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Thread: khalsa rejects

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    khalsa rejects

    guru nanak rejected vaishnav , shivite , dev pooja such as ganesh , hanuman ...and devi pooja durga , kali , vaishno mata ...and stone pooja as done in every hindu temple .


    acc to guru there is only one formless and birthless , the father of the above mention gods ,


    fateh

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    Re: khalsa rejects

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    Re: khalsa rejects

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    Re: khalsa rejects

    thanx Harjas sory for omitting kaur

    gurbani reject s these deities , i m giving quotes

    1 here kabir ji reject krishna

    ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੀਅ ਜੋਨਿ ਮਹਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਤ ਨੰਦੁ ਬਹੁ ਥਾਕੋ ਰੇ ॥
    Wandering through 8.4 million incarnations, Krishna's father Nand was totally exhausted.


    ਭਗਤਿ ਹੇਤਿ ਅਵਤਾਰੁ ਲੀਓ ਹੈ ਭਾਗੁ ਬਡੋ ਬਪੁਰਾ ਕੋ ਰੇ ॥੧॥
    Because of his devotion, Krishna was incarnated in his home; how great was the good fortune of this poor man! ||1||


    ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਜੁ ਕਹਤ ਹਉ ਨੰਦ ਕੋ ਨੰਦਨੁ ਨੰਦ ਸੁ ਨੰਦਨੁ ਕਾ ਕੋ ਰੇ ॥
    You say that Krishna was Nand's son, but whose son was Nand himself?


    ਧਰਨਿ ਅਕਾਸੁ ਦਸੋ ਦਿਸ ਨਾਹੀ ਤਬ ਇਹੁ ਨੰਦੁ ਕਹਾ ਥੋ ਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    When there was no earth or ether or the ten directions, where was this Nand then? ||1||Pause||


    ਸੰਕਟਿ ਨਹੀ ਪਰੈ ਜੋਨਿ ਨਹੀ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਜਾ ਕੋ ਰੇ ॥
    He does not fall into misfortune, and He does not take birth; His Name is the Immaculate Lord.


    [ਕਬੀਰ ਕੋ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਐਸੋ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਮਾਈ ਨ ਬਾਪੋ ਰੇ ॥੨॥੧੯॥੭੦॥
    Kabeer's Lord is such a Lord and Master, who has no mother or father. ||2||1


    here naam dev ji rejected ram , shiva and so on

    ਆਜੁ ਨਾਮੇ ਬੀਠਲੁ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਮੂਰਖ ਕੋ ਸਮਝਾਊ ਰੇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    Today, Naam Dayv saw the Lord, and so I will instruct the ignorant. ||Pause||


    ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਗਾਇਤ੍ਰੀ ਲੋਧੇ ਕਾ ਖੇਤੁ ਖਾਤੀ ਥੀ ॥
    O Pandit, O religious scholar, your Gayatri was grazing in the fields.


    ਲੈ ਕਰਿ ਠੇਗਾ ਟਗਰੀ ਤੋਰੀ ਲਾਂਗਤ ਲਾਂਗਤ ਜਾਤੀ ਥੀ ॥੧॥
    Taking a stick, the farmer broke its leg, and now it walks with a limp. ||1||


    ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੁਮਰਾ ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਧਉਲੇ ਬਲਦ ਚੜਿਆ ਆਵਤੁ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਥਾ ॥
    O Pandit, I saw your great god Shiva, riding along on a white bull.


    ਮੋਦੀ ਕੇ ਘਰ ਖਾਣਾ ਪਾਕਾ ਵਾ ਕਾ ਲੜਕਾ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਥਾ ॥੨॥
    In the merchant's house, a banquet was prepared for him - he killed the merchant's son.

    ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੁਮਰਾ ਰਾਮਚੰਦੁ ਸੋ ਭੀ ਆਵਤੁ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਥਾ ॥
    O Pandit, I saw your Raam Chand coming too


    ਰਾਵਨ ਸੇਤੀ ਸਰਬਰ ਹੋਈ ਘਰ ਕੀ ਜੋਇ ਗਵਾਈ ਥੀ ॥੩॥
    ; he lost his wife, fighting a war against Raawan. ||3||


    ਹਿੰਦੂ ਅੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਤੁਰਕੂ ਕਾਣਾ ॥
    The Hindu is sightless; the Muslim has only one eye.


    ਦੁਹਾਂ ਤੇ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥
    The spiritual teacher is wiser than both of them.


    ਹਿੰਦੂ ਪੂਜੈ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥
    The Hindu worships at the temple, the Muslim at the mosque.


    ਨਾਮੇ ਸੋਈ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਜਹ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਨ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥੪॥੩॥੭॥
    Naam Dayv serves that Lord, who is not limited to either the temple or the mosque. ||4||3||7||



    here naam dev reject your bhairo , sheetla and maha mai


    Gond:


    ਭੈਰਉ ਭੂਤ ਸੀਤਲਾ ਧਾਵੈ ॥
    One who chases after the god Bhairau, sheetla .


    ਖਰ ਬਾਹਨੁ ਉਹੁ ਛਾਰੁ ਉਡਾਵੈ ॥੧॥
    is riding on a donkey, kicking up the dust. ||1||


    ਹਉ ਤਉ ਏਕੁ ਰਮਈਆ ਲੈਹਉ ॥
    I take only the Name of the One Lord.


    ਆਨ ਦੇਵ ਬਦਲਾਵਨਿ ਦੈਹਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    I have given away all other gods in exchange for Him. ||1||Pause||


    ਸਿਵ ਸਿਵ ਕਰਤੇ ਜੋ ਨਰੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥
    That man who chants "Shiva, Shiva", and meditates on him,


    ਬਰਦ ਚਢੇ ਡਉਰੂ ਢਮਕਾਵੈ ॥੨॥
    is riding on a bull, shaking a tambourine. ||2||


    ਮਹਾ ਮਾਈ ਕੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰੈ ॥
    One who worships the maha mai


    ਨਰ ਸੈ ਨਾਰਿ ਹੋਇ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੩॥
    will be reincarnated as a woman, and not a man. ||3||


    ਤੂ ਕਹੀਅਤ ਹੀ ਆਦਿ ਭਵਾਨੀ ॥
    You are called the Primal Goddess.


    ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ਕਹਾ ਛਪਾਨੀ ॥੪॥
    At the time of liberation, where will you hide then? ||4||


    ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਗਹੁ ਮੀਤਾ ॥
    Follow the Guru's Teachings, and hold tight to the Lord's Name, O friend.


    dear do'nt debate on names as in only jaap sahib guru sahib gave more than 2000 names of god

    god created millions of krishna s like worms

    ਨਮੋ ਆਦਿ ਅਭੰਗੇ ਨਮੋ ਆਦਿ ਅਭੰਗੇ ॥੫॥੯੫॥
    नमो आदि अभंगे नमो आदि अभंगे ॥५॥९५॥
    Salutation to Him, Who is Primal and Immortal; Salutation to Him who is Primal and Immortal.5.95.

    ਕਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਉਪਾਏ ॥
    किते क्रिसन से कीट कोटै उपाए ॥
    He hath Created millions of Krishnas like worms.

    ਉਸਾਰੇ ਗੜ੍ਹੇ ਫੇਰਿ ਮੇਟੇ ਬਨਾਏ ॥
    उसारे गड़्हे फेरि मेटे बनाए ॥
    He Created them, annihilated them, again destroyed them, still again Created them.


    ...

    ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਔ ਬਿਸਨ ਜਪੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਭਲੀ ਬਿਧਿ ਧਿਆਯੋ ॥
    क्रिसन औ बिसन जपे तुहि कोटिक राम रहीम भली बिधि धिआयो ॥
    Thou hast meditated on millions of Krishnas, Vishnus, Ramas and Rahims.

    ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਜਪਿਓ ਅਰੁ ਸੰਭੁ ਥਪਿਓ ਤਹਿ ਤੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਬਚਾਯੋ ॥
    ब्रहम जपिओ अरु स्मभु थपिओ तहि ते तुहि को किनहूं न बचायो ॥
    Thou hast recited the name of Brahma and established Shivalingam, even then none could save thee.



    and plz read the following as in hindu gods ganeshs name come first but my father says

    ਮੈ ਨ ਗਨੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਮਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਕਿਸ਼ਨ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹ ਧਿਆਊਂ ॥ਕਾਨ ਸੁਨੇ ਪਹਿਚਾਨ ਨ ਤਿਨ ਸੋਂ ॥ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਮੋਰੀ ਪਗ ਇਨ ਸੋਂ ॥੪੩੪॥
    मै न गनेशहि प्रिथम मनाऊं ॥ किशन बिशन कबहूं नह धिआऊं ॥कान सुने पहिचान न तिन सों ॥ लिव लागी मोरी पग इन सों ॥४३४॥
    I do not adore Ganesha in the beginning and also do not mediatate on Krishna and Vishnu; I have only heard about them with my ears and I do not recognize them; my consciousness is absorbed at the feet of the immortal .



    and more about vedas and puranas

    ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ ॥
    स्वैया ॥
    SWAYYA

    ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨਿਯੋ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤਿ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਿਯੋ ॥
    पांइ गहे जब ते तुमरे तब ते कोऊ आंख तरे नही आनियो ॥ राम रहीम पुरान कुरान अनेक कहैं मति एक न मानियो ॥
    O God ! the day when I caught hold of your feet, I do not bring anyone else under my sight; none other is liked by me now; the Puranas and the Quran try to know Thee by the names of Ram and Rahim and talk about you through several stories, but I do not accept any of their opinions;

    ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਯੋ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਪਾਨਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਹਿਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਿਯੋ ॥੮੬੩॥
    सिम्रिति सासत्र बेद सभै बहु भेद कहै हम एक न जानियो ॥ स्री असिपानि क्रिपा तुमरी करि मै न कहियो सभ तोहि बखानियो ॥८६३॥
    The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas describe several mysteries of yours, but I do not agree with any of them. O sword-wielder God! This all has been described by Thy Grace, what power can I have to write all this?.863.


    And also, why does it bother you so much to come to a Hindu forum and tell Hindus that Sikh's reject Hinduism? I mean, why would you bother with what Hindus believe if you have no respect or understanding of Hindu philosophy and teaching?

    dear it bothers me bcoz it bothered my father also .



    fateh jiyo ji

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    Re: khalsa rejects

    Namaskar,

    Quote Originally Posted by GURSIKH View Post
    guru nanak rejected vaishnav , shivite , dev pooja such as ganesh , hanuman ...and devi pooja durga , kali , vaishno mata ...and stone pooja as done in every hindu temple .
    Guru Gobind who actually created sikhism into a formal religion was a kali devotee and did puja to kali murthi before he went on every fight against the mullahs. Please check Sikh history.

    acc to guru there is only one formless and birthless , the father of the above mention gods ,


    fateh
    Guru Nanak took the best ideas from both Hinduism and Mullahism and was advocating the nirguna brahman, the thesis of Vedanta! However, your statement the formless is the 'father' is incorrect as that which is formless or nirguna cannot actually take the 'form' of a 'father' otherwise it won't be formless anylonger.

    In the true sense of the word, Guru Nanak was a Vedantist.

    In any case, Hindus in general don't care what sikhism has to say about its philosophies or the way of worship. This is because sikhism outside of punjab is sort of a foreign religion to most Indian or at least that is my experience.

