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Thread: How to fight Casteism?

  1. #31
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    Re: How to fight Casteism?

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste Saideo, Atanu, TatTvamAsi & all,
    I think my views are completely different from all of you.
    I will like to say a few things :

    ) Should we accept everything whatever is written in our scriptures without examining whether it is really relevant today or not ?
    -OM
    Namaste Devotee,

    I think that we are saying almost the same thing.

    chaturvarNayaM maya sRuShtaM guNakarmavibhAgaShaH |
    tasya kartAramapi mAM viddhyakartAramavyayam ||

    "According to the three modes of material nature and the work associated with them, the four divisions of human society are created by Me. And although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the nondoer, being unchangeable."

    Namaste Friends,

    "It is dangerous to discard traditional rules of conduct. Try to think and understand their significance."

    Shri Ramana
    The Gita verse and also the one from Purusha Suktam are amenable to two types of views:

    View A. God has instituted the varna system and thus my Brahmana hood and the associated benefits are justified and the status quo should remain. Or the vice versa (in modern Democracy).

    View B. From God is the varna -- beginning with three basic varnas of White, Red, and Black. And these are contained in Him alone. So, where is varna? There is God alone.

    -----------------

    It is up to the individual ego to understand this way or that way and be responsible for the strifes or for the illumination.

    Regards,

    Om Namah Shivaya
    The point is that one cannot wish away the Varna differences that are inherent in the Universe owing to their origin from the Lord Himself. It is up to us, whether we concentrate on the differences and forget the ONE. Or whether we see ONE sutra.

    Om
    Last edited by atanu; 01 October 2008 at 04:34 AM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  2. #32
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    Re: How to fight Casteism?

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    The point is that one cannot wish away the Varna differences that are inherent in the Universe owing to their origin from the Lord Himself. It is up to us, whether we concentrate on the differences and forget the ONE. Or whether we see ONE sutra.
    Namaste Atanu,

    I agree with you. The Varna differences cannot be wished away ... the differences of intellect, capabilities are the realities of life. In fact, Varna differences, IMO, is an essential ingredient for Maya / World to continue.

    ... But as you say, let's concentrate on the ONE where all differences dissolve.

    Regards.

    But it's true that Indians often do this due to a complex they suffer wrt westerners.


    Namaste IR,

    Let's not generalise this in this manner. It is not due to the complex we suffer wrt westerners. It has more to do with "agressive assertion". The Indian Culture has been under attack from the westerners for thousands of years. The Hindus are asserting themselves by going to their roots. There is nothing wrong in it. Which society, which Nation, Which civilisation can live with pride without being proud of its past ? The inner strength must come from our roots. That is why in every nation there are National Heros, Great personalities, inspiring stories which make you proud of your race & your nation. However, there is no need to be unnecessarily agressive. That is all.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  3. #33
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    Re: How to fight Casteism?

    Namaste Devotee.

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    i) Should we accept everything whatever is written in our scriptures without examining whether it is really relevant today or not?
    The speciality of Hinduism is the freedom it gives to the individual, even to criticize the scriptures and choose not to follow them and still remain a Hindu. But when individuals do not agree as to what is relevant to the times, it is best left to our Acharyas--not the politicians, governments, courts--to decide.

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    ii) Should we accept whatever our predecessors told without keeping in view that things which might be perfectly ok in the past may not be ok in today's environment ?
    Again this is an individual decision, and individuals rarely have a consensus, which is the reason we let even criminals to contest elections, make them win, and become ministers.

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    iii) Have we not seen many people born in a Brahmin family indulging in abominable tasks ? Are they Brahmins in true sense ?

    iv) By the logic of Saideoji, a Shudra by birth should do the work which was being done by his forefathers (Please correct me, if I am wrong), even if he is par excellence in intelligence & knowledge ? And by the same the logic a Brahmin/Khsatriya by birth who is even incapable of reading & writing should get the highest place in administration ?
    Certainly those Brahmins do not study, preach or practice the Vedas? You want such bad guys cast out of the brahmin caste, and this to be decided by popular voting or by the politicians or the government or courts?

