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Thread: No Room for Hell

  1. #1
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    No Room for Hell

    I have read on some blogs that Hinduism doesn't really teach that there is a Hell. Triloka mentions heaven but not Hell, which I think is significant. I believe that the concept of Hell came from outside Hinduism. As I have posted before, Abrahamic faiths teach a form of faith where God behaves like an autocrat and we are his subjects or slaves. You better do as he says or he will punish you in hell! God is a torturer! God is Saddam Husain or a Hitler! What a revolting image!

    Hinduism has never taught fear of God. What is there to fear of my Rama? My Rama will never hurt anyone. But this is where the concept of Rebirth and Karma comes in. For christians who do not believe in rebirth, they need a Hell, but for Hindus, Hell becomes redundant. Besides we already know that a Parent or teacher does not punish nor Judge. God is our parent, she wants to teach the way to Moksha by becoming better humans. Would a parent torture her own child? Each life gives us an opportunity to learn. If we had done evil things in a past life, in this life, we get the opportunity to learn the evil of our past ways. It is very important to realize that this is not a punishment, you learn nothing from punishment and pain. Sending criminals to Jail accomplishes nothing, they become even worse criminals.

    There was a news story recently that here in one American jail the inmates were exposed to the Buddhist Vipassana Yoga. There was a dramatic change in their outlook and behaviour, they became less violent, more peaceful. Unfortunately the christian church stepped in and stopped the yoga practice because it was un-christian! These people will stoop so low, it's so disgusting.

    And this is what God will do, she will teach us to become better people and learn the error of our ways by her teachings, not by beatings and punishments!

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    Post Re: No Room for Hell

    Namaste Ramaraksha,

    Hindu dharma is NOT without a concept of Hell, although I am not sure what kind of “other world” you might be imagining as the christian imagining of the dark earthy place where things suffer and die repeated deaths until they pass the acid test of yama ~ i.e. bhUloka or mRtyuloka, the world of yama and the vAjAs, ruled by the vajra of ugra (the terrible bolt of the formidable/wrathful/mighty god rudra).

    vaidika brAhmaNa dharma teaches a form of faith where the will of yama is inviolable, and the inhabitants of mRtyuloka must obey, or risk being sent down (once again) to suffer life in another mortal incarnation.

    In Hindu dharma, the jIva learns by repeated lives (and thus by repeated deaths), until advaitam is truly known.

    It is wise to follow the restraints of yama, without which moksha (liberation from rebirth, and thus from subsequent deaths) is impossible.
    Last edited by sarabhanga; 15 July 2008 at 07:08 PM.

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    Re: No Room for Hell

    I hope I am not derailing this thread.
    In my personal conviction that God is Love only, I find it difficult to think of and find it hard to believe dualities of Heaven and hell. I think these exist in both “religious” Christianity and Hinduism (and others as well) only as interpreted by most people. Perhaps these are included in the scriptures with good intention to keep people in trac otherwise this world would be chaotic with no moral codes. But if we start to define God in terms of law or dharma or justice it becomes more of human understanding and thinking. I do not find this concept is wrong but it does limit the “unfathomable” love of God.

    I find your statement.. …vaidika brAhmaNa dharma teaches a form of faith where the will of yama is inviolable, and the inhabitants of mRtyuloka must obey, or risk being sent down (once again) to suffer life in another mortal incarnation…. ….again nothing wrong, but still a human understanding.

    Sarabanga: please explain to me: You stated “In Hindu dharma, the jIva learns by repeated lives (and thus by repeated deaths), until advaitam is truly known” My question to you is how good a learning is good enough to know the advaitam ( I understand you mean Moksa or salvation).

    Love, always VC
    Last edited by vcindiana; 12 July 2008 at 07:37 AM.

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    Post Re: No Room for Hell

    Namaste VC,

    Return to mRtyuloka (reincarnation) is determined by the conviction of dvaitam, while eternal liberation from mRtyuloka (moksha) is determined by the conviction of advaitam. And the judgment is surely made by yama.

    Do you consider that yama is a human fiction, simply a moral code to keep society in order, unconnected with divine love?

    The significance of yama has been explained many times, especially with regard to “love”.

    I find your statement …
    vaidika brAhmaNa dharma teaches a form of faith where the will of yama is inviolable, and the inhabitants of mRtyuloka must obey, or risk being sent down (once again) to suffer life in another mortal incarnation
    … again nothing wrong, but still a human understanding.
    This is simply a statement of reincarnation.

    My question to you is how good a learning is good enough to know the advaitam.
    The experience of advaitam should be lesson enough, but without yama the yoga is impossible. And then (taken to heart and sustained beyond death) moksha should be guaranteed. But only yama makes the final judgment ~ when you meet him, you will know.

  5. #5

    Re: No Room for Hell

    Hi,

    My first post in this forum, which does look very interesting.

