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Thread: Revisitng Turīya

  1. #21
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    Re: Revisitng Turīya

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~


    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post

    Yogis and munis, however, as you have said, are permanently established in turIya, so they can get in and out of thoughts that arise in their shuddha manas (pure mind), without losing the awareness of turIya.
    Here is a summary of the four states of existence for quick reference:

    States of Existence
    • waking, jAgrat, vishva/vaishvanAra (relating to mortal life)
    • dreaming, svapna, taijasa (luminous)
    • deep sleep, suShupti, prajna (consciousness)
    • fourth, turIya, turIya (fourth and of four parts)

    Namaste
    It is very interesting to note how wake, dream and sleep have a different meanings when viewed from a yogī/yoginī perspective i.e. their practice.

    When the yogī is in meditation (dhāraṇā) it is like jāgrat or waking. This is at the beginning of dhāraṇā where the yogī begins and is one-pointed on his/her practice.
    When this one-pointed-ness is repeated i.e. the continuity of practice on a mantra or concept or idea, that is the practice remains unbroken , for the yogī this is svapna or dream. Why so? It is more refined and introverted awareness as the yogī goes inwards.
    Now as this inward march continues the yogī transcends both the objective and subjective world. What is left is samādhi - just pure being (sattā), pure consciousness, pure awareness. for the yogī this is like suṣupti - dreamless state we call deep sleep. Yet for the yogī he/she resides in perfection - some may call this turya.

    The yogī that is able to do this march with intent ( that is active vs. passive ) is considered a vīra वीर -hero.
    When the vīra establishes this state of being and it remains there on its own in wake , dream and sleep he/she becomes established in THAT which is beyond the 4th, and is called turyātitaṁ. This is the Independent state that was mentioned in the post above this one.

    It is Independent because it never overshadowed by the other transitory states of consciousness - wake, dream or sleep. S/he is filled with ānanda rasa - the bliss ( joy) of this level of existence, Universal Self.

    pranams
    Last edited by yajvan; 09 December 2008 at 11:43 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #22
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    Re: Revisitng Turīya

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    When the vīra establishes this state of being and it remains there on its own in wake , dream and sleep he/she becomes established in THAT which is beyond the 4th, and is called turyātitaṁ. This is the Independent state that was mentioned in the last post

    Namaste

    What of this state of Being (sattā), being established and stablised? The Śiva sūtras, 12th śloka says the yogī is filled with vismaya which is wonder, surprise, amazement.

    The 12th śloka reads vismayo yogabhūmikā¹. Svāmī Lakṣman-jū suggests that the yogī entering into the Consciousness is joyful and has an uncommonly charming experience. What I find interesting is the notion that this condition is never satiated. The yogī, says Svāmī-ji, is bathed with amazement of this joy. This yogī has become one with the Supreme, limitless-ness itself. For me this then makes sense that the wonder is there along with the uplifment of joy that does not subside.

    Its said in the Kulayukta śāstra , When yogī-s percieve the state of the SELF by their own effort then in their own SELF they perceive the fullness of wonder filled with joy.
    The Spanda kārikā-s say, for him being wonderstruck and filled with wonderful joy there is no possibility of traveling the path of repeated births and deaths.

    pranams

    words
    • yoga योग - the act of yoking, joining;union
    • vismaya विस्मय wonder , surprise , amazement; free from pride or arrogance
    • bhūmi भूमि - place, position, posture
    • bhūmikā भूमिका - a spot, or a place.
    Last edited by yajvan; 12 November 2008 at 05:29 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #23
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    Re: Revisitng Turīya

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    The yogī, says Svāmī-ji, is bathed with amazement of this joy. This yogī has become one with the Supreme, limitless-ness itself
    Namaste
    What then occurs for this individual who is no longer 'individual'. The Śiva sūtras, 13th śloka says, iccāśakttirūmā kumāri . The yogī/yoginī's will (iccā) becomes the energy (śakti) of the Supreme. The yogī/yoginī becomes ūmā and kumāri.