    Many of us (including me) are oftentimes confused between varNa (class) and jAti (caste); we take the terms to be synonymous and confuse ourselves. Here is an interesting discussion with a refreshingly new outlook as to why varNa or class IS NOT decided by birth and why jAti or caste IS decided by birth:

    Is Varna system by birth or karma
    http://www.satyavidya.org/component/...birth-or-karma

    Going by the above discussion, which seems logical, a man from the brahmin caste who does not study, teach and practice the Vedas loses his brahmin varNa though still retaining his caste. He might possibly be born in a caste that suits him better in the next birth. A man from a caste that falls under the shudra varNa may read/learn/study/research the Vedas, but as I said earlier, the onus of his capability of teaching and practicing them is on him only, subject to approval by the Acharyas and Vedic pandits. Any person in any caste might take up a profession that does not commensurate with his/her varNa and still retain his/her caste, though the varNa changes. I think this is fair enough to satisfy people on both sides of the debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    The Varna differences cannot be wished away ... the differences of intellect, capabilities are the realities of life. In fact, Varna differences, IMO, is an essential ingredient for Maya / World to continue.

    ... But as you say, let's concentrate on the ONE where all differences dissolve.
    Amen to that!
    Last edited by saidevo; 01 October 2008 at 08:31 AM.

  4. #34

    Re: How to fight Casteism?

    Very well balanced Saidevo.
    By the way, how do we say Amen in Hinduism?

    Tathastu is also not appropriate, as tathastu will be said by gods/godess while accepting prayers.

  5. #35
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    Re: How to fight Casteism?

    Namaste Reflections.

    For 'amen' we say 'aum' three times in the Kanchi Forum. The Sanskrit dictionaries give these three terms as the equivalent of 'amen':

    aum, svAhA, tatAstu

    (http://webapps.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/tamil/recherche)

  6. #36
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    Re: How to fight Casteism?

    Namaste Saideoji,

    Thanks for the explanation.

    Regards,

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  7. #37

    Re: How to fight Casteism?

    Namaste, Thanks a lot for the help.
    I read through the article, you posted from satyavidya.org.
    It is very informative. Jaathi and Varna are not only misunderstood by non Hindus but also by Hindus. Do we have a place in forum, just to store informative articles? We can keep this one there.

    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post
    Namaste Reflections.

    For 'amen' we say 'aum' three times in the Kanchi Forum. The Sanskrit dictionaries give these three terms as the equivalent of 'amen':

    aum, svAhA, tatAstu

    (http://webapps.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/tamil/recherche)

  8. #38
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    Re: How to fight Casteism?

    This is my take:

    God did create 4 divisions (Varnas). The intent was clear. God recognizes every one of us being special. One has to be an expert in Teaching, other one in Business other in defense and another in housekeeping. A teacher cannot be an expert in Housekeeping and vice versa. Each person is given an (spiritual) unique or special gift. God wants each one of us to use the special gift to contribute for a greater cause. There is no hierarchy here and everyone is equal to God. This is nothing to do with the birth. Creating only 4 divisions is only history. If Krishna were to be here today , he would divide us into thousands of ‘castes’, aeronautical engineers, soft ware engineers, sewage specialists, interior designers, hotel management specialists, proctologists, gynecologists, plumbing specialists etc…etc.. etc… you name it

    Love………….VC
    Last edited by vcindiana; 12 October 2008 at 11:08 PM.

  9. #39
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    Re: How to fight Casteism?

    namaskar,

    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana View Post
    Creating only 4 divisions is only history. If Krishna were to be here today , he would divide us into thousands of ‘castes’, aeronautical engineers, soft ware engineers, sewage specialists, interior designers, hotel management specialists, proctologists, gynecologists, plumbing specialists etc…etc.. etc… you name it

    Love………….VC
    All of those 'jobs' can be categorized in the four varnas as indicated by the Lord.

    Please stop with your subtle attacks on Hindu doctrines.
    satay

  10. #40
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    Re: How to fight Casteism?

    Why should the system of the Castes ever be fought? a similar question seems absurd to me. The castes have been established by the Gods, the institutions of Vishnu; they are Divine Laws, and to go against the Divine Laws means to go against the Dharma and against the Gods.
    Hail,
    Tyrannos

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