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Thread: Sat Chit Ekam Brahma

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    Sat Chit Ekam Brahma

    i.e matter and conciousness are the same brahman. This famous mantra appears in mahanirvana tantra and is one of the hallmarks of paradvaita (perhaves ).

    Creation (or it's cycles) is eternal and creation is brahman (or saguna brahman). All gods are aspects of this universe (at all levels - not just the physical universe). The very core ingredients of the universe are the 8 para shaktis. Together the 8 shaktis in union is the divine mother kali (and tara and tripura and ...). All gods are partial aspects of the divine mother. All phisical forces are aspects of the 8 para shaktis (not in union).

    Though creation is eternal, divine mother has an unborn aspect called nirguna brahman (or rather divine mother is the born aspect of brahman) ~ that which is at the same time seperate from creation, though also being the creation. This gives the transcendental aspect of brahman.

    My question to advaitins is why do you think we need this transcendental aspect of god. Except for the emotional satisfaction of theism as opposed to agnosticsm or atheism, what else does nirguna brahman supply??

    Transcendentalism when projected into the realm of a sole judgemental personal god has caused havoc with the real aim of spirituality and have single handedly lead to enormous suffering. Transcendentalism can be a easy tool of deception.

    Now that people are starting to think more, why do we need a transcendental god?? he may or may no be there-but surely has little to do with our emancipiation.

    Any thoughts???

    As a shaktibadi~I don't find the need to ackowledge or to reject the trancendental brahman. It is of little use to me.
    Last edited by Singhi Kaya; 09 June 2006 at 02:28 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: Sat Chit Ekam Brahma

    In my opinion, the Nirguna aspect is not needed in any system of philosophy. It is not useful as a concept, but it is the message of Upanishads and the ultimate goal of mankind. The main advantage I see to Nirguna Brahman being a concept is that it makes God universal, and applicable to all mankind. It puts an end to all bigotry and intolerance in the name of God. If you view that the Gods of every religion to be just a different view of the Nirguna Brahman( who has no intrinsic model), all religions are immediately reconciled. Concept of Personal God often leads to hatred, intolerance, fear etc. If a personal God were the ultimate truth, he must be plain evil to allow all these illogical things in the world. What is the explanation given by Vaishnavas to this phenomenon of evil? Nothing, except they hide under some catch word called lila, or sport. This is as good as inexplicability given that no reason can be attributed to this apparently harmful lila.

    It is sometimes irritating to hear people making fun of this aspect of advaita. No sane or informed advaitin will ever reject the personal aspect of God. Saguna Brahman is not any illusion as the opponents like to claim. He is considered as real as the world and the people around you. Do any see advaitns claim that all these people are illusions in day to day life? Not even a mukta will claim so in interest of others - that is why many philosophers have preached non advaita even though they might have realized only advaita.

    Every thing that is applicable in dualism is applicable to advaita - Bhakti, Shraddha, grace of God etc - except that all these are transcended ultimately. It is sheer ignorance and arrogance of people that make them deliberately oppose these concepts. If there were no advaita, Hinduism would be as intolerable as the Abrahamic religions.

  3. #3

    Re: Sat Chit Ekam Brahma

    Namaste truthseker,

    Thanks for your reply. I agree with you that nirguna brahman does provide an unifying aspect to hinduism and also helps to take on the philosophical challenge of transcendentalism.

    I was observing that in terms of spiritual progression transcendentalism has little value - understanding the saguna brahma can one accent the knowledge ladder to the ultimate truth. This ofcourse my humble observation with little understanding.

    However an impersonal nirguna brahman also pose no threat to society as a personal yet above creation/creator God.

    Also while posting I was motivated by the fact that without niguna brahman lord buddha's message very well coincides with advaita/paradvaita sanatan dharma.

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    Post Re: Sat Chit Ekam Brahma

    Namaste Singhi,

    Sat is Prajna, Cit is Taijasa, and Ananda is Vaishvanara; while the Turiya is undifferentiated “Sat-Cit-Ananda”.

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    Re: Sat Chit Ekam Brahma

    Quote Originally Posted by Singhi Kaya
    .

    My question to advaitins is why do you think we need this transcendental aspect of god. Except for the emotional satisfaction of theism as opposed to agnosticsm or atheism, what else does nirguna brahman supply??

    -------
    Namaskar,

    Nirguna Brahman supplies everything. Everything exists in air, which supports all. But does a common man understand it till his breath is choked? Similarly, everything exists on and because of an unchanging entity. It is not a requirement but it is the substratum and foundation.

