Re: Chaos and cosmos
Namaste Amra.
Originally Posted by
amra
"Brahman as the Cosmic Consciousness is the substratum of both cosmos and chaos"
This is indeed true but of this as the Veda say nothing can be said or not said. Every discussion can be cut off by using this statement. Instead of using this as an excuse or rather defence mechanism in the face of awkward questions let us have the graciousness to address some of the points that have been raised.
Yajvan brought in the gods BrahmA, VishNu and Rudra and suggested that they might be "names we give to macro-qualities of nature". This is why I brought in Brahman who is behind nature as the immanent consciousness, driving and keeping it order. It does not mean that once we bring in Brahman, we shut out all superficial discussions. We can think of the white screen and talk of the movie as well and finally try to show that the order and chaos of the movie is nothing more than shades of light and sound projected on the substratum of the white screen.
Originally Posted by
amra
This origin is a level in the universe of an order higher than on the Earth. A level more conscious. Consciousness is order all laws descend from this but when they lose connection with consciouness they become tools of chaos. There is no ordering principle, things begin to deterioate entropy is increased until we come to jada pure inert material. This is chaos. Pure non being 'a dog giving birth to a kangaroo'
This is a good point I would heartily agree to, but there is one hitch. You say that order is where the connection with the consciousness is in tact and the loss of this connection brings in chaos. What makes certain things and beings to lose the connection and certain others to keep it? What can be said as answer to this question within the confines of physical science?
For example, an insane man is chaotic in thoughts, emotions and action. Still, his manifest body must obey all the physical and physiological laws, though his mind does not. In other words, the order in his physical body is due to its keeping connection with the consciousness and the chaos in mind is due to its losing this connection. But then there is only one consciousness as the substratum of both his body and mind! What exactly is the reason that his grossly physical nature is in perfect order (always in touch with the consciousness) while his subtly physical mind is in chaos (losing its connection with consciousness)?
If there is no (scientifically apparent) reason for the above mentioned order and chaos, then the offspring of an insane person must also be mad, but it never (if at all) happens in life. Suppose science is able to clone an insane man; will he be insane too?
As in the human body, so in the universe--the point you have brought in is an eminent truth and this brings in the 'science' of astrology, and I hope Yajvan would be glad to elaborate on this connection, for I know much less of it.
Thus, IMO, all theories and notions of physical sciences have their answers only in the metaphysical science behind it. The very notion of consciousness you have brought in, the concept of One Being, (both are synonyms for Brahman) though accepted by modern physics, cannot be explained within its confines. Metaphysics and Philosophy are not just dogma or faith; they are as empiral and disciplined as science. The ultimate perception of the unity in chaos and order, as Atanu would point out, is only in Self-Realization, which is subjective, and Simex would be correct there!
Last edited by saidevo; 03 April 2009 at 12:23 PM.
रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥
To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.
--viShNu purANam
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