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Thread: daivayoga, chance, karma & fate

  1. #21
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    Re: daivayoga, chance, karma & fate

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    Namasté VC,


    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana View Post
    Dear Yajavan:


    The word equanimity, which is beyond Gunas, does not mean to completely ignore the Gunas, good or bad, but to put all these on the table. I do not think all knowing God gave us Gunas without purpose. There is no life without Gunas.
    Let me see if I can explain the notion offered by Kṛṣṇa. His directive (vidhi) is not an intellectual concept that is to be accepted or rejected by the mind, as if one was picking a political view on an issue. It is a reality of Awareness thay gets established within ones Being - that is why He says yogastaḥ kuru karmāṇi.

    you write
    The word equanimity, which is beyond Gunas, does not mean to completely ignore the Gunas
    I do not see 'equanimity' in this śloka. Nor do I see it in the 45th śloka. The offer and direction is to be beyond them, established in
    ātmavān ( the SELF, Brahman) , per sloka 45.

    VC, it is not a question of the guna's being on or off the table - it is the state of Being in which the guna-s no longer inhabit ones behavior that push and pull the mind.

    This level of Being is not an intellectual concept ( I mention again) , nor a mood where one can choose ' I like this, I think I will reject that in this concept ' - it is a new Reality that dawns and the guna-s no longer have their sway over the sadhu.

    This is what ( IMHO) I think you may be missing. It's not a philosophical concept to be accepted or rejected. Once one is possessed of the SELF, the guna-s do not control the person. Kṛṣṇa is telling us this is most desirable. Why? moha¹ is gone. One is free from duality ( brought by the guna-s), without anxieties ( chapter 6,18th śloka, free from cravings) , yet filled with the Supreme.

    you write
    There is no life without Gunas
    The guna-s act within themselves - they continue. But for the person established in the SELF 'there is no action he need to do' (chapter 3, 17th śloka. What does this mean? we can address it later.

    What I believe you may be missing , you are NOT the body. The body is a bundle of flesh, bones, etc. that are managed by nature (the 3 guna-s are the ambassators). Kṛṣṇa is quite clear about this... He says in Chapter 2, 12th śloka - There never was a time when I was not, nor you, nor these rulers of men. Nor will there ever be a time when all of us cease to be. VC, your body is consumed by time and goes to the wind, yet the ātman ( the SELF, Brahman) is never lost, as it was never born.

    This is who you really are and it is not part of the 3 guna-s (ever).

    If you miss this point, then the core value of Bhāgavad gītā is lost in words.

    praṇām

    words

    • vidhi विधि- a rule , formula , injunction , ordinance , statute , precept , law , direction
    • moha मोह - bewilderment , perplexity , distraction , infatuation , delusion, error
    Last edited by yajvan; 21 April 2009 at 05:49 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #22
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    Re: daivayoga, chance, karma & fate

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    Namasté

    In post #18 I wrote the following which requires a bit more information to round out the idea for your consideration:
    This condition then of Being is established in purity, independent of possessions, and possessed of the SELF , says Kṛṣṇa. One is freed from the field of duality - this is where the turmoil resides. One is tossed about like a ship on the ocean with no rudder - pushed from one wave to another. The guna-s have their play with you.
    Why does Keśava mention 'independent of possessions' ? They no longer have their sway on the person. One is beyond possessions, there is no need to aquire. The key word used is niryogakṣema. It suggests that in this state of Being one free from the nagging thoughts of gaining what one does not have or even preserving the possessions one may have at the time.

    In the Taittirīya Upaniṣad , śikṣā vallī ( 11th anuvāyka or sub-section) says, Speak the truth (satyaṁ), practice righteousness (dharmaṁ), do not neglect your self study (svādhyāya). It continues and says, let there be no neglect of righteusness (dharmaṁ), let there be no neglect of protecting yourself (kuśalānna), let there be no neglect of prosperity (bhūti).

    For the householder this suggests how one should live a balanced life while respecting (and practicing) the wisdom of Self-knowledge and higher learning.

    What is my point? that of possessions. One needs these as a householder. The word used in the śloka is bhūtyai or bhūti which means well-being , thriving , prosperity , might , power , wealth , fortune. This word also means existence, being.

    What is this telling us? Yes , do not forget your well-being, yet do not forget where this comes from , Being, existence. The notion (for me) is have these possessions, but do not be possessed by them. As Kṛṣṇa suggested, independent of possessions, niryogakṣema, mentioned in the quoted of post #18 above.

    praṇām
    Last edited by yajvan; 23 April 2009 at 04:29 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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