,

There are several methods defined on this HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=18299&postcount=2 i.e. sāmbhavopāya, śāktopaya, and āṇvopāya. From a grouping and categorization perspective this group approaches the subject nicely.

Thank you very much for the response. Shall we deliberate on every upaya in detail ? Let's see what are these Upayas (courtsey : Kashmir Shaivism) :

1. Sambhavopaya --->
Sambhavopaya is that path of which the Sadhaka must rid himself of the recitation of Mantras - of Sadhana based on breathing; meditation on particular deities; concentrating on some spiritual thought; and so on. He has only to develop his awareness of "I" - consciousness, and that, too, not in any particular place. By the constant awareness of this "I"- consciousness, individual "I" - consciousness quickly vanishes as it is united with His subjective energy and becomes Jivan-Mukta (released in life).
This path is meant for those seekers who reside at the highest level of ability.

2. Saktopaya -->

Saktopaya is the means in which the aspirant or seeker has to develop concentration upon God-consciousness by means of some particular spiritual thought bestowed by the Master. Here the Sadhaka has to concentrate on that particular thought of God-consciousness without the support of Pranayama; Mantra, and so on. He must develop God consciousness simply and only by meditating upon this thought. He has nothing to do with these discarded methods. That single thought of God consciousness will alone carry him to the Supreme State of Transcendental Being. Saktopaya is meant for those who have neither the highest nor the lowest power of meditating energy.

3. Anvopaya -->

Anavopaya is that means in which a Sadhaka who is endowed with an inferior capacity of mind and meditation must develop God-consciousness by resorting to meditation on the two breaths - inhalation and exhalation; to the practice of Pranayama; the recitation of Mantras. In this third inferior path a Sadhaka has, of course, to develop God-consciousness, but, as he is not gifted with higher meditating capacity, he has to seek the support of these inferior methods (Pranayama, etc.) so that finally he may be carried to God-consciousness.

( For details, please follow the link http://www.kashmirshaivism.org/ma95_..._shaivism.html)

-----------------------------------------------------------

Let's take each one of them one-by-one. First of all, the Sambhavopaya :

Sambhavopaya ==> No Deity, No Mantra, No meditation, No concentrating on any religious thoughts etc. !

So, what are we supposed to do here devoid of all those "instruments' ? Developing "Sambhava" ( Sam= same, Bhav=thought/bhavana/understanding) in everything & in all places (including the thinker or the witness) with "I"-Conciousness. Let's have this "bhavana" ( understanding/thought) --- "I" alone exist in all & at all time.

Am I right upto this point ?

It looks so easy. So, why has it been recommended only for the highest "Sadhaks" ? What are the hurdles & how to remove them ?

Regards

OM

[MahaHrada]

N

It looks so easy. So, why has it been recommended only for the highest "Sadhaks" ? What are the hurdles & how to remove them ?

Namaste devotee

All these distinctions (into upayas) apply only to shisyas of a Kaula or Trika Guru who have received diksha and upadesha and mantra. The information about upayas cannot be generalised and applied to everybody, all the information is specific and applies only to tantric sadhana and such a sadhana must always involve a connection to a guru shisya parampara, before one starts with this sort of sadhana.

To approach this path on ones own, only with book knowledge, is dangerous. Even with the direction of a Guru it is not easy and without a Guru the danger is unlimited.

The same applies to the Kaula or Trika shastras, without tantric diksha and Guru they cannot be properly understood or correctly applied.

The Guru will decide what upaya will be used according to qualification of the shisya, if one has not met a Guru this means one has either no Qualification, or is not yet qualified for entering any of these paths, except for the exceedingly rare circumstance that somebody receives diksha from Shiva or Devi himself or herself, but even then meeting with a Guru will usually occur later to solidify the experience.

Thats why also the term highest sadhakas is applied to mean the highest amongst those that have already been received into a Trika Kaula Krama, or whatever tantric Guru-Shisya parampara, not highest amongst everybody.

Some Gurus nowadays teach parts of tantra shastras like vijnana bhairava or shiva sutras , out of context of tantra sadhana, and without any qualification, we need to apply some caution here when listening to discourses or reading books.

MahaHrada

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste devotee,

What MahaHrada offers is relevant and good council. I ask for his continued contribution on this subject. Mahahrada repeats the same words I offered on several occasions i.e.

The information about upayas cannot be generalised and applied to everybody

My words were

It has been my experience based upon my studies, teachings, & personal sādhana that one size does not fit all.

My views on this matter evolve over time as I find the classifications of the upāya-s very helpful for discussion. Perhaps I am a bit myopic on this matter as I have been fortunate to receive initiation into several methods or dhāranā-s (meditations) over the years with the accompanying training i.e. I think I am beyond 'tinkering' .

As I have mentioned, there are multiple paths one can travel on, the ones I suggested allows one to talk about the methods without co-mingling several schools of thought and causing confusion.

I think we still can have fruitful conversations on this subject; We can talk of principles that are at the core of the dhāranā-s without harm.

If you care to look at the following posts, there are a few dhāranā-s mentioned there.

HDF Posts with regard to Vijñāna Bhairava - http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2323
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2342

ॐनमःिशवाय

pranams

[Znanna]

I pray.


YMMV


Namaste,
ZN

[devotee]

Namaste Maha,

To approach this path on ones own, only with book knowledge, is dangerous. Even with the direction of a Guru it is not easy and without a Guru the danger is unlimited.

