Does Islam appreciate other faith?

[Bishawjit]

If Islam is the religion of peace and if it appreciates other faith why did Allah sent these revelations which does not sound good to the ear of disbelievers(prople from other faith)....


Whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) ... he will be a loser in the Hereafter 3:85


Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 2:217

Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 2:257

Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2:6
Those who purchase disbelief at the price of faith harm Allah not at all, but theirs will be a painful doom.
3:177

there are still lot more verses that can be added. but those are enough. can anyone refute these verses as not a threat?

[satay]

Admin Note

Namaskar,
Please note that there are no (active) muslims on this forum to defend or refute these or any other verses from koran.

You may post these at a muslim forum and might get a better reaction than you would get from HDF members.

Thanks,

[devotee]

If Islam is the religion of peace and if it appreciates other faith why did Allah sent these revelations which does not sound good to the ear of disbelievers(prople from other faith)....


Whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) ... he will be a loser in the Hereafter 3:85


Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 2:217

Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 2:257

Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2:6
Those who purchase disbelief at the price of faith harm Allah not at all, but theirs will be a painful doom.
3:177

there are still lot more verses that can be added. but those are enough. can anyone refute these verses as not a threat?

Namaste Bishwajit,

The Q'uranic verses have to be seen in correct perspective keeping in mind in what context these revelations were made. The problem is that what has been said in a peculiar context, what has been said for a social structure prevailing at a certain time has been extrapolated to be true for all situations. The verses are alright, but has to be understood in proper context.

I am slightly busy now, I shall get back to you with my opinion on each verses you have quoted.

OM

[devotee]

Namaste Bishwajit,

I have quoted the exact verses from Quran just below quotes given by you in the OP. I am giving my opinion below in blue color.

[Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 2:217]

[2.217]
They ask you about the Sacred Months and fighting therein: say, "Fighting therein is a sacrilege. However, repelling from the path of GOD and disbelieving in Him and in the sanctity of the Sacred Masjid, and evicting its people, are greater sacrileges in the sight of GOD. Oppression is worse than murder." They will always fight you to revert you from your religion, if they can. Those among you who revert from their religion, and die as disbelievers, have nullified their works in this life and the Hereafter. These are the dwellers of Hell, wherein they abide forever.
To understand this verse, we must understand the correct meaning of believer, disbelief, Islam etc. The religion of surrendering oneself (i.e. one’s ego/ahamkaar) before Allah/God/Parameshwar is Islam. That who believes in God & his words is a believer. In some places it has been made mandatory to believe in his messenger & the book (i.e. Quran) too. But the true believer must believe in the Truth of all religions & also the messenger otherwise there is some lacking in his understanding, love & belief.

Now, “if one dies as disbeliever will abide in hell for ever” … what does this mean ? If you are a disbeliever you are still in Maya of this world & therefore you will keep going into cycles of deaths & births (i.e. painful lives or hell) until you have found true faith.

[Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 2:257]
[2:257] GOD is Lord of those who believe; He leads them out of darkness into the light. As for those who disbelieve, their lords are their idols; they lead them out of the light into darkness - these will be the dwellers of Hell; they abide in it forever.

"False Gods” & “Idol worship” è this, perhaps are the most misunderstood terms in all Abrahamic religions. In all Abrahmic scritptures, God proclaims that there is no god but God, i.e. there is only one God. So, the question of any “false God” or “God of Idol” doesn’t arise. When one worships an imagel of God, he is not an idol-worshipper because he pretty well knows that idol is just a symbol but he is worshipping the omnipresent, omnipresent God through the symbol. But then what is idol-worship. “Idol” is something which you love most … so, loving anything more than God is idol-worship … your idol may be money, fame, power, beauty, sex or any worldly object. If you do idol worship, you are having false God & therefore, there is no exit from the cycles of life & death for you & you will burn in the pains of this world / hell until you find True faith.

Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2:6
[2:6] As for those who disbelieve, it is the same for them; whether you warn them, or not warn them, they cannot believe.

This is a perfect verse for those who want to force their understanding on other & indulge in conversion. The meaning is that God will take care of those who disbelieve, don’t worry about them.

Those who purchase disbelief at the price of faith harm Allah not at all, but theirs will be a painful doom.[/font]

[3:177] Those who choose disbelief, instead of belief, do not hurt GOD in the least; they have incurred a painful retribution.

I think this verse doesn’t need any explanation if seen in the way I have discussed above.

Whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) ... he will be a loser in the Hereafter 3:85

[3:85] Anyone who accepts other than Submission as his religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter, he will be with the losers.

This too.

Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

[2:191] You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.