    Many at first glance will say, ahhh! the individual becomes ūmaऊम, a companion, the helper, friend. Some others may say this is umā उमा, wife of śiva ( pārvatī ). Both explainations fit the sūtra well. Yet Svāmī Lakṣman-jū tells us in this case umā refers to the indepentent consciousness of the Supreme called svātantraya.
    This refers back to the first sutra offered, caitanyātmā. Svāmī-ji comments and says caitanya means complete independence, svātantraya. This is at the crux of attaining this level of being (sattā).

    What then of the word kumāri ? The will ( iccā) of the yogī/yoginī is called kumārī¹. Svāmī-ji tells us that this word stems from krīḍā क्रीडा, which means to sport, play, amusement. I see the connection with kumāra & kumārī (boy and girl children) as their time is that of sport and play (krīḍā). Svāmī-ji comments and says this kumārī then is that energy ( śakti ) that plays and sports in the Universe creating, protecting and destroying.

    Svāmī-ji extends one's thinking and suggests kumārī¹ may be understood as kuṁ mārayati. He defines kuṁ and differented perception ( duality of perception) and mārayati as that which destroys this duality.

    Svāmī-ji extends/explains the sūtra in two ways:
    His will is the energy of Lord Śiva and it is called ūmā and it is called kumāri.
    -or-
    For such a yogi his will is one with the energy of Lord Śiva , unobstructable, completely independent , always given to play.

    pranams

    words
    • kumārī कुमारी - has multiple meadings (as usual!). A young girl from 1 to 12 years of age; a meter; a certain type of plant; a river flowing; the center of the universe; for me, the notion of the young girl makes sense as there is her sport and play ant her young age , and being a woman is considered śakti, energy.
    • kumāra कुमार - a boy, youth, son; also means pure gold; another name for agni; a prince , heir-apparent associated in the kingdom with the reigning monarch.
    • kumāra is also ku+māra - ku which implies deterioration + māra is killing or destroying.
    Last edited by yajvan; 09 December 2008 at 10:22 AM. Reason: spelling
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #24
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    Re: Revisitng Turīya

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    Namaste

    Withdraw then withdraw from the withdraw. We know that these words as sutras ( or stitches, snippets). So people ask withdraw from what? Withdraw from the parts (aṅga) and experience the whole,(aṅgī); then withdraw from the withdrawal i.e. withdraw from that whole or aṅgī, and come back to the parts. Now what's that again?

    Withdraw from the duality of life, the parts, diversity (aṅga) and experience fullness, bhuma, turīya ( aṅgī ), then come back to diversity

    This notion of 'withdraw' is another way of saying transcend. Do we find this in the agama-s? If we look to the Vijāna Bhairava 149th kārikā
    it says:
    When all five elements (paca mahābhūta-s i.e. earth, water, fire, air, space) all the organs (paca tanmātra-s or smell, taste, form, etc) , organs of perception ( the paca jānendriya-s i.e. eye or organ or seeing, ear or organ of hearing, etc. ) including the mind (manas) are offered in the fire of the great abode of the void (mahā-śūnyālaye) using the sacrificial ladle ( srukpātra) of awareness, that is in the real sense, the great fire (agni) sacrifice (havana).

    This outlines the sacrifice of transcending ( withdrawing ) from the relative field of creation i.e. the space of size, shape, time, material and residing in the the other fullness of pure consciousness. The relative field of the individual of the senses, the mind, the organ of the senses become the havi, the offering.

    This is the process of transcending (withdraw) immersion into pure consciousness, then returning ( withdraw from the withdrawal) to the field of the senses, of space, time, cause, size, big and small.

    One may ask then why return at all? why not just stay immersed in the Absolute? This will be the subject for the next post.


    pranams

    words
    • āgama आगम - what has come down from tradition; śāstra-s
    • withdraw and withdrawal is also āgamana आगमन. It means coming or approaching then returning. It is rooted in āgam, to come near or fall into, then to leave or return.

    Last edited by yajvan; 11 December 2008 at 04:53 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #25
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    Re: Revisitng Turīya

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~

    Namaste

    This is the process of transcending (withdraw) immersion into pure consciousness, then returning ( withdraw from the withdrawal) to the field of the senses, of space, time, cause, size, big and small.

