lord shiva

[Atman]

"if one has attained to Shiva consciousness.."
To understand the consciousness of Mahavatar Babaji (sage who is living in his physical body for the past 2,000 years), is beyond an ordinary human consciousness, then to understand the conscious of Lord Shiva .. Shiva consciousness.... I think we have made terms like Krishna consciousness and Shiva consciousness and love to use them. There is no need to understand Shiva consciousness. Its a state of being. When one will be there, he'll know it. And there won't be any questions left to ask. Just pure bliss. Beyond the three gunas. That's why we say Shiva sarva mayam.
Namah Shivaya!
Yogkriya

Does this mean Shiva consciousness is more elavated than Mahavatar Babaji? But when we say 'pure bliss,' is this the bliss of brahma sukra, because Lord Shiva also chants the name of Lord Rama, so he also derives more enjoyment from Ram/Krishna.

[santosh]

Hare Krishna everybody,

Namaste Santosh,

I am sorry for wasting your time. Just wanted to inform that the names atanu (and pratanu) appear in Veda.

Om

This is what I was referring to - blind translation without understanding the subject matter. The word "pratanu" in Veda does not refer to you, the person whose name is Atanu, but out of incorrect translation, you think it refers to you.

I quoted that Sri Padma Puran refers to Srila Madvacharya as a bonafide acharya. That's why I put that verse. It legitimises commentaries of Srila Madhavacharya. Otherwise anyone can say anything, what's the validity?

The translation and understanding of of "tasmAdAtmAnamevAgre rudraM sampUjayAmyaham"
provided by Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Maharaj is the correct one. If you don't want to accept it, it is your choice. Please don't call names such as "convoluted". Just becuase you disagree doesn't mean you have to blasphem.

you may be surprised to know that Soma (Shiva with Uma) worship is known as Vaisnav worship in Satapatha Brahmana.

We are not concerned of the opinions if they are not coming from authorized Sampradaya. What is the background of Satapatha Brahmana and which Sampradaya they come from? what is their philosophy? Dvaita/Advaita/Vishista Dvaita?

You should know that rAma is agni. And Soma is called Hari in Rg Veda

The words used in Vedic literature must be understood in proper context. Lord Rama is not Agni. Sri Agni Dev is a devata from Svarga Loka, which is in the 10th planetory system in our universe of 14 levels. The 14 th one is the Highest - Brahma Loka also known as Satya Loka. Also Soma is not Lord Hari. Sri Somadeva is the presiding Deity of the Moon planet, just as mother Srimati Bhumi Devi or Prithvi Devi is the presiding Deity of earth planet. The Moon planet is part of the heavenly planetory system. Sri Somadeva and Sri Agnideva is of Jiva-Tattva not Vishnu-Tattva.

Just as the word Bhagavan is used in referring to Lord Krishna/Rama/Vishnu and also when referring to Lord Shiva and also when referring to Lord Indra, Lord Brahma and Sri Narada Muni. That does not mean Sri Narada Muni or Lord Brahma or Lord Indra are God. Therefore the scriptural text must be translated and understood in the proper overall context.

[santosh]

Namaste Santosh,

SambhUtAm means that which is created; produced; one in whom anything has arisen. sambhutAM is to undergo union with the five elements. The above word has been used in Upanishads to indicate birth of pancha bhutas from Vishnu or Vishnu associated with panchbhutas.

Whereas the primary meaning of sambhu is parent/progenitor and it is Noun for a facet of Lord Shiva.

You yourself agree that primary meaning of Sambhu refers to Lord Shiva.

Lord Shiva is an expansion of Lord Vishnu for the performance of the work of destruction. The translation in itself is clear. Where is the scope for misunderstanding?

SambhUtAm means that which is created; produced; one in whom anything has arisen. sambhutAM is to undergo union with the five elements. The above word has been used in Upanishads to indicate birth of pancha bhutas from Vishnu or Vishnu associated with panchbhutas.

"Sambhutam" when referred in the Upanishad, it may mean certain thing. However this verse is from Brahma Samhita. To use meaning of this word in the context of the Upanishad and to substitute in the context of Brahma Samhita is incorrect and it is leading to wrong conclusion for you.

What the verse above says is that the created things are different from the creator; like a wave is different from the ocean.

This is just a total speculation which has no basis whatsoever in the original verse. Where are the words for wave, ocean etc in the original verse? Original verse uses the words kshiram (milk), dadhi (yogurt)etc.

