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  1. #11
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    Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudarshan
    Namaste Satay - I find this banning unwarranted. He has not even been given a chance to defend himself, and from what I know he has not misrepresented anything about ISKCON - he is just airing his view, which I was questioning just to know more about how he defends his views. How is that preaching? If this is considered preaching what else is allowed on this forum and what constitutes a discussion? How do I write anything here on my beleifs without the risk of it being considered as preaching?

    I hope no regular members are banned on this forum without several warnings. And for new comers, please dont do that unless he is a clear troll.
    namaste!
    Thank you for your note. I happen to disagree with you. I had given a warning to Bhava dasa before.

    If you feel that you have to learn more of ISCKON's view bhava dasa's forums can be visited at Bhakti discussions.com ( I think, google it please) that way you can have more detailed discussions with other devotees as well and not just bhava dasa.

    Just a recommendation.


    Thanks,
    satay

  2. #12
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    Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    Admin Note:

    This thread has been trolled enough already by getting skewed to one sect some members of which don't even consider themselves hindus.

    Please if you have suggestions to make on moderation etc. open another thread under feedback.

    I am not going to keep repeating myself when dealing with the same types of problems if members of certain sects keep appearing and keep doing the same things over and over on the forum.

    Anyway, Bhava dasa in one of his posts to me had said that he would not stay here longer and I just made it easier for him and fulfilled his wish.

    Hari Bol!

    thanks.
    Last edited by satay; 10 June 2006 at 11:00 PM.
    satay

  3. #13

    Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    Sarabhanga, I refuse to have a discussion with you when you keep chopping up random quotes of mine along with others that are taken completely out of context or not read critically to begin with. My discussions with C.Smith and Bhava Dasa are quite simple to understand and actually are quite non-judgmental. However, in order to actually understand simple thoughts you have to read my posts in their entirety rather than just chopping them up. The way in which you have quoted me indicates that you have not read clearly what I have said and it is now you who are taking this thread off-topic and repeating what was already discussed.

    Sudarshan, I don't know the details as to why Bhava dasa was banned other than Satay's explanation on the board. I would encourage you to review the thread from the beginning and see how this has gone off-topic. C.Smith asked a number of questions about Hinduism as well as with ISKCON. I am already aware that Bhava dasa was from ISKCON and actually I was quite non-judgmental and in fact gave Bhava dasa a number of positive remarks as well as negative remarks about ISKCON that were in context. I believe that at least my responses were kept to the point and balanced as I gave credit where I thought it was due and took away credit where I thought it should not be given. The problem occurred when C.Smith asked honest questions about ISKCON and its relation to Hinduism in general and Bhava dasa continued to respond by equating all of Hinduism with ISKCON. A few of us mentioned that ISKCON is not the end all of Hinduism and that it is only one of many schools. Even after these explanations, Bhava dasa ignored many of C.Smith's questions and continued posting replies implying that the only Hinduism one needs to focus on is the one presented by ISKCON.

    I don't have a problem with a discussion of ISKCON and I find a number of respectful things in it which I have commented on. The problem I have is when someone asks a question about comparing and contrasting things between ISKCON and standard Hinduism and an ISKCONite continues to push only the ISKCON views instead of actually answering the questions. This is when it became preaching. Bhava dasa kept on stating the ISKCON views as if the entire Sanatana Dharma is owned and patented and controlled by ISKCON. Please re-read the thread and see how it turned into this. A couple of times I mentioned scriptural citations and gave Bhava dasa the option of simply stating that this is just an ISKCON view and not something shared by all Hindus. However, Bhava dasa kept presenting the views again as if those views that were strictly ISKCON applied to all of us which was basically repetition without answering anything.

    Last but not least, when a few of us made some critical remarks about ISKCON and the fact that it sounded like preaching because this user kept on asserting that ISKCON views should be shared by all Hindus or that ISKCON views are the "only" Sanatana Dharma, Bhava dasa responded saying we were posting "blasphemy" against Prabhupada and making ridiculous accusations about us that we are being judgmental, rude, etc. when all that was done was simple disagreement and questioning of Bhava dasa's views. Not only did Bhava dasa dodge a large number of C.Smith's questions, but this user kept pushing ISKCON over and over even when the topic for the most part was Hinduism and then starts accusing us trying to make us feel bad that we dared to disagree. Examples again are the whole "blasphemy" nonsense as well as the "I'm going to leave the board."