    One may ask then why return at all? why not just stay immersed in the Absolute?
    When one is in the pure state, samādhi¹ one is residing in undifferentiated consciousness. This is the wholeness found in that state. Yet Śiva is also found in and throughout the universe. He is both the absolute and the relative field of life, of creation. What needs to occur? We withdraw from that withdrawal, from the Absolute and bring some of that undifferentiated consciousness that has been experienced back with us, back into the duality of life.

    This begins to become established in our awareness over time. We are bringing more of that undifferentiated awareness and its qualities of peace, unboundedness, clarity, etc. back into the field of action, of duality. More of that joy ( cidānanda) comes back with the native and becomes part of one's being while living and working within the relative field of life.

    The subjective experience of sameness, of even-ness is brought into the world of action. Some say we are bringing more of the subjective experience of samādhi into the objective field of creation ( matter, size, shape, feelings, emotions, etc). We find this idea called out in the Vijñāna Bhairava 106th kārikā:
    When yogī-s ( and yoginī's) perceive or contact (the word used is sambandha&#185 the objective world is not different; their subjective experience is held i.e. is not overshadowed by the experience of duality.

    What is occuring ? we are pouring pure consciousness into the relative field of life. This relative field of life helps establish higher levels of consciousness by allowing us to 'exercise' this svātrantraya (independent) consciousness within the daily activities of life.

    Yet note the following...Śiva is found both in the depths of undifferentiated consciousness some call samādhi or niriddha ( effortless one-pointedness) and in the multiplicity of creation. By establishing the Supreme (anuttara) independent (svātrantraya) consciousness (cetana) within our daily active lives it allows us to view, appreciate and comprehend the Supreme residing right here before our eyes, some say were able to see 'THAT' in 'this' - Brahman in the field of every day life.

    My teacher used to use the analogy of washing a yellow sari¹. It would be washed and then hung in the brightness of the full day Sun. Over time what becomes of the cloth? It becomes white from the cleaning and the brightness of the rays of the Sun.

    What was he telling us? Washing a yellow sari, he was inferring śarīra¹. It would be washed (transcending) and then hung in the brightness of the full day Sun (Being, sattā, pure consciousness). Over time ( sādhana, practice) the cloth takes on the purity (sattva) of Being (sattā, pure consciousness); One becomes That. Through this process one experiences camatkāra¹ (joy). This is also reviewed above in post 22 and 23.

    The Śiva sūtra-s śloka 8, of Chapter 2 also says śarīraṁ haviḥ. That is, that which is easily destroyed śarīra, the 3 coverings of wake , dream and sleep are given up as an offering (haviḥ) or havana, that act of offering an oblation. This offering is given into Supreme Consciousness (anuttara). Why so?

    They are no longer covering or draping (sari) one's essential (sāra - essence, best part) nature of pure Being (sattā) and can walk on this earth established in the fullness of God Consciousness or Bhāgavat Cetana. This is being established in Turīyātīta. Turīya + atīta : -turīya is the 4th + atīta or beyond, past. Hence turīyātīta is beyond the 4th.

    pranams

    words
    • samādhi समाधि - ( sama + dhā) - sama सम is equal, even, sameness + dhā is to establish, take hold of, to obtain and even to take pleasure in. So this sama + dhā is establishing sameness, even-ness.
    • sambandha सम्बन्ध - binding or joining together , close connection or union or association , conjunction , inherence , connection with or relation to
    • sari - cascade or waterfall; the drape of uncut cloth worn by woman draped (cascaded) over the body; note the connection
      to śarīra
    • śarīra शरीर- from śṛṛ , that which is easily destroyed i.e. the bodily frame; some call these ~bodies~ waking, dream and sleep - as they too are easily destoyed as one goes from wake, to dream to sleep.
    • sāra सार- the substance or essence or marrow or cream or heart or essential part of anything , best part , quintessence
    • havana हवन- the act of offering an oblation with fire , sacrifice
    Last edited by yajvan; 11 December 2008 at 04:52 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #26
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    Re: Revisitng Turīya

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~

    Namaste

    from a previous conversation¹ ...

    It has been my observation that many people stop sādhana due to not knowing how to be effortless ( or at least less intense). We are groomed by society (IMO) to be assertive, forward, achievement based. When it comes to sādhana with meditation, it is the delicate approach that brings fruit.