    Hell is a concept which is not there in Hinduism IMO, mainly because we believe in the concept of rebirth, where reward and suffering for our past actions will be taken care of. The life which we will get due to our own karma will I feel, make a Heaven or a Hell for ourselves.

    But a Hell as the Christian Books say, I don't think so.
    Silence is more musical than any song

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    Re: No Room for Hell

    VCI & TGW: I keep saying the same thing, look for God in your heart, not in a book.

    Hell originated with Primitive man, when primitive man first heard thunder and lightning he thought "god" must be angry with him. Sure enough, fire and destruction followed. To this day, primitive faiths teach this fear of God. From fear of God came this concept of hell, where "god" will torture people, please this is a human concept.

    I ask Sarabhanga, who is your IshtaDaivam? Mine is Rama, for the life of me, I cannot accept my Rama torturing anyone, however bad he may be. Please see that this is a human concept, that's what we do with criminals here on earth, because that is all we can do. Lock them up, throw them in jail and hope they get better, but they get worse not better.

    How can you think God will stoop to such dirty methods as torturing people? God a Saddam Husain? Is this what you think of God? Don't you think she has better methods than this? With one thought she can make a person like Hitler someone who would never hurt a fly, or come to think of it, vice versa. With one thought she can make you forget everything that you ever knew in your life. Don't you think that she can use better methods than torture?

    To understand this better, we must realize the difference between our view of God and the Abrahamic one. They view God as a King or Master, making them subjects, servants or slaves. We view God as a parent or teacher. They fear God, they use words like Sin, punishment, judgement & commands. All these words are associated with a master or king. A king will punish, he will torture even good people, if he thinks they are against him.

    We are not them, does a mother torture her own child? Besides with karma and rebirth, Hell is unnecessary. We are reborn to learn God's lessons anew. Please do not talk of punishment in a new life. A parent does not punish, a teacher does not intend to hurt his students, he wants you to learn.

    The Abrahamic faiths do not teach karma or rebirth, they are stuck with Hell, they are stuck with a Saddam Husain!
    Last edited by satay; 05 August 2008 at 11:13 PM.

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    Re: No Room for Hell

    Actually, there is a Hell in Hinduism. It is called naraka, and the Garuda Purana describes the sins that will result in one's being taken to naraka after death. Maybe that's where Hitler and Saddam Hussein went after they died, or maybe not. We have no way of knowing. However, naraka is not eternal, like the hell of Christianity and Islam - those in naraka will eventually get out and back onto the spiritual path.

    n the Malay language, which borrows a lot of its vocabulary from Sanskrit, the word for 'hell' is neraka. So Hinduism does have a concept of Hell.

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    Re: No Room for Hell

    Scott: This is not about what is in a book, believe me I do realise that some Hindu sastras do speak of Naraka.

    Please think of the point I am trying to get across, if you believe in naraka, are you not saying that there is God who hurts people? The example of Hitler or Saddam Husain does not apply to us, they are not Hindus.

    I repeat that our view of God differs from the Abrahamic one - we view God as a parent or teacher, they view him as a King or Master. A master will torture his subjects or slaves, hence words like Fear of God, sin, punishment, judgement, commandments etc. Notice that these words do not show up in Hinduism.

    A hindu should never be taught to fear God, the thought of God should always bring a smile to your face.

    A student repeatedly asks his teacher about something he does not understand. The teacher that loses patience and beats the student is not a teacher, he is a master. Basically you are saying that is what God is doing when you talk of Naraka.

    A real teacher will take the time to explain the lesson with patience and understanding. Ultimately even the teacher can only do so much, the rest is upto the student. This is where karma and rebirth come in. Instead of torturing us, Hinduism teaches us that we are born again and again, each new life giving us a different experience as we learn the lessons of God.

    In this life I remained single, maybe in my past life I had 10 kids, in the next maybe I will be an atheist, in the next a gay person, the hunted in one, the hunter in the next.

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    Re: No Room for Hell

    We cannot really speculate on the nature of God - we have to know from what the knowers of God say or its equivalent through scriptures.

    The hell is really out there. We cannot wish it away by arguments like God is a parent etc. If God were such a parent as you imagine then even in this world there would be happiness all around. How do you explain so much misery that we face? So why cant a hell exist as well?

    In reality, the truth about all this world is not what we see. God's purpose is very different from any human understanding. God has no intentions to hurt, test or punish anyone like most missionary religions like us to believe. In reality, there is no misery out here except for those who have not understood the truth. Vedanta declares that the world is a manifestation of brahman so how can there be any sorrow here? We need to come out of individual way of thinking and expand our knowledge to universality. In that universal perspective the real auspicious nature of the world is well understood. As long as one continues to have the short sighted individual knowledge and does not expand into the collective knowledge of God, the hell really exists for you and you msy have to suffer there if you indulge in inhuman acts.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

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    Re: No Room for Hell

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    Sudarshan writes
    How do you explain so much misery that we face?
    simple - by the actions we choose.


    pranams
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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