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Thread: Jesus: Son of God or God only metaphorically as per usage of Bible

  1. #1

    Jesus: Son of God or God only metaphorically as per usage of Bible

    R H Kelkar, who has translated New Testament into Marathi, a language in South India, has made following observations in his write-up titled “The Meaning of ‘Nava Karar “which could be viewed in entirety at :

    http://marathibible.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/the-meaning-of-nava-karar/

    We only give here only one point mentioned by him:

    The New Testament or ‘Nava Karar’ portrays God as a loving and forgiving father, who sent His son Jesus Christ to this world in human form with an offer of salvation for all humanity.

    Paarsurrey says:

    The above point is not correctly derived by him from the OTBible; and hence it is not supported by Quran- the pristine and most secure Revealed Book among the Revealed Religions and hence incorrect. God is not a physical being; He has rather created the whole physical phenomenon as He willed. Nobody shares this or other of his attributes. Hence God is nobody’s physical or literal father.

    God is father of the humans in a metaphoric sense, nothing could get created without his order/will; and this is the theme of the OTBible. God has no literal wife or He needs no sex that his off-shoots are called Sons of God. This is only in the metaphoric sense otherwise it does not carry any meaning literally and physically. GodAllahYHWH needs no wife or son; this is only a phenomenon of the mortal beings and a sort of extension of life given by the Creator to one’s species. GodAllahYHWH is immortal.

    Quran is very clear in this aspect:

    [112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
    [112:2] Say ‘He is Allah, the One!
    [112:3] Allah the Independent and Besought of all.
    [112:4] ‘He begets not, nor, is He begotten,
    [112:5] And there is none like unto Him.

    http://www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=112

    We can agree with R H Kelkar if he reconciles to the above explanation.
    Jesus did not pay any debt of any human beings as maintained by R H Kelkar. Jesus never died a cursed death on Cross as incorrectly invented by Paul at Rome to misguide the Christian sheep. Jesus was not a scapegoat of Paul and his associated i.e., the Catholic Church.

    If anybody has any debt, he shall have to pay it himself. When Paul propounded this philosophy, Jesus was at that time traveling in India, happily among his Jewish lost sheep of which he was also a shepherd. He was never a shepherd of the Gentiles; this is a concept wrongly ascribed to Jesus; this debt Paul shall have to pay for.

    OTBible Says:

    Son of God
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. JOHN 3.16

    A DESCRIPTIVE TERM:

    And they made a proclamation in Judah and Jerusalem unto all the children of captivity. EZRA 10.7
    Then said he, These are the two sons of oil, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. ZECHARIA 4.14
    Behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial [satin], beset the house round about. JUDGES 19.22
    The good seed are the children of the kingdom. MATTHEW 13.38

    JESUS NOT THE FIRST BORN SON:

    ANGELS

    Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan was among them. JOB 1.6 & 2:1
    When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy. JOB 38.7

    CHILDREN OF RIGHTEOUS:

    That the sons of god saw the daughters of men that they were fair. GENESIS 6.2

    THE ISRAELITES:

    And thou shalt say to Pharaoh. Thus said the Lord, Israel is my son, even my first born. EXODUS 4.22

    And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me. EXODUS 4.23
    You are the children of the Lord, your God. DEUTERONOMY 14.1
    Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea. Ye are the sons of the living God. HOSEA 1.10

    http://www.alislam.org/library/books/biblical/chapter_4.html

    Ahmadiyya under guidance of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 Says:

    • The Term “Son of God”

    While the term “Son of God” has been used in reference to Jesus, it should be noted that God has used this title for many of His chosen ones.
    For example, God, in the Old Testament refers to David: “I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: He said to me, ‘You are my Son; today I have begotten you’” * (Psalm 2:7)

    Furthermore, in a New Testament genealogy, Adam is listed as the “Son of God” (Luke 3.38).

    In fact, some may argue that Adam could have a greater claim over the “Sonship of God” because, unlike Jesus, he had neither an earthly father nor mother.

    In order to reconcile these references and many others, it is not unreasonable to conclude, that the Biblical usage of the term “Son of God” does not necessarily connote a literal “sonship to God” but a metaphorical one instead.

    The Nature of Jesus

    This metaphorical understanding is furthered by Jesus’ own words and actions. Jesus is known to have engaged in many human devotional activities such as fasting and praying. But perhaps the most significant evidence is that Jesus claimed to lack knowledge of the future because, as he claimed, only the Father possessed perfect knowledge. (Mark 13:32).

    This is especially notable since Christian doctrine holds the view that Jesus’ nature is a “hypostatic union”. That is, he was “fully divine” and “fully man” at the same time. If this were true, then he should have at no point denied his own omniscience.

    These, in addition to other philosophical considerations, lead one to question the biblical term “Son of God” and its literal application to Jesus.

    http://www.alislam.org/topics/jesus/

    Thanks
    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
    http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com

  2. #2
    lazylong6 Guest

    Re: Jesus: Son of God or God only metaphorically as per usage of Bible

    i don't think there is a need to be complicated here. I believe it just means god is the creator and we are his* creations. Therefore god as father and we as his sons can be rightly said so.

  3. #3

    Re: Jesus: Son of God or God only metaphorically as per usage of Bible

    First of all i would hate to be in Joseph's shoes. Can you imagine his wife Mary goin up to him and telling him...