    What one needs comfort with is prayatnaḥ sādhakāḥ as mentioned in the Śiva sūtra-s (chapt 2.2) - pause-less effort that brings one to the level of Being. Holding the beginning point ( some like to call this anusaṁdhitsā) with awareness. This brings about the union of the worshipper (meditator) and the worshipped ( pure consciousness).
    The above is from another post and conversation ¹. AS to not further derail that conversation with another point on effortlessness, I thought to offer it here - as it fits approprialtey within the notion of going from diversity or aṅga and experience fullness, bhuma, turīya or aṅgī, the whole, then coming back to diversity.
    There is a most insightful sūtra offered in the Śiva sūtra-s¹ (Chapt 3.16) says the following:

    āsanasthaḥ sukaṁ hrade nimajjati||
    • āsanasthaḥ आसनस्थ - abiding on a seat; we see the compound word of āsana and we know of postures from hatha yoga.
    • sukaṁ सुख - running swiftly or easily ( applied to chariots) ; agreeable , gentle , mild , easy, comfortable.
    • hrade is rooted in hṛ हृ - to take away, carry off, to present. We find this word at the core of hari ' the remover' and hara ' one who takes away' . This hṛ हृ also means withdraw.
    • nimajjati is a bit more robust - IMHO it needs to be broken to its components:
      • ni नि is into, within
      • ma म as a noun is happiness
      • aj अज्is to cast, drive, or propel
      • jāti जाति jati birth, natural disposition and jāta जात is birth or origin, brought into existence.
    So what is this telling us? Let me give you my POV and then in the next post I will offer Svāmī Lakṣman-jū's council.

    I hightlighted some of the key words above they tell us what becomes of a person practicing an āṇavopāya¹ approach. That is when one is practicing āṇavopāya in a successful manner, ones awareness is seated comfortably and easily withdrawn within to its natural disposition (pure consciousness); its natually drawn within, carried off in happiness within (if you will), that is agreeable and effortless.


    This has been the position offered by my teacher too on this matter… he would use the words ' a comfortable ride ' often when he talked of transcending and what we could expect i.e. to validate the experience. This has been the experience, and verifies this most wonderful Śiva sūtra.

    pranams


    words and references
    • Śiva sūtra-s of Vasugupta or Maheśvara sūtra-s महेश्वर सूत्र are considered śivopaniṣad saṅgraha
    • āṇavopāya is part of a group of 3 upāya-s:
      1. sāmbhavopāya (sāmbhava upāya)
      This upāya The rise of Śiva consciousness by mere hints from the guru. It is via iccha śākti that the sādhu advances; the grace/will of the master. The sadhu gains entry into sāmaveśa ( posessed of the Divine), absorption of the individual consciousness in the Divine, without adapting any process. No dhyāna, mantra or any other aid is needed.

      1a. sāmbhavopāya is also known as anupāya or 'without means or no upāya' - the way is without a way, as one person has said it. It does not really involve any process. Due to śaktipata or descent of grace in a very intense degree, everything needed for the realization, beginning from the liquidation of individual impurity down to the recognition of the state of Parameśvara may be achieved by the sādhu immediately and without going through any sādhana or discipline.

      2. śākopāya (shakti-upāya)
      The means of approach to the Divine through śakti, the ever-recurring contemplation of the pure thought of oneself being essentially Śiva or the Supreme ahaṁ .

      3. āṇavopāya
      āṇu अणु = fine , minute , atomic is known as 'atom' - which is another name for the individual jiva.
      This upāya is the means whereby the āṇu or the individual jiva uses his own kāraṇa-s or instruments i.e. senses, prana and manas for self-realization. It includes disciplines concerning the regulation of prana, japa, concentration, meditation, etc.
    • Previous conversation from http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=25724&postcount=17
    Last edited by yajvan; 15 December 2008 at 09:00 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  7. #27
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    Re: Revisitng Turīya

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~

    Namaste

    There is a most insightful sūtra offered in the Śiva sūtra-s¹ (Chapt 3.16) says the following:

