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  1. Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    Quote Originally Posted by satay
    One of the things that turns me off with ISKConites is that I can close my eyes and hear what they are saying and then plug 'christ' and 'jesus'….
    According to Vedic tradition, even if your enemy comes to your door, you should treat him very nicely. Otherwise it is a great curse to you.

    So far, I have been treated very rudely here, although I didn't deserve it. I came here in a friendly mood, but saw so much blasphemy towards my Gurudevas mission and his followers. I have tried to present another side to the statements which were being made so there would be a balanced view.

    I have been associated with Hinduism now for over 30 years, and have traveled all over India, but I have never experienced this.

    You know nothing about me, yet you judge me, and treat me this way...

    I won't remain here any longer,
    Bhava dasa (ACBSP)

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    Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhava dasa

    I won't remain here any longer,
    There is no need for this. I have already banned your id.
    Thanks for visiting. Enjoy your preaching elsewhere.
    satay

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    Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    Admin Note:
    Once again I request all members to read the site rules. Preaching is not allowed on this site no matter how passionate you are about your sect.

    We are trying to have this place 4 intellectual discussions and not 4 heated debates on whose dad can beat up whom.

    Hare Krishna!
    satay

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    Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    Wow, I certainly didn't mean to set off a heated discussion.

    I have truly learned that ISKCON is not of the Hindu faith. This was initially hard to believe because I was naive and believed most everything I was told. When I first initiated contact with the local Hindu society, I was told to go the Krishna Temple and that I would find help there. Yes, I seem to have found help - some of it was valueable but as you can see from my posts that some was not helpful in any way. Chalk it up to experience.

    One last uncertainty that I could use some clairty on - or perhaps just confirmation of what I'm discovering. The Bhagavad Gita - it was written to share the wisdom of Krishna (sorry if that isn't quite what I need to convey). Krishna however is not all that there is, the original "everything". So where does it find it's place? This is where I'm not 100% certain. Is it simply a book written by an Avatar of Vishnu to guide us in Kali Yuga?

    Thank-you all for your guidance. I am truly finding my way and the path seems to be taking me to Shiva. By his mercy I will continue along the path that is most relevant for me.

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    Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    The Hindu Trimurti is Brhama, Vishnu and Mahesh (shiva). To me hindu trimurti conveys that these three are the god heads but at the same time one.

    I like swami prabhupada's writings a lot but hinduism is more than iskcon's version.

    Others can correct me...
    satay

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    Exclamation Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    Quote Originally Posted by BYS
    Who you pray to is a personal choice of yours. Nobody should judge you based on who is your primary deity of worship. Any Hindu who gives you a hard time because you pray to a different god is bogus.
    The recently arrived (and now banned) Bhava Dasa made a few posts that merely asked questions of C.Smith, and then suggested the opinion of his Guru that:
    Quote Originally Posted by Bhavadasa
    Krsna is the original Person from whom He expands Himself as Visnu. When He enters the material atmosphere to engage in His pastimes, He does so through Visnu; therefore it appears that He is an incarnation of Visnu, but actually is not.
    This perspective can be justified, and it would be interesting to hear such an explanation from a learned member of ISKCON.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satay
    ISKCONites do not identify themselves as Hindus.
    If this is so, perhaps this “Hindu Dharma” forum should not have the sub-topic “ISKCON” displayed under “God in Hindu Dharma”. Innocent devotees will only be tricked into thinking that this forum has at least some sympathy for their particular brand of “Sanatana Dharma”.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satay
    One of the things that turns me off with ISKConites is that I can close my eyes and hear what they are saying and then plug 'Christ' and 'Jesus' to everywhere they are saying Krishna and there doesn’t seem to be any difference remaining. The preaching is exactly like a Christian missionary does his preaching and selling of Krishna is done in the same fashion as Christian god is sold.
    How is this at all relevant to the single substantive post made by Bhava Dasa?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhavadasa
    What is your definition of "Hindu"? Did I offend you in some way? I was simply having a nice discussion with Csmith. I apologize if my words so deeply offended you. Hare Krsna.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sudarshan
    Most of us see no differences whatsoever between Krishna and Vishnu. Avatar of God is non different in any way from God.
    And then, Bhavadasa supplied a hint toward the explanation of his earlier comment:
    Quote Originally Posted by Bhavadasa
    Very true. Most don't see the difference. However, those who understand Visnu-tattva more completely, do. Visnu is Krsna "working".
    Quote Originally Posted by BYS
    This is strictly an ISKCON view and may also be shared a small number of other Vaishnava schools but this is certainly not mainstream Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma. I assume you are talking about ISKCON in this context as it seemed as if C.Smith was mentioning something about some of the things he learned from ISKCON temples. It is good to make clear which school you are coming from.
    If Bhavadasa’s views are not “mainstream Hindu”, so what? C.Smith and Bhavadasa were both talking about ISKCON, and Bhavadasa has already declared a 30+ year relationship with ISKCON.

    Quote Originally Posted by BYS
    I hate to say it, but it sounded more like preaching than a discussion.
    Can the moderators please explain what is meant by “preaching”, and how Bhavadasa can reasonably be accused of “preaching” here?