My experience & POV doesn't agree with the above, if by "Guru" we mean only an enlightened human being in flesh & blood. Guru is necessary but the true Guru is within us & always available.

What is dangerous & what is not ? ==> There are some meditation techniques (towards awakening of kundalini by meditating on different chakras) which should be done only under guidance of an experienced teacher. Why ? Because the arising of Kundalini is difficult to control & can be physically & psychologically harmful if a Guru is not immediately available.

However, awakening of Kundalini is not necessary for realising the Absolute. There are many harmless meditation techniques like "watching the thoughts" / "watching the breath" etc. (basically for calming the thought-waves) which used with the techniques of vichara like "Thinking of what doesn't think" / "Who am I ?" give good results. This is my experience.

IMHO, thinking that everything is dangerous & wait for a Guru in flesh & blood is just wastage of this invaluable life-time which must be used to realise who we really are. Let's identify the Guru inside & surrender to him ready to embrace anything that comes on the way.

People can have different views on this issue. So, I leave it here. My idea of starting this thread was for exchange of experiences, views & for discussion which can help people who are stuck at some level on the road of self-realisation.

Regards

OM

[devotee]

Namaste yajvanji,

I have gone through the posts you have provided links of. I have some doubts over the understanding of "Sambhavopaya".

You say that it is by the grace of Guru whereas my interpretation was as I have mentioned in my previous post. Why should the grace of Guru preserved only for the highest Sadhaks ? Why should Guru's grace need any qualification at all ? Let's see the description of this Upaya :

"He has only to develop his awareness of "I" - consciousness, and that, too, not in any particular place. By the constant awareness of this "I"- consciousness, individual "I" - consciousness quickly vanishes as it is united with His subjective energy and becomes Jivan-Mukta (released in life)."

The effort is required on Sadhak's side & is not granted free ( by grace), as I see it. And it looks logical because developing "sambhav" is not an easy proposition. It can be done only at the highest level.

Actually, all the three upayas are not different. They are essentially the same. The final aim is to develop "sambhav" which leads to the realisation of the Ultimate. Now, if it is not possible for the Sadhak to take this route directly the other instruments can be used & they are indicated as two other upayas.

I will like to have your opinion here.

Regards

OM

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste yajvanji,

I have gone through the posts you have provided links of. I have some doubts over the understanding of "Sambhavopaya".

You say that it is by the grace of Guru whereas my interpretation was as I have mentioned in my previous post. Why should the grace of Guru preserved only for the highest Sadhaks ? Why should Guru's grace need any qualification at all ? Let's see the description of this Upaya :

Namaste devotee,

We can consider the 3: sāmbhavopāya, śāktopaya, and āṇavopāya. The one above these 3 is anupāya - where nothing need be done.

Now before we go deeper and wider we need to be mindful that different sadhu's have different apparatus (for lack of a better word) that is operating. That is, certain dhāranā-s (meditations) may fit one sadhu better then another due to their advancement.

It is most highly desirable to be in this condition for anupāya-s application. I want to mention this as this position nothing need be done because the accumulation of ones practice (in this life or many pasts lives) brings the sadhu to a ripe status in this life, where no further upāya-s ( means) are needed. A most desirable state. In MHO this does not occur be happenstance.

For the others i.e. sāmbhavopāya, śāktopaya, and āṇavopāya, various techniques upāya-s, are brought for their use and development and unfoldment, lakṣayet lakṣyam uttaman, for the Supreme to be realized.
So for each method I almost agree with the definitions provided, yet there are finer details that need to be discussed to bring out the hidden values.


Sāmbhavopāya is (for) the one who preserves thoughtlessness. The one that maintains this continuity and by the grace of the master¹, one enters into that transcendental state. This continuity is also called icchopāya by Svami Laksmanjoo because it originates in icchā śakti. Svamiji says the means (upāya) is meant - you must only reside in meant. It is up to sadhu to come to this state of 'meant' or continuity of thoughtlessness.

How does this happen? practice. This is why there are different dhāranā-s for different points in ones development. what does the wise suggest for this practice? Withdraw, then withdraw from the withdrawal. This cultures transcendental consciousness. This can be developed with various dhāranā-s.

This is also the wisdom given to Sri Devi in Vijñāna Bhairava. The upāya-s, to a wise-eye sees them grouped for different sādhaka's. And pending ones development ( this has been my experience) the upāya-s work for the level of consciousness of the sādhaka. It's a natural quality control system.

As mentioned by MahaHrada several posts ago, the upāya-s are not generalized for every one. IMHO trying one with no results one may achieve little results (or maybe a headache).
Just like with siddhi's - we know all of the siddhi-s, yet they are totally dormant to the inept person without the proper level of consciousness - this apparatus I mentioned. This apparatus is consciousness that is developed.

So pending ones level of progress, of pure awareness that is available, so comes the results. Entry level is āṇavopāya, next is śāktopaya then sāmbhavopāya. We can review what-goes-with-what i.e. uccāra ( breathing), karaṇa, dhyāna and the like for each. Its not a free-for-all bouncing from one to another.

More as we proceed; lets stop here for now ( long posts are not attractive to the mind). Let those that wish to contribute add to the conversation. I do not consider myself the final authority on this matter.


pranams
1. Master here can be the grace of the guru, or of the Divine. Yet in each case, guru or Divine, it is Divine. It is sāyuja or union with the Divine this is to occur. to this we say Jai guru dev and know that it is hailing the Divine in the Guru and the Guru in the Divine.