    āsanasthaḥ sukaṁ hrade nimajjati||

    So what is this telling us? Let me give you my POV and then in the next post I will offer Svāmī Lakṣman-jū's council.
    Here is Svāmī Lakṣman-jū's view on this matter.
    āsanasthaḥ sukaṁ hrade nimajjati ||
    He says the sutra reads like this: Seated in the real posture (āsanasthaḥ) he effortlessly dives (sukaṁ hrade) into the ocean of nectar (nimajjati)

    Svāmī-ji suggests that āsana-s or postures explained in the Yogadarśana of Patañjali are beyond just the postures one thinks
    of i.e. śīrṣāsana, etc. He says śivayoga is the posture that one must understand to comprehend the posture of a yogī.
    That posture is the supreme energy of awareness. You are seated in that 'posture' when you possess the supreme energy of awareness.
    Being 'seated' suggested being established in it at all times - residing in the SELF.

    But what of this notion of diving? Svāmī-ji's position on this is the following: In diving into the ocean of nectar he lets the
    impressions of the body, breath, etc. sink into that ocean and becomes one with the nectar.

    And what is the nectar? The SELF, Pure awareness.

    pranams

    words
    • āṇavopāya - see the previous post for the listing of 3 upāya-s.
    • āsanasthaḥ आसनस्थ - abiding on a seat; we see the compound word of āsana and we know of postures from hatha yoga.
    • sukaṁ सुख - running swiftly or easily ( applied to chariots) ; agreeable , gentle , mild , easy, comfortable.
    • hrade is rooted in hṛ हृ - to take away, carry off, to present. We find this word at the core of hari ' the remover' and hara ' one who takes away' . This hṛ हृ also means withdraw.
    • nimajjati is a bit more robust - IMHO it needs to be broken to its components:
      • ni नि is into, within
      • ma as a noun is happiness
      • aj अज्is to cast, drive, or propel
      • jāti जाति jati birth, natural disposition and jāta जात is birth or origin, brought into existence.
    Last edited by yajvan; 15 December 2008 at 09:00 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #28
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    Re: Revisitng Turīya

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~

    Namaste
    There is no doubt that this turiya is the substratum for all other levels of consciousness. On one hand this turiya is there for all to experience ... It is found between the tick of a clock or between two breaths, etc.
    Turiya can be found there, in these gaps, sandhyā . Yet if the person is thinking, "Ahha I am viewing this gap" and using his/her awareness to do it, then the Turiya experience is not occurring (unless one is a muni), due to the fact that turiya is the awareness of that experience itself. The 'experience' is pure awareness itself, turned back on ltself. That is why it is considered the 4th as it is not about wake, dream or sleep.
    There are several sūtra-s in the Śiva Sūtra-s¹ that give insight on turiya. Let me offer 2 of them, one found in the 3rd section addressing the āṇavopāya approach¹, then in the next post , the sutra found in the 1st section addressing the sāmbhavopāya approach.
    Chapter 3, 20th sūtra
    triṣu caturthaṁ tailavadāsecyam||

    Here is my view ~decoding~ this sūtra. I will then offer Svāmī Lakṣman-jū's keen insights.
    • triṣu - tri त्रि + ṣu सू : tri or later on + ṣu or delivery, a form of sū which means to bring forth, produce or deliver; tri is also 3 as in trika and also means a place where 3 roads meet.
    • caturthaṁ चतुर्थं or caturtha चतुर्थ is the forth , 'constituting the 4th part'. Note turya in caturthaṁ.
    • tailavadāsecyam is a compound word. Here (IMHO) is its components and meaning:
      • taila तैल oil
      • vadā is from vadānya वदान्य - bountiful, liberal; also note 'va' is a noun for varuṇa - 'all envelopng sky' - hence the notion of liberal expansion
      • secya(m) सेच्य is from secanīya सेचनीय to be sprinkled or watered or poured out or effused
    So from my POV this sūtra says the following, (triṣu) in due order this 4th (caturthaṁ) is to be (secanīya) sprinkled liberally (vadānya) like oil (taila) enveloping (va) or bringing forth ( ṣu or sū). For this sutra I see the possibility of a double meaning for triṣu i.e. in due order and also, 3 (as in trika).
    Now recall the definition of a sūtra - it is just a snippet, a stitch, the most abbreviated form for communicating an idea , intent or thought. Hence then one would logically ask, What is this turya suppose to cover or sprinkled like oil on?