Like I said earlier, I certainly did not wish to take part in the discussion in this particular thread because it is not based on acurate translation of any scripture nor reference to valid commentary from a bonafide Sampradaya. I posted replies becuase the post by atanu was offensive to Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Maharaj calling his translation convoluted. There was no reason to include the text from Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Maharaj's book for the purpose of blaspheming it. Maharaj wrote the book about Lord Shiva to glorify the personality of Lord Shiva which is the normal tendancy for all bonafide Vaishnavas. All Vaishnavas coming from all bonafide Sampradayas hold Lord Shiva very dear. I just wanted to put that perspective in the service of the readers of this discussion thread.

Hare Krishna!

[atanu]

Does this mean Shiva consciousness is more elavated than Mahavatar Babaji? But when we say 'pure bliss,' is this the bliss of brahma sukra, because Lord Shiva also chants the name of Lord Rama, so he also derives more enjoyment from Ram/Krishna.

Dear Atmaram,


Narayana is Guru of those (like me) who worship Rudra in their Heart as per Narayana's teaching:

tasmAdAtmAnamevAgre rudraM sampUjayAmyaham ( I worship Rudra first as my own Self).

Similarly rAma (Agni-Rudra) is guru of those who worship Shiva Linga, since rAma taught so by worshipping Mahesvara at Rameswaram.



Now, if Shiva chants Ram Ram, take Shiva as Guru and chant Ram Ram. But alas, you seem to have your constant attention on your virya (i am sure because of its constant loss) and the status of divinities. You have forgotten, Guru Brahma, Guru Vishnu, Guru Mahesvara. It is upto you whether you will adhere to your ego or to the following teaching of Shri Krishna

Whoever knows him, knows me. Whoever follows him, follows me. (Though) the world, in all its actions, worships two Gods Rudra and Narayana, it is actually One only who is worshipped.

Mahesvara is summit of all summits and beyond summits. He is leader of all leaders and beyond the definition of pati (being advaita and parastaad).

Svet Upanishad

6.7 tamiishvaraaNaaM paramaM maheshvara.n

ta.n devataanaaM parama.n cha daivatam.h .

patiM patiinaaM paramaM parastaad.h\-

vidaama devaM bhuvaneshamiiDyam.h .. 7

6.7 WE WILL KNOW THIS MIGHTIEST ONE WHO IS FAR ABOVE ALL THE MIGHTY – THIS SUMMIT OF THE GODS AND THEIR GODHEAD, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, WHO TOWERETH HIGH ABOVE ALL SUMMIT AND GREATNESSES. LET US LEARN OF GOD FOR HE IS THIS UNIVERSES' MASTER AND ALL SHALL ADORE HIM.

Om Namah Shivaya

Shivaya is paramaM parastAd -- beyond the param and also paramaM maheshvara.

[atanu]

That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the shivoadvaitam. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

[Atman]

[quote=atanu;26420]

Dear Atmaram,



. But alas, you seem to have your constant attention on your virya (i am sure because of its constant loss) Mahesvara is summit of all summits and beyond summits. He is leader of all leaders and beyond the definition of pati (being advaita and parastaad).

Not true, I haven't had any waking slips yet. I am more concerned about controlling desire in sleep though.

[atanu]

Not true, I haven't had any waking slips yet. I am more concerned about controlling desire in sleep though.

Namaste Atman,

Your openness is refreshing. I think, kAma/love/desire/warmth, being the primeval cause of the grand show, is hardest to get over, till Self realisation. This is last to go. We lesser souls suffer from bouts of lust and lasciviousness but do not openly express it. From what is stated, you must be quite advanced. Controlling desire in sleep is possible for those who never sleep, however, since in sleep, the volitional control is absent.

Best Wishes.

Atanu

[Atman]

That is correct in a sense, but even if one could resist and control the dream in sleep, this is an advanced stage- which shows that one has good control over lust and desire.

[atanu]

That is correct in a sense, but even if one could resist and control the dream in sleep, this is an advanced stage- which shows that one has good control over lust and desire.

Dear Atman,

Many of us believe that the states of dream and the deep sleep must be understood, by first realising the waking state as of ONE agnivaisvanaro and not made up of discrete bodies (which are mere superpositions of sense impressions). Thereby the lust and the ignorance will be shed as mere misconceptions.

However, best wishes for your success in your chosen way.

Om

[Yogkriya]

Om

Iskcon and Gaudiyas often fabricate scriptural interpretations, versus and explanations twisting everything as pro Krishna and showing Shiva as a servant lower being and that its not intelligent to worship him but just show casual respect.

Here's an example of Shiva bashing by Madhavananda dasa and consequent replies by Shaiva devotees. I wrote as "Chhenu"
You are welcome to comment too.

http://gopalkeerty.wordpress.com/200...a/#comment-190