    All that you percieve to be changing, how do you percieve, if there is no constant seer how do you know the ever changing flux? However, without Vedas and Upanishads telling us about it, we would'nt know.

    Why we need it? To attain moksha. It is to be known. It is your Self -- unchanging seer, enjoyer, permitter. What you know without knowing the Self?

    Nirguna is desireless but all desires and consequent happenings are happening in it only. For personal welfare and for universal welfare, it must be known. It is the storehouse of Shakti -- even to propitiate Shakti, one must know it.

    Isha Upanishad

    4. Unmoving, It is one, faster than the mind. The senses cannot reach It, for It proceeds ahead. Remaining static It overtakes others that run. On account of Its presence, Matarsiva (the wind) conducts the activities of beings.
    5. It moves; It moves not. It is far; It is near. It is within all; It is without all.
    6. He who perceives all beings in the Self alone, and the Self in all beings, does not entertain any hatred on account of that perception.
    7. When a man realises that all beings are but the Self, what delusion is there, what grief, to that perceiver of oneness?
    8. That (Self) is all-pervading, radiant, bodiless, soreless, without sinews, pure, untainted by sin, the all-seer, the lord of the mind, transcendent and self-existent. That (Self) did allot in proper order to the eternal Prajapatis known as samvalsara (year) their duties.
    ---------------
    14. He who knows both the Unmanifested and the destructible (Hiranyagarbha) together, transcends death by the (worship of) the destructible and attains immortality by the (worship of ) the Unmanifested.


    So must know THAT. It is the intelligence everywhere.

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    Arrow Re: Sat Chid Ekam Brahma

    Quote Originally Posted by Singhi Kaya
    i.e matter and conciousness are the same brahman. This famous mantra appears in mahanirvana tantra and is one of the hallmarks of paradvaita (perhaves ).
    Namaste,

    Paradvaita doesn't have a concept of "matter" , for everything is Consciousness alone.
    This is the meaning of this Brahma-vidya of MNT: "Reality is Consciousness alone, Brahman." Consequently, MNT identifies this Brahman with Adyakali, which clearly shows that its view of Brahman is not a Vedantic one, but Tantric.

    We may also say that Sat=Prakasha and Chit=Vimarsha (as Awareness), and they are One Brahman, the Absolute Reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singhi Kaya
    Though creation is eternal, divine mother has an unborn aspect called nirguna brahman (or rather divine mother is the born aspect of brahman) ~ that which is at the same time seperate from creation, though also being the creation. This gives the transcendental aspect of brahman.
    Nirguna-brahman is just a one pole of the same Reality, while Mahamaya is another one.
    That is, there is no hierarchy of these, but perfect union.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singhi Kaya
    My question to advaitins is why do you think we need this transcendental aspect of god. Except for the emotional satisfaction of theism as opposed to agnosticsm or atheism, what else does nirguna brahman supply??
    Nirguna-brahman (Prakasha of Tantras) is a logically necessary concept. It is impossible to build up a system without an apparent distinction of a sort between Shiva and Shakti.

    However Nirguna as such does not "bring a satisfaction of theism" since God is always Shiva ("Blessed" or "Good"). Both Tantras and Upanishads (Shvetashvatara and Mandukya for example) attribute this title to the Godhead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singhi Kaya
    Transcendentalism when projected into the realm of a sole judgemental personal god has caused havoc with the real aim of spirituality and have single handedly lead to enormous suffering. Transcendentalism can be a easy tool of deception.
    Anything can be a tool for deception when used for that .

    Personal God who judges is clearly Saguna-brahman if we see this from Vedanta viewpoint. Shaivism accepts Ishvara as the Ultimate Reality, but Ishvara is the One creative Consciousness — whom can He judge?

    Also, don't thing that semitic religions are that primitive as compared to hinduism. Verily they are [in general] not less developed in their metaphysics and theology. It is wrong to compare, for instance, a folk islam with sophisticated Vedanta — one has to compare it with folk Hindu politheism. And for Vedanta or Paradvaita Islam has Sufi doctrines, as well as jews have the Kabbalah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singhi Kaya
    Now that people are starting to think more, why do we need a transcendental god?? he may or may no be there-but surely has little to do with our emancipiation.
    As a Tantrika, i may agree in a sense — the whole sadhana depends solely upon Shakti. That is why in Krama and Kadi-Shrividya the Absolute = the Goddess.

    However, this Goddess of Consciousness is TOTAL, She is BOTH transcendent and immanent.

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