    Lets look to the wisdom of Svāmī Lakṣman-jū and his views on Kṣemarāja-ji's bhāshya. He says, the stitch reads the following:
    The 4th state (turya) must be expanded like oil (taila) so that it pervades (va) the other three (tri): jāgrat, svapna and suṣupti.

    Note that jāgrat, svapna and suṣupti i.e. wake, dream and deep sleep are implied. It is implied by the idea of 'tri' and by the notion of turya the 4th; if we are talking the 4th, then the other 3 are implied.
    So this is the baseline thought for this sūtra. Let me continue this idea on the next post and offer what I believe the notion is being offered and compare that to Svāmī-ji's commentatary of the same.

    pranams

    words and references
    • Śiva Sūtra-s revealed to Vasugupta by Lord Śiva are considered one of the most important āgama-s of Trika Śiavism. The one used for this post is the Śiva Sūtra Vimarśinī commentary (bhāshya) by Kṣemarāja-ji, the chief śiṣya-cela of Abhinavagupta. None of this knowledge can be attributed to me. It is only by Svāmī Lakṣman-jū's writings that my understanding advances. To him I am most grateful.
    • va is a noun for varuṇa - 'all envelopng sky'
    • āṇavopāya is part of a group of 3 upāya-s:
      • 1. sāmbhavopāya (sāmbhava upāya)
        This upāya , the rise of Śiva consciousness by mere hints from the guru. It is via iccha śākti that the sādhu advances; the grace/will of the master. The sadhu gains entry into sāmaveśa ( posessed of the Divine), absorption of the individual consciousness in the Divine, without adapting any process. No dhyāna, mantra or any other aid is needed.
      • 1a. sāmbhavopāya is also known as anupāya or 'without means or no upāya' - the way is without a way, as one person has said it. It does not really involve any process. Due to śaktipata or descent of grace in a very intense degree, everything needed for the realization, beginning from the liquidation of individual impurity down to the recognition of the state of Parameśvara may be achieved by the sādhu immediately and without going through any sādhana or discipline.
      • 2. śākopāya (shakti-upāya)
        The means of approach to the Divine through śakti, the ever-recurring contemplation of the pure thought of oneself being essentially Śiva or the Supreme ahaṁ .
      • 3. āṇavopāya
        āṇu अणु = fine , minute , atomic is known as 'atom' - which is another name for the individual jiva. This upāya is the means whereby the āṇu or the individual jiva uses his own kāraṇa-s or instruments i.e. senses, prana and manas for self-realization. It includes disciplines concerning the regulation of prana, japa, concentration, meditation, etc.

    Last edited by yajvan; 21 December 2008 at 01:29 PM. Reason: spelling
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #29
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    Re: Revisitng Turīya

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~

    Namaste

    Lets look to the wisdom of Svāmī Lakṣman-jū and his views on Kṣemarāja-ji's bhāshya. He says, the stitch reads the following:
    The 4th state (turya) must be expanded like oil (taila) so that it pervades (va) the other three (tri): jāgrat, svapna and suṣupti.

    Note that jāgrat, svapna and suṣupti i.e. wake, dream and deep sleep are implied. It is implied by the idea of 'tri' and by the notion of turya the 4th; if we are talking the 4th, then the other 3 are implied.
    So this is the baseline thought for this sūtra. Let me continue this idea on the next post and offer what I believe the notion is being offered and compare that to Svāmī-ji's commentatary of the same.


    There are many posts where we talked about the gaps between wake, dream and sleep - these junctions are the places where one can experience turiya if attentive. Note this does not imply that turiya ONLY resides at these junction points or the sandhyā (some write saṁdhyā &#185 - but that it is more observable/accessable at these junctions.
    So, from the last post - the notion then is, this turiya is to be expanded (va) so it covers like oil, the other 3 states of consciousness - wake, dream and deep sleep. The oil analogy is i.e. like oil (taila) being poured out (secanīya) on a smooth surface, it expands or covers the surface in all directions.

    The 20th sūtra says the same - prolong turiya so it expands and covers the other 3 states of consciousness of jāgrat, svapna and suṣupti (wake, dream,sleep) says Svāmī Lakṣman-jū. This turiya is then experienced beyond junction points (saṁdhyā) but even during the middle ( madyha) of these states of consciouss - hence turyarasa ( the nector or taste of turya) is there for the yogī and yoginī all the time.