    Quote Originally Posted by BYS
    Bhava dasa, you keep repeating yourself without backing up anything you say with scriptures.
    I am unable to understand this claim of “repetition”, and Bhavadasa has had little chance to respond with any “scriptural back-up” before being shouted down and banned from the forum!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhavadasa
    According to Vedic tradition, even if your enemy comes to your door, you should treat him very nicely. Otherwise it is a great curse to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bhavadasa
    I have tried to present another side to the statements which were being made so there would be a balanced view. I have been associated with Hinduism now for over 30 years, and have traveled all over India, but I have never experienced this. You know nothing about me, yet you judge me, and treat me this way...
    I agree, and I have also never encountered a group of “Hindus” who were so quick to pass judgment on others!

    Quote Originally Posted by Satay
    Enjoy your preaching elsewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Admin.
    Preaching is not allowed on this site.
    And I repeat: Before I am banned again, can the moderators please explain what is meant by “preaching”?

    Quote Originally Posted by Satay
    We are trying to have this place 4 intellectual discussions and not 4 heated debates on whose dad can beat up whom.
    Based on recent actions by the HDF moderators, I find this difficult to believe!

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    Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    Quote Originally Posted by satay
    There is no need for this. I have already banned your id.
    Thanks for visiting. Enjoy your preaching elsewhere.
    Namaste Satay - I find this banning unwarranted. He has not even been given a chance to defend himself, and from what I know he has not misrepresented anything about ISKCON - he is just airing his view, which I was questioning just to know more about how he defends his views. How is that preaching? If this is considered preaching what else is allowed on this forum and what constitutes a discussion? How do I write anything here on my beleifs without the risk of it being considered as preaching?

    I hope no regular members are banned on this forum without several warnings. And for new comers, please dont do that unless he is a clear troll.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

  8. #8

    Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhava dasa
    but saw so much blasphemy towards my Gurudevas mission
    Just a note: Criticizing or disagreeing with a person's religious views is not "blasphemy" unless of course you are a member of a cult. I don't appreciate such propaganda on here and perhaps it has already been taken care of by Satay. The fact is that c.smith asked a few questions some of which were ISKCON-related but nobody asked for constant preaching and propaganda where it didn't belong. Enough said. ~BYS~

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    Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhakti Yoga Seeker
    This is an ISKCON view and not a mainstream Hindu view. No offense, but it is my opinion that this view on Shiva is bogus and downright disrespectful and even offensive to Lord Shiva. Vaishnavism is merely one of many schools of Sanatana Dharma. No where have I ever seen anyone (even from ISKCON) state that Shiva is of a certain school. I did not know that God or avatars were restricted to certain sects. I am not even going to ask for a scriptural citation because I already know that nowhere in the scriptures does it say this. I am not even aware of the term "Vaishnava" used in any scriptures. I am also highly skeptical of any shruti or smriti claiming that Shiva is "Vishnu transformed." At least not in the meaning that ISKCON gives it. This also doesn't seem to answer c.smith's question.
    What is the mainstream Hindu view? Do you know even what Adi Shankara's view on this matter was, and have you read even a word from his texts? I can easily prove that for Sri Shankara. Vishnu alone was the supreme Saguna Brahman, and Shiva is just a manifestation of Vishnu, if you need proof. You have your own ideas built from some amateurish books. Have you read Shankara's commentary on Gita? Take a look at 7.17 where he even goes to the extent to saying that Krishna alone is Ekabhakti and is the only God worthy of worship.(nobody else) If a Vaishnava said this, he would be immediately condmened as a bigot. In his Vishnu Sahasranama commentary, Sri Shankara says that Kesava means the originator of both Shiva and Brahma.

    Shiva as a Vaishnava is a concept common to all Vaishnava Puranas and is well accepted. If a few Shaivas cant accept it, it does not matter. Even Adi Shankara has given much more priority to Vaishnava Puranas and has quoted only from them. If you read his Brahmasutra Bhasya, you can find as many as 200+ quotes from Vaishnava Puranas and virtually none from Shaiva Puranas. Regarding Gita Bhasya, I dont think I have to say anything - it speaks for itself.

    Shiva is "Vishnu Transformed" even according to Adi Shankara, because Vishnu is the Saguna Brahman, the cause of all causes. Please read his commentaries and dont learn Hinduism from some comic books.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

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    Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga
    This perspective can be justified, and it would be interesting to hear such an explanation from a learned member of ISKCON.
    namaste,

    Bhava dasa came across as just another iskconite trying to shove krishna down other people's throats.

    He had already been warned. I reviewed his posts collectively they were breaking the following rules:
    1. Flaming
    2. No Promotion of Other Religions
    3. No Self Promotion


    If this is so, perhaps this “Hindu Dharma” forum should not have the sub-topic “ISKCON” displayed under “God in Hindu Dharma”. Innocent devotees will only be tricked into thinking that this forum has at least some sympathy for their particular brand of “Sanatana Dharma”.
    perhaps you are right but not all iskonites think that they are not hindus and the subform is for those devotees.

    Can the moderators please explain what is meant by “preaching”, and how Bhavadasa can reasonably be accused of “preaching” here?
    preaching - excessively trying to prove that your sect is the correct one and that the person being preached to should join your sect.

    Based on recent actions by the HDF moderators, I find this difficult to believe!
    I find it difficult to believe that you think that we have not heard enough from ISKCONITes and all that we can!

    Bhava dasa does manage his forum called Bhakti disscussion forums (if I am not wrong) and more of their views can be read at that site.

    As you know there are no other moderators on this site right now except me. I feel that if we have a need to hear ISKCON repetitions then we should visit their forums.
    Last edited by satay; 10 June 2006 at 11:04 PM.
    satay

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