This is also one of the the most misunderstood verses in Quran. Please see this in the context of a war. Killing is justified in war time in all religions including Hinduism. Moreover, if such killings were justified, then why God would prohibit killing of any inncocent soul in Quran, as has been quoted below.
Please see these verses in Quran against killing any innocent :

“Do not take life, which Allah has made sacred, except through justice and the law. He orders this so that you may acquire wisdom" (6:151)

"Do not take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for a just cause. If anyone is killed unjustly, We allow his heir (to seek justice) but do not allow him to exceed bounds when it comes to taking life, for he is helped (by the law)" (17:33).

Killing a person unjustly is the same as killing all of humanity, and saving a person is the same as saving all humanity. (5:32.]

OM

[sm78]

Namaste Bishwajit,

I have quoted the exact verses from Quran just below quotes given by you in the OP. I am giving my opinion below in red color.

[Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 2:217]

[2.217] They ask you about the Sacred Months and fighting therein: say, "Fighting therein is a sacrilege. However, repelling from the path of GOD and disbelieving in Him and in the sanctity of the Sacred Masjid, and evicting its people, are greater sacrileges in the sight of GOD. Oppression is worse than murder." They will always fight you to revert you from your religion, if they can. Those among you who revert from their religion, and die as disbelievers, have nullified their works in this life and the Hereafter. These are the dwellers of Hell, wherein they abide forever.

To understand this verse, we must understand the correct meaning of believer, disbelief, Islam etc. The religion of surrendering oneself (i.e. one’s ego/ahamkaar) before Allah/God/Parameshwar is Islam. That who believes in God & his words is a believer. In some places it has been made mandatory to believe in his messenger & the book (i.e. Quran) too. But the true believer must believe in the Truth of all religions & also the messenger otherwise there is some lacking in his understanding, love & belief.

Now, “if one dies as disbeliever will abide in hell for ever” … what does this mean ? If you are a disbeliever you are still in Maya of this world & therefore you will keep going into cycles of deaths & births (i.e. painful lives or hell) until you have found true faith.

[Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 2:257]
[2:257] GOD is Lord of those who believe; He leads them out of darkness into the light. As for those who disbelieve, their lords are their idols; they lead them out of the light into darkness - these will be the dwellers of Hell; they abide in it forever.

"False Gods” & “Idol worship” è this, perhaps are the most misunderstood terms in all Abrahamic religions. In all Abrahmic scritptures, God proclaims that there is no god but God, i.e. there is only one God. So, the question of any “false God” or “God of Idol” doesn’t arise. When one worships an imagel of God, he is not an idol-worshipper because he pretty well knows that idol is just a symbol but he is worshipping the omnipresent, omnipresent God through the symbol. But then what is idol-worship. “Idol” is something which you love most … so, loving anything more than God is idol-worship … your idol may be money, fame, power, beauty, sex or any worldly object. If you do idol worship, you are having false God & therefore, there is no exit from the cycles of life & death for you & you will burn in the pains of this world / hell until you find True faith.

Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2:6
[2:6] As for those who disbelieve, it is the same for them; whether you warn them, or not warn them, they cannot believe.

This is a perfect verse for those who want to force their understanding on other & indulge in conversion. The meaning is that God will take care of those who disbelieve, don’t worry about them.

Those who purchase disbelief at the price of faith harm Allah not at all, but theirs will be a painful doom.[/font]

[3:177] Those who choose disbelief, instead of belief, do not hurt GOD in the least; they have incurred a painful retribution.

I think this verse doesn’t need any explanation if seen in the way I have discussed above.

Whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) ... he will be a loser in the Hereafter 3:85

[3:85] Anyone who accepts other than Submission as his religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter, he will be with the losers.

This too.

Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

[2:191] You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.

This is also one of the the most misunderstood verses in Quran. Please see this in the context of a war. Killing is justified in war time in all religions including Hinduism. Moreover, if such killings were justified, then why God would prohibit killing of any inncocent soul in Quran, as has been quoted below.
Please see these verses in Quran against killing any innocent :

“Do not take life, which Allah has made sacred, except through justice and the law. He orders this so that you may acquire wisdom" (6:151)

"Do not take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for a just cause. If anyone is killed unjustly, We allow his heir (to seek justice) but do not allow him to exceed bounds when it comes to taking life, for he is helped (by the law)" (17:33).

Killing a person unjustly is the same as killing all of humanity, and saving a person is the same as saving all humanity. (5:32.]

OM

LOL...but on a more serious note the color red is little too bright for the eye.

[sm78]

If Islam is the religion of peace and if it appreciates other faith why did Allah sent these revelations which does not sound good to the ear of disbelievers(prople from other faith)....


Whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) ... he will be a loser in the Hereafter 3:85


Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 2:217

Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 2:257

Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2:6
Those who purchase disbelief at the price of faith harm Allah not at all, but theirs will be a painful doom.
3:177

there are still lot more verses that can be added. but those are enough. can anyone refute these verses as not a threat?

Somebody wrote to me as a reply to an article I posted on ivarta. I post his mail and my reply here. The reason is to cut short this defending attacking and posting business and come straight to the point. What to do about it? I post my take on the issue, and if you are facing the same dilemma as myself and others, this is what I make of it. It may or may not help.