    As mentioned this turya is offered in the 1st section of the Śiva Sūtra-s, the chapter on the sāmbhavopāya approach:
    Chapter 1, 7th sūtra
    jāgrat-svapna-suṣupta-bhede
    turyābhogasaṁbhava ||

    As you look to the first line of the sūtra you see the familiar 3 states of consciousness jāgrat, svapna and suṣupti or wake dream and sleep - these as a group are considered 'differentiated' states of consciousness i.e. bheda भेद or separation , division , partition , part , portion.
    Then in the 2nd line we see the familiar 4th, turya, followed by bhoga + saṁbhava. This bhoga भोग is known as a hood, covering (like the hood of a snake), it also means delight, profit, possession. And sambhava सम्भव means union, coming together or being contained in.
    So the sutra says, the differentiated states (bheda) are contained in or covered (bhoga) by and brought into union (sambhava) by turya.
    This line can also infer turya as the expansive state (bhoga) like the hood of a cobra snake, that covers and brings into union the other
    3 states of consciousness.
    Svāmī Lakṣman-jū says it like this: Such a heroic yogi experiences the expansive state (bhoga) of turya in the differentiated ( bheda ) states
    of waking, dreaming and deep sleep.

    So why mention this? The sūtra in Chapt 3.20 is connected to Chapt 1.7 sūtra. It said turiya is to be expanded (va) so it covers like oil, the other 3 states of consciousness - wake, dream and deep sleep. In Chapt 1.7 it is saying what the yogī experiences when this occurs - turya is never lost - it covers (bhoga) and brings into union (saṁbhava) the differentiated (bheda) states of consciousness. It also suggests the joy that accompanies this experience by the word bhoga, as this not only suggests hood or covering , but that of delight.

    For those that have read the Śiva Sūtra-s some contend this word saṁbhava (union) should read saṁvit. Saṁvid संविद् means to know together, held together. This suggests differentiated consciousness (wake, dream, sleep) is known together along with turya. For me, it works both ways - union or to know together.

    pranams

    words
    saṁdhyā संध्या - holding together , union , junction , juncture; see this HDF post http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=8273&postcount=5
    Last edited by yajvan; 10 September 2009 at 06:54 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #30
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    Re: Revisitng Turīya

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~

    Namaste

    Svāmī Lakṣman-jū says it like this: Such a heroic yogi experiences the expansive state (bhoga) of turya in the differentiated ( bheda ) states of waking, dreaming and deep sleep.


    So now what? What does this person now do? The Śiva Sūtra-s, Chapter 3, 26th sūtra dealing with the āṇavopāya approach suggests the following:
    sariaravrittirvratam ||

    śarīra शरीर - one's body ; from śṝ शॄ that which is easily destroyed or dissolved' i.e. bodily frame , solid parts of the body
    vṛtti वृत्ति ( some write vṛitti) - course of action , activity , function, behaviour ; on occation we also use this word's other definition as commentary , comment , gloss , explanation.
    vrata व्रत - practice , any pious observance , meritorious act of devotion or austerity
    Hence this sūtra says, one's observance, virtuous (vrata) practice or course of action (vṛtti) is that of maintaining the body (śarīra) .

    I find this interesting and uplifting. For others that have not realized turyātīta ( beyond the 4th, turya), vrata may include observances, fasts, religious activites, etc. Yet for the yogī/yoginī's vrata becomes just usual things i.e. walking, taking tea, getting up in the AM, eating , etc. All these things for the person that is established in the SELF is virtuous i.e. staying in the body is his/her virtuous behavior.

    Even as he/she does things like we may do, he/she resides beyond - established in that consciousness that is pure, unbounded, without stain.
    Ordinary talk for the yogī/yoginī is the recitation of mantra - this is the notion of the 27th sūtra, it says:
    kathā japaḥ ||
    kathā कथा - conversation, speech, talking together
    japaḥ जपः - 'muttering , whispering' we know as the repetition of prayer, mantra, scripture

    praṇām
    Last edited by yajvan; 24 December 2008 at 05:10 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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