    I hate to say it but I don't want such propaganda here either. It ruins a discussion every time. If they cannot just answer the questions without constantly trying to push their school and then whine and complain that people dare to disagree, then they should either find another board to do this on or perhaps learn some basic social skills as well as net etiquette. ~BYS~

  4. #14

    Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    Anyway, I hope the thread can now get back on topic because it isn't fair to the people that were involved originally with a normal and healthy discussion. I hope that Satay doesn't close the thread but at least that it can get back on track. ~BYS~

  5. #15

    Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    Sudarshan, I asked for one of the following: A) that if the ISKCON views presented are claimed to be genunine Sanatana Dharma applied to all Hindus then scriptures are quoted. B) that if these are strictly ISKCON views then the person should make that clear.

    Your response did neither and is sounding like repetition just like before by others in this thread. Scriptures mean at least smritis or srutis. Your response basically mentioned what Adi Shankaracharya thought about Krishna and you mentioned what Vaishnava Puranas in general said. I don't care what Adi Shankara thought about Krishna at least not in the context of this thread. I asked for scriptures, not what some guru here or there believed about what the scriptures meant.

    I am not understanding why it is so difficult to answer a question. I asked to quote scriptures not what gurus here and there thought the scriptures meant. This is the same case with Bhava dasa's response. Instead of responding with scriptures, the response was that the beliefs came from the hundreds of ISKCON books written by Prabhupada, which again are NOT scriptures. ~BYS~

  6. #16
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    Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    Please note that showing disrespect to any hindu guru is against the rules of this site this includes adiShankara and Swami Prabupada!

    adishankara was not just 'some' guru! but anyway, I don't want to get into a discussion on that.

    Guru is an important part of the hindu/vedic dharma...we should not speak in terms of 'some' guru said this or that...and insult them in such a way.
    satay

  7. #17
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    Wink Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    Quote Originally Posted by BYS
    I refuse to have a discussion with you
    No problem, I don't require any further comment from you on this matter.

  8. #18
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    Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    If preaching is “excessively trying to prove that your sect is the correct one and that the person being preached to should join your sect”, then in the 14 posts made by Bhavadasa on this forum I am unable to find any evidence of such behaviour. Although, I had no idea of any previous issues you might have had with this poster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satay
    I find it difficult to believe that you think that we have not heard enough from ISKCONITes
    Quote Originally Posted by Bhavadasa
    Krsna is the original Person from whom He expands Himself as Visnu. When He enters the material atmosphere to engage in His pastimes, He does so through Visnu; therefore it appears that He is an incarnation of Visnu, but actually is not.
    This perspective can be justified, and it would be interesting to hear such an explanation from a learned member of ISKCON.
    If we have learned enough from previous ISKCON members, then perhaps someone else can provide the appropriate explanation.

    And there are plenty of other web-sites offering the views of Shaivism and Vedanta, so perhaps the majority of my posts are only needless repetition designed to convince others that the views of my own Gurus are superior to the views of others.

  9. #19
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    Re: vishnu is incarnation of krishna!

    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga

    If we have learned enough from previous ISKCON members, then perhaps someone else can provide the appropriate explanation.
    Some of it is explained here at this site that I visit very often. http://india.krishna.org/Articles/2000/09/00136.html


    "As for your specific question in regard to Krishna and Visnu. Visnu is an incarnation of Krishna, Krishna is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, syam bhagavan. It is true that all the Visnu-tattva incarnations including Maha-Visnu are non-different from Krishna, but still Krishna is the origin of them all. This point is confirmed in so many places in the Bhagavad-gita and in so many other Vedic texts also..."

    and here
    http://science.krishna.org/sudarsana.../msg00161.html
    satay

  10. #20
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    Re: Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga
    And there are plenty of other web-sites offering the views of Shaivism and Vedanta, so perhaps the majority of my posts are only needless repetition designed to convince others that the views of my own Gurus are superior to the views of others.
    I don't follow what you are saying...are you saying that your guru's mandate is to convince others or the members of this forum that yours or his is the only valid view and that all sanantanis have to follow it or else...? Somehow I doubt that that is what your view lis et alone the view of your guru!

    Most advaita gurus follow the common sense rule of : "Ignore the ignorants!" and have no interest in proving or convincing others as they understand it is due to the other person's karma that he is not able to grasp the idea. But they have faith that eventually everyone will dis-cover the truth on their own accord and when the karmic forces are in balance. Am I wrong in observing this of advaitins in general?
    satay

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