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Thread: What is the reason for creation...

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    What is the reason for creation...

    One of the most rising doubts in my mind is: What is the reason for creation of the world? I have read many theories etc, but i am not convinced.

    I would like you people to write what you believe is the reason for creation...

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    Re: What is the reason for creation...

    ichchAmAtraM prabhossR^ishTiriti

    Creation is the will of God. The cause? I dont know, how can we speculate on the mind of the being who is outside of space and time? Every theory is just man's imagination.

    If the world were full of brahmAnanda I would have said that Brahman did it for pleasure. But who will bother to create a world of misery especially when God is all powerful and all knowing? So the creation mystery is more deeper than we will ever understand with our limited capacity. When you mature to the level of God you can understand the secrets!
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

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    Re: What is the reason for creation...

    But as long as we know the cause for creation How can we justify this act of creation, I say that people are suffering here terribly and still people say that God is merciful or loving etc etc.

    I read Ramana Maharshi and he says reason for creation is that Creation is God's Lila(Hobby), and how can a sane individual create a world full of suffering for his hobby?

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    Re: What is the reason for creation...

    See it this way.

    From God's angle ( who is beyond time) no changes are percived to happen. A human being might wonder what will happen tomorrow but such future events have already happened for God due to his omniscience. There is no point in blaming God for miseries because creating this world constitutes the very nature of Brahman. Brahman creates because it is his nature to create just like it is the nature of the fire to be hot. Would you complain to the fire that it is hot?

    But is the fire hot to the fire itself? Nobody is harmful to himself. You are suffering because you think you are separate from the Lord. Once you know you are the fire, your own heat wil not bother you. But as long as you think you are different from the Lord, its fiery nature ( in the form of mAyA) is indeed very hot. There is really no way but to submit to the Lord to be kind to us and save us from his own power. Even the diabolic Gods presented by the Abrahamic religions are not untruth but they present only half the picture. God is indeed terrible in his mAyA aspect - he is DEATH itself in the form of time. Those who dont bow to this force will be blown to pieces. But always remember the subtle truth - there is nothing exterior to the Lord and all his actions are always fully jusitified and he has no accountability.

    Ask God if he created all this intentionally. He will reply that he never saw anything external to himself, what to speak of miseries! Learn to enjoy this leela of God and life will be much smoother to live. We are privileged beings to be part of this leela and should stop complaining about God and instead strive to know the real truth.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

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    Re: What is the reason for creation...

    Thank you Sudarshan ji for your kind and wise words.

    I am not suffering, I am trying to realize the truth. But truly your answer has satisfied my mind, and I hope to continue searching for truth in me. But the problem is that I am happy, but there are crores of people who are ignorant of this and are sad and suffering. What if only I get liberation? There will still be crores of them suffering, what I want is that they should be liberated from suffering...

    Pranams
    Om Namaha Shivaya.

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    Re: What is the reason for creation...

    Millions before us have felt deep sympathy for others and have expressed their desire for the liberation of all. It is a good feeling.

    But when they get enlightened they find that no one is in bondage - all this is mere play of time! They only find that the Self has decorated itself in many ways and it is in no need of help.

    And for those who are apparently bounded there is God to take care of them. Do you think he will desert anyone - how could he do that to those who were born of him?
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

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    Re: What is the reason for creation...

    Namaste Bhargavsai.

    RamaNa Maharshi echoed the teaching of Brahma Sutra Bashya of Adi Sankaracharya, when he said that Creation is God's lIlA (sport, play).

    Looking it up, I find that the logic discussed in the BSB verses II.i.31 to 33 is somewhat in these lines:

    Q: The Upanishads reveal that Brahman, the Supreme God is possessed of all powers. How can and why should a God possessed of all powers create a world of good and bad, happiness and misery? In other words, what is God's motive for such a defective Creation?

    A: God has indeed no motive for Creation. It is 'lokavattu lIlAkaivalyam', that is, a sport or play like what is seen in this world, played with 'kaivalya', perfect isolation, abstraction, detachment and eternal happiness.

    All the meanings of the term 'lIlA' fit in nicely here: sport, game, pastime, play (drama):

    • it is sport because Brahman has desired to exert and know himself;

    • it is game in the sense of playing for recreation, amusement; as a test of skill for endurance (as in 'the game of life'); as a project, scheme, plan (as in 'it is difficult to see through God's game);

    • it is passtime because, with Brahman's first thought of creation, the concept of time has set in, giving a limit to every activity;

    • it is play (drama) because, like the author of the play or a work of fiction, in one sense, God does not involve Himself in the play of circumstances and action between the characters--only witnesses it all to work out to a finish. In another sense, like the author, God is the be-all of all the characters and circumstances involved in the play because there is nothing external to the author in his/her creation (because everything happened within the author's own mind, though manifested on print).

    Q: The 'world' populated in God's play of Creation is obviously full of misery and suffering for most people. Won't this make Him responsible for partiality and cruelty?

    A: It would not because God did not create it autocratically, totally disregarding other factors. On the other hand, he completely lets these other factors come into play in the life of the characters he has created, thus setting the rules of the play. The 'other factors' include karma, desire and will of the individual characters.