    PS: Please consider reading the forum rules by clicking on FAQ. Flaming on this site is not allowed and I have no trouble in redirecting you to other forums on the internet where you can work your own personal agenda better.

    Thanks,
    satay

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    Re: khalsa rejects

    Namaskar,

    Just to make foolish statements such as you have made, and personal PMs to me such as you have made?
    Please report all such activities to me. All forum rules apply even on PM communication and abuse of others by any other member is not allowed even if it is hidden under Personal Messages.
    satay

  7. #7

    Re: khalsa rejects

    Quote Originally Posted by GURSIKH View Post
    guru nanak rejected vaishnav , shivite , dev pooja such as ganesh , hanuman ...and devi pooja durga , kali , vaishno mata ...and stone pooja as done in every hindu temple .


    acc to guru there is only one formless and birthless , the father of the above mention gods ,


    fateh
    Dear Friend, being an tough iconoclast is a not enough to be a good muslim ... but for now you are ok, as long as we idol worshipers are still around, the mullah will treat you as a dear friend.

    I don't know what Guru Govind Singh Ji have said to you ... oh, what has come to be of his life's work.
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

  8. #8

    Re: khalsa rejects

    deleted
    Last edited by Harjas Kaur; 25 October 2008 at 12:55 AM.

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    Re: khalsa rejects

    Vaheguroo Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Ji Ki Fateh

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    Namaskar,



    Guru Gobind who actually created sikhism into a formal religion was a kali devotee and did puja to kali murthi before he went on every fight against the mullahs. Please check Sikh history.
    Well that would depend on which version of history we choose to read! I have been studying the history of my Gurus (by their grace alone) since being a little child, this is one thing I have never come across
    So I think it is alot better to see Guru Gobind Singh Ji's OWN writings to understand Guru Maharaj's beliefs. Guru Gobind Singh Ji has written so much that there is no area we can have doubts about.
    Firstly, what has Guru Gobind Singh Ji said about himself?

    "Consider me as His(God's) servant and do not think of any difference between me and the Lord.32."

    Now, how can we possibly say that Guru Gobind Singh Ji worshipped any devi? If we say this we are saying that he who is the Lord himself worshipped a goddesss!

    I think you should read more of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bani to understand who he prayed to, banis like Akal Ustat, Jap Ji Sahib etc. all make 100% clear that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj was prayed only to one God, Akal Purakh Vaheguroo.
    Please read Chaupai Sahib, a very short bani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, translation of which can be read here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaupai_(Sikhism)#Translation_and_Transliteration_in_English


    You say that Guru Gobind Singh Ji did murti pooja, do you know what Guru Ji himself said about this?

    While worshipping stones some people are bowing before them and some others are withholding idols of stones in their necks. Some people have faith that God is in the south while others consider God, is toward the west and they are bowing their heads in those directions. Some people are worshiping idols foolishly while others are adoring the dead. The whole world is busy in such false performances without knowing the secret mystery of God. (Akal Ustat, Guru Gobind Singh Ji)


    I have killed hill Rajas (kings) who are bent on mischief. They are stone idol worshippers, I break idols and I worship one Lord. (Zaffarnama, Guru Gobind Singh Ji)


    Furthermore Sikhism is a path started by Vaheguru himself, and revealed to the world through Satguru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj the roop of Nirankar himself.



    Guru Nanak took the best ideas from both Hinduism and Mullahism and was advocating the nirguna brahman, the thesis of Vedanta!
    This statement is extremely insulting to me, a shisya of Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj. Guru Nanak Dev Ji did not 'take' anything from anywhere, for he is the Lord himself. As stated in Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj the only source of Gurbani is God alone:


    "O (Bhai) Lalo! As the Lord’s word comes to me so I deliver it."


    and

    “O Gursikhs! Know that the Baani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it.”

    and many more, please consult the following articles for further information:
    http://www.sikhism101.com/node/144
    http://www.sikhism101.com/node/145

    Furthermore the idea of God as formless is present in many religions, not just Vedism, so that is a very tribalistic mentality to think that anything that someone else beleives that has also been mentioned in the Vedas must have been taken from there.