All your articles are upto the mark.All you say is absolutely right.But it should be noted that unless and untill the common hindu really know all the partialities towards them and the hatred campaign against them it is not possible to make all of them aware of the same.Today even mass media is against Hindu`s and if anybody says anything favourable to hindu`s and against Other communities he is regarded as vishpurush aS IN THe case of Varun gandhi.It is really very shamefu that hindus are fighting hindus for muslims and other countries.I must say that when the same raping,buthering and torturing will happen to the so called secular hindus in the near future ,only then they realize the exact price of being secular.But those so called secular hindus will not face that type of situation because they ,at their heart, the real followers of Islam and they just pretend and allude gullible hindus that they are their true saviour,well wisher and secularism is the best way to live hapilly.So,this will not be a problem to all of the secular hindus,who really are the followers of arab culture,because when the choice is to be made to choose Islam or death,secular hindus ,with no hesitation,accept Islam.But for a true devout hindu choice will only be of dying as our secular brothers are ploughing the ground for the required harvest.That harvest is not far away it is approaching and approaching.Let them be more in strength,our lives will be no better that the living hells.What should be done ,I really don`t know.Please suggest me some tactics to make every one aware of the devastating and destructing ,past and future,effects of secularism and secular Hindus.

What you say is 100% true, and the truth is I too don't know what to do from our humble levels. I wrote the article on Shaktivad which is the only means of salvation out of this mess, but only people in power can really implement its ideas. We ordinary men can do little except just keep on telling others the danger our civilization is in.

My experience is that when you try to tell others, it is only the people who already are aware of the danger respond. For example you are responding to my article, but you are already aware of it and have felt the pain of the present situation by your self per haves for a long time.

The problem our civilization is facing is lack of leaders for a very very long time. There have been occasional great sparks in history, but they were alone in their crusade and the people forgot them or never bothered about them.

We have been worshiping saints and yogis as Gods, but these saints and yogis are not as great as our cultural conditioning have made us to believe. I have not found any solution or even any voice of concern and much less any action on the part of our godmen who also have leadership responsibilities to the society. It is difficult for me to grasp how a threat so evident and a pain so easily felt by ordinary persons like you and me are not being felt by our gurus, acharyas and yogis who continue to talk as if we are living in a dream world and doing a few pranayamas or this and that sadhana without any action will save the day.

Less we talk of political leader (right or secular), better. I am not yet sure of Varun Gandhi. If he really feels for hindus (which is difficult to believe) we must rally behind him as he is young and dynamic. But I doubt all these is just dramatics to beat up support.

But we can only be saved if the people in power and of influence (which includes our so called saints and gurus who command millions) start acting for good and not for their own image and glory. Till then people like you and I can only endure the pain as we see our own land, culture and people being devoured by a nexus of selfish so called hindus, secular Indians and the demons of mecca.

If we stop feeling this pain, I am sure we will be born among these demons again in our next life. If we feel the sorrow for our motherland and its glorious culture and try to educate others of the same (even if no good may come out of it), I believe we are at least destined for a less digenerate life next time.

One further point, I believe the best thing for a Hindu to do is really spend time understand and practice his religion by means of scientific upasana / worship. I'll suggest you give a go at shaktivadi upasana which was devised as a common minimum for all and educate yourself on shativad before venturing into the real scriptures of our dharma. Be informed, what we understand today is through the cob-web of a thousand years of many false notions and conditioning.

[satay]

namaskar singhi,

Nice post.

Do you recommend a specific site or books etc. for shaktipat?

One further point, I believe the best thing for a Hindu to do is really spend time understand and practice his religion by means of scientific upasana / worship. I'll suggest you give a go at shaktivadi upasana which was devised as a common minimum for all and educate yourself on shativad before venturing into the real scriptures of our dharma. Be informed, what we understand today is through the cob-web of a thousand years of many false notions and conditioning.

[satay]

Pranam devotee,

You have provided a very intelligent and logical explanation of the verses. I wonder though how many muslims actually understand the verses as you have explained here. Perhaps that point is irrelevant.

Namaste Bishwajit,

I have quoted the exact verses from Quran just below quotes given by you in the OP. I am giving my opinion below in red color.

[Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 2:217]
OM

[devotee]

I wonder though how many muslims actually understand the verses as you have explained here. Perhaps that point is irrelevant.

Namaste Satay,

It is not irrelevant. It is our tragedy.

I think there are still lessons to be learnt.

OM

[Bishawjit]

Admin Note

Namaskar,
Please note that there are no (active) muslims on this forum to defend or refute these or any other verses from koran.

You may post these at a muslim forum and might get a better reaction than you would get from HDF members.

Thanks,

Namaskar satay, thanks for the note, i was bit confused about these verses. but Devotee cleared up my confusion.

Regards