    In conclusion, we may ask: if Creation and the World is only in God's mind, and must be an illusion to us, what is the purpose of our life--why are we created at all?

    The answer could be that the purpose is to know and realize the Self, the divinity of God immanent in us, so it will become easy to understand life. For those who cannot do it in this birth, life would be a serial play/novel/film.

    The people in the world created by a human author has no way of knowing their creator, though he/she is in everyone of them. The world they live in is all that is there to them. In the case of the work of creation of this world, the author is God, He is in every atom of it, and hence every person is provided with the faculty of Self-Realization.

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    Re: What is the reason for creation...

    Thank You Saidevo sir.

    But initially there would be no karma to any soul isn't it? Then every soul commits the acts according to the gunas given to it by God, so indirectly God only creates Karma isn't it?

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    Re: What is the reason for creation...

    Namaste Bhargavsai.

    Quote Originally Posted by bhargvasai View Post
    But initially there would be no karma to any soul isn't it? Then every soul commits the acts according to the gunas given to it by God, so indirectly God only creates Karma isn't it?
    First off, please do not address me as 'sir'. I am an ordinary soul, far less familiar with the scriptures (let alone profiency) than many members here, and way behind in the path towards Self-Realization. If my 'repu points' give a contrary indication, it is perhaps due to the 'catchy presentation' of my posts!

    I think our scriptures don't say anything about the 'first karma' of jIvas, except that karma (and avidyA) are beginningless. It is not like the 'original sin' of Christianity that Adam and Eve incurred by eating the fruit from the 'tree of knowledge' in the Garden of Eden. (Interestingly, all the worldly knowledge of good and bad, sin and virtue and physical life in general, obtained by humans by eating the fruit is considered 'knowledge' in Christianity, whereas to us Hindus, it is all 'avidyA' and 'mAyA'!)

    Sarabhanga said in one of the forums here that the original karma was Brahman's 'kAmA' (desire) to multiply. This might perhaps be understood as follows:

    In Theosophy, Logos (Brahman) has three Aspects: Will, Wisdom and Activity. They represent the Trinity of the Logos: Shiva, VishNu and BrahmA for Hindus. Life was we know here in the universe was created in three Great Waves (or Outpourings) of Life.

    • When the Logos sets about creation of the universe, it sends the first wave using its Aspect of Activity (BrahmA) and creates the seven planes and the atoms of matter in each plane.

    • When this groundwork is done, the second life wave arising out of the Aspect of Wisdom (VishNu) takes over. This wave descends the planes successively in its downward curve, creating a heterogeneity of finer and finer life forms, permeating and imbuing them with the energy of wisdom. After passing the nadir of the gross plane, this wave ascends, reversing the process of division and bring an ever-increasing homogenuity of life-forms.

    • Finally, when VishNu has done his work of permeating and energizing the forms, the third life wave, using the Aspect of Will (Shiva) takes over and ensouls the forms with the divine spark of Self and set in them in their course of life.

    According to our Puranas, a soul has to undergo 1,84,000 births in its normal cycle from the first birth to ultimate liberation. Of these thousands of births, many would have been in the lower forms of life in the mineral, vegetable and animal kingdoms of nature. Therein perhaps lies the answer for the first seeds of karma gathered before a soul takes its first human birth.

    Raindrops are divinity at their core but depending on where they fall, they become rivers, ponds, lakes, drainages or just disappear in the soil. In the same way, perhaps, Brahman's sparks of life fall on different forms of matter and acquire karma, which start fructifying once the soul takes a human birth.

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    Re: What is the reason for creation...

    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post
    According to our Puranas, a soul has to undergo 1,84,000 births in its normal cycle from the first birth to ultimate liberation. Of these thousands of births, many would have been in the lower forms of life in the mineral, vegetable and animal kingdoms of nature. Therein perhaps lies the answer for the first seeds of karma gathered before a soul takes its first human birth.
    Namaste saidevo,

    You are called 'sir' because people respect your age, wisdom and humility.

    Do you know which purANa talks about 1,84,000 births? I have heard atleast three versions of it but I could never locate it in any of the purANa recensions I have with me.

    However I have heard about three figures - 1,84,000 , 8.4 million and another account that said 9 crores. How do you think any finite number is compatible with beginningless avidyA and karma?

    It is probably not necessary for everyone to have been born in lower forms because the initial phase of creation started with devas and rishis who rarely come down to our level of existance. It is even difficult to concieve how the one Brahma( who alone existed in the beginning) who is an embodiment of wisdom could give rise to such lowly forms of life which have so much ignorance.

    I was surprised to see the nADi grantha of one person where it said - This is the first and last birth of this person. While nADi granthAs are not authoritative this particular nADi made some extraordinary predictions about this individual which are generally known only to the person himself. So I did not know whether to believe in this claim. If there are first births for any of us, the very theories of karma come under serious questioning. Naturally the buddhists believe that all of us have born an infinite number of times from beginningless time!!
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

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