    However, your statement the formless is the 'father' is incorrect as that which is formless or nirguna cannot actually take the 'form' of a 'father' otherwise it won't be formless anylonger.
    Perhaps this is the case for Hinduism however in Gurbani Vaheguroo has been referred to as both 'father' and 'mother', on various occasions.


    In the true sense of the word, Guru Nanak was a Vedantist.
    This is quite a hurtful and offensive statement. As I have stated many times, Guru Nanak Dev Ji is GOD himself, God is not bound by any ideology or scripture. Furthermore, Guru Nanak Dev Ji has clearly REJECTED the Vedas and all other hindu religious scriptures in Gurbani:

    "The Simritee is the daughter of the Vedas, O Siblings of Destiny. She has brought a chain and a rope. ||1||" (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 329)

    "The Vedas and the Scriptures are only make-believe, O Siblings of Destiny; they do not relieve the anxiety of the heart." (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 727)

    "Except the Word of the Guru, all other word is false. False is the Word that is not the true Guru’s. False are the speakers, false are the hearers, false are those who speak and recite." (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 917)


    The Simritees and the Shaastras discriminate between good and evil, but they do not know the true essence of reality. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 920)


    The great volumes of the Simritees and the Shaastras only extend the extension of attachment to Maya. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1053)



    And not forgetting Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj:

    "I do not accept the doctrines enunciated by various faiths, believing in Ram, Rahim, Puranas and Qoran.
    The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas mention different concepts but I do not subscribe to any of them.
    O God, the Sword-bearer (of justice)! With Your Grace, all that has been uttered by me has been done under Your command."


    Quote Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
    Dear Friend, being an tough iconoclast is a not enough to be a good muslim ... but for now you are ok, as long as we idol worshipers are still around, the mullah will treat you as a dear friend.

    I don't know what Guru Govind Singh Ji have said to you ... oh, what has come to be of his life's work.
    On behalf of the original poster, please make clear what you are insinuating by this statement, I hope you are aware that Sikhs are not muslims and have nothing to do with mullahs.



    Vaheguroo Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Ji Ki Fateh
    Last edited by Singh Khalsa; 27 October 2008 at 07:31 AM.

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    Re: khalsa rejects

    Quote Originally Posted by Singh Khalsa View Post
    Furthermore the idea of God as formless is present in many religions, not just Vedism, so that is a very tribalistic mentality to think that anything that someone else beleives that has also been mentioned in the Vedas must have been taken from there.
    How ignorant can you be? The Vedas are the OLDEST scriptures known to mankind and even the anti-Hindu anti-Indian filth will tell you that! Therefore, anything that resembles any philosophy of the Vedas has most definitely been COPIED and STOLEN from it. There is no beating around the bush for that.

    It is quite simple. At the time of the birth of Sikhism, Hinduism had degraded into mere ritualistic "bhakti" traditions in which most people blindly believed (still do) something and followed tradition. The "formless" you talk about is enshrined in the Rig Veda which is eternal; and the oldest religious text in existence! Therefore, any semblance of doubt regarding "others" coming up with their own theories for that is absolute nonsense!

    This is time when real low-level people are born. And hence a "follow the leader" type faith is required. As you can see, all religions like Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism, and especially the cults like christianity and islam have arisen in the Kali Yuga.

    Sanatana Dharma is eternal; regardless of what others think. Therefore, the principles stated in the Vedas about the nature of reality are not mere speculations and ramblings of some old coot in the forest/desert. They are the culmination of the EXPERIENCES of the rishis in Ancient India (Aryavarta).

    Funny how Buddhists, Sikhs, and other "dharmic" faith followers are vehemently anti-Hindu and of course the untouchable filth that are christians/muslims around the world as well. Times are tough for Hindus! tsk tsk.

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