    Mary--- I'm pregnant and i'm also a virgin mary.

    Joseph---Jesus Christ are you for real?

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    Re: Jesus: Son of God or God only metaphorically as per usage of Bible

    Quote Originally Posted by Ali View Post
    First of all i would hate to be in Joseph's shoes. Can you imagine his wife Mary goin up to him and telling him...

    Mary--- I'm pregnant and i'm also a virgin mary.

    Joseph---Jesus Christ are you for real?
    Namaste all,

    It is not proper to discuss someone's else faith in absence of any knowledgable person from that faith. This is because it leads to a discussion which has a biased view without having a complete picture.

    Moreover, why are you worried over faith which doesn't belong to you ? Christianity has given a lot of great saints to this world & so has Islam. If God really felt that there was anything wrong in any faith & would have really not liked that, how long would He take to finish all those followers of that faith ? If He has to depend upon others for this work, he cannot be called omnipotent in true sense.

    So, whether a religion is right or wrong ... let's leave it to God & to the believers of that faith to decide. Q'uran says, "Let there be no compulsion in religion" ( Q'uran: 2.256). If we truly abide by that, why discuss any religion disparagingly ?

    For the Christians, Christ is more real than you & me. Let's respect that belief with all humility.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  5. #5

    Re: Jesus: Son of God or God only metaphorically as per usage of Bible

    Namaste Ali,
    Don't Muslim also believe in virign birth of Isa?
    And Muslims are supposed to treat Jesus as a prophet, right?
    Regards,
    Kosha

    Quote Originally Posted by Ali View Post
    First of all i would hate to be in Joseph's shoes. Can you imagine his wife Mary goin up to him and telling him...

    Mary--- I'm pregnant and i'm also a virgin mary.

    Joseph---Jesus Christ are you for real?

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    Re: Jesus: Son of God or God only metaphorically as per usage of Bible

    Quote Originally Posted by Ali View Post
    First of all i would hate to be in Joseph's shoes. Can you imagine his wife Mary goin up to him and telling him...

    Mary--- I'm pregnant and i'm also a virgin mary.

    Joseph---Jesus Christ are you for real?
    Namaste Ali,

    I am not surprised. The knower who knows the self as spirit will know that the spirit is ever untainted and ever virgin. God comes to them as their offspring. Unfortunately, those who think that the inert body can think and procreate, question scripture with their materialistic perspective, the way you have done.

    Om
    Last edited by atanu; 02 December 2008 at 10:43 AM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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    Re: Jesus: Son of God or God only metaphorically as per usage of Bible

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    Namaste Ali,

    I am not surprised. The knower who knows the self as spirit will know that the spirit is ever untainted and ever virgin. God comes to them as their offspring. Unfortunately, those who think that the inert body can think and procreate, question scripture with their materialistic perspective, the way you have done.

    Om
    Salam Ali

    For Sanatana Dharma followers, the pure consciousness, the pure awareness of the existence is the Mother. That same consciousness in egos when clear and virgin brings in God. That same pure consciousness in egos when muddied and polluted brings in Demons.

    In this regard also, the esoteric teaching is same in Christianity and Hinduism and may be in Islam also (i am not aware though).

    Om
    Last edited by atanu; 02 December 2008 at 11:36 PM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  8. #8

    Re: Jesus: Son of God or God only metaphorically as per usage of Bible

    Namaste atanu,
    In Islam the pure conciousness of soul is known as 'Ruh' and Ego is known as 'Nafs'. 'Ruh' is pure and pious and it has natural inclination to submit to one God, that inclination is known as 'Fitrah'. So, small children has 'Fitrah' more visible. As a man grows up, he is more and more affected by 'nafs' and gets away from Fitrah. And the greater Jihad is to fight the 'nafs'

    Jai Shri Krishna.


    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    Salam Ali

    For Sanatana Dharma followers, the pure consciousness, the pure awareness of the existence is the Mother. That same consciousness in egos when clear and virgin brings in God. That same pure consciousness in egos when muddied and polluted brings in Demons.

    In this regard also, the esoteric teaching is same in Christianity and Hinduism and may be in Islam also (i am not aware though).

    Om

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    Re: Jesus: Son of God or God only metaphorically as per usage of Bible

    Quote Originally Posted by reflections View Post
    Namaste atanu,
    In Islam the pure conciousness of soul is known as 'Ruh' and Ego is known as 'Nafs'. 'Ruh' is pure and pious and it has natural inclination to submit to one God, that inclination is known as 'Fitrah'. So, small children has 'Fitrah' more visible. As a man grows up, he is more and more affected by 'nafs' and gets away from Fitrah. And the greater Jihad is to fight the 'nafs'

    Jai Shri Krishna.

    Namaste Reflections,

    Thank you for the guidance. I value your knowledge of Dharmic traditions.

    Regards

    Om
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  10. #10

    Re: Jesus: Son of God or God only metaphorically as per usage of Bible

    What i wrote before was just a joke...Did not disrespect any religion and we are all one family. No matter what race, color or language we speak, there is only one true GOD that we have come from.

    We Muslim's believe in Isa Nabi (Jesus Christ) as our Prophet.

    here is the ayat from the Quran where Allah tells us that Jesus was not crusified.

    That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not (Sura An-Nisa; 4:157)

    Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise (Sura An-Nia; 4:158)
    In Remembrance of Allah Do Hearts find rest.

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