Great Questions...

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namast� devotee,

sufferings are also necessary for keeping us on the right path.

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional... The Dali Lama


praṇām

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté devotee,

you write,

sufferings are also necessary for keeping us on the right path.

From Talks with Śrī Nisargadatta Mahraj - I Am That

Q: The universe does not seem a happy place to live in.
Why is there so much suffering?

A: Śrī Nisargadatta Mahraj:
Pain is physical, suffering is mental. Beyond the mind there is no suffering. Pain is merely a signal that the body is in danger and requires attention.
Similarly, suffering warns us that the structure of memories and habit, which we call the person (vyakti&#185 is threatened by loss or change.
Pain is essential for the survival of the body, but none compels you to suffer. Suffering is due entirely to clinging and resisting. It is a sign of our unwillingness to move on, to flow with life.
As a sane life is free of pain, so is a saintly life free from suffering.


praṇām

words
vyakti व्यक्ति- an individual; specific appearance , distinctness; visible appearance or manifestation , becoming evident or known or public

[devotee]

Namaste VcIndiana & Yajvan ji,

Thanks VcIndiana for your views !

Pain is essential for the survival of the body, but none compels

you to suffer. Suffering is due entirely to clinging and resisting. It is a sign of our unwillingness to move on, to flow with life.

You are absolutely correct, Yajvan ji.

Regards,

OM

[atanu]

Namaste,

Thanks Atanu !

Sorry Satay, I think there was no need for me to be too prompt ! I didn't think too much about the Professor. Yes, I was a bit surprised.

I also have a question which always bothers me.

If this World is nothing but a dream of the great Dreamer, why this dream is made more like a nightmare than a sweet dream ? Was it really necessary to fill this world with so much pains & sufferings ? What was the harm in creating a little better world where everyone would have sufficient food to eat, a home -- the basic necessities of life ? Pain is ok to keep one alert but, imho, God forgot to have a proper sense of proportion when he decided to create this world !

OM

Namaste Devotee,

Good answers have already been given for your query, which bothers most of us and which impels us to dig deeper. I wish to augment with two more points.

First, who says that the world is created unequal and painful? The world does not say that it is unequal. Neither does Brahman say so. A third factor (entity) perceives the ills and goods. Second, why everyone, while being devoid of all possesions and while being devoid of the body-mind, in deep sleep, is blissful?

The reality called Brahman is inherently saman, but an unequal mind, perturbed by unequal thoughts find the world unequal and painful. Our memories again and again draw us to the wrong idea "I am this" and subsequent perceptions. The practise of meditation to unite the mind with saman Brahman does only remove the error.

Where there is perception of another there is fear and other ills. As in dream, the dream seems very real, in waking life, which is another dream of mind (and not of Brahman's), the perception of 'otherness' is so real. In dream, a bread being eaten is so real. In waking life also, the bread being eaten is so real. No one, while dreaming, can ascertain that the nighmare is a nightmare. So, being in the waking dream, it is not possible to ascertain that the ills are the mere nightmares of the mind. Unbroken yoga can only remove the errors of perceptions that karma is eternal, avidya is eternal, "I am a doer", and that "Brahman is creator".


Om Namah Shivaya

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namast� devotee,

You are absolutely correct, Yajvan ji.

Just to insure I keep (my) ego parked at the curb, this wisdom belongs to Śrī Nisargadatta Mahraj. I am just the messenger.

Yet his words are wise and ring true for me - and I hope for others.

praṇām

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

Where there is perception of another there is fear and other ills.

atanu-ji offers wise words.... we find the same in the following:
Bṛhadaraṇyaka Upaniṣad - Puruṣavidha-Brāhmaṇa, 2nd śloka.
dvitiyad vai bhayam bhavati

Any time there is a sense of 2, fear arises i.e. Fear is born of duality.

• dvitiyad or dvitia द्वित- 2nd or two
• bhayam or bhaya भय- fear , alarm dread apprehension
  ( rooted in bhī to fear for , be anxious about )
• vai an emphasis and affirmation , generally placed after a word
  and laying stress on it (it is usually translatable by 'indeed' ,
  'truly' , 'certainly' )
• bhavati or bhava भव arising or produced from , being in

praṇām

[devotee]

First, who says that the world is created unequal and painful? The world does not say that it is unequal. Neither does Brahman say so. A third factor (entity) perceives the ills and goods. Second, why everyone, while being devoid of all possesions and while being devoid of the body-mind, in deep sleep, is blissful?

Namaste Atanu,

This is another good one from you, Atanu. You echo the voice of Maharishi Ramana.

However, does enlightenment lead one to becoming a dead-wood to the pains & sufferings of others ? Do I ever like to say, "Sorry, I am too enlightened to be bothered by the sufferings of my friend." ? I think, NO.

Where there is perception of another there is fear and other ills.

That is absolutely true. But why is it so hard to remove all conditioning of "Ahamkar" ?

Regards,

OM

[atanu]

Namaste Atanu,
However, does enlightenment lead one to becoming a dead-wood to the pains & sufferings of others ? Do I ever like to say, "Sorry, I am too enlightened to be bothered by the sufferings of my friend." ? I think, NO.

Namaste Devotee,

If i am destined to see pain of others then i will see it that way. But probably that is not always true.

V-xii-1: Some say that food is Brahman. It is not so, for food rots without the vital force. Others say that the vital force is Brahman. It is not so, for the vital force dries up without food. But these two deities being united attain their highest. So Pratrda said to his father, �What good indeed can I do to one who knows like this, and what evil indeed can I do to him either?� The father, with a gesture of the hand, said, �Of, no, Pratrda, for who would attain his highest by being identified with them ?� Then he said to him this: �It is "Vi". Food is "vi", for all these creatures rest on food. It is "Ram". The vital force is "Ram", for all these creatures delight if there is the vital force�. On him who knows as above all creatures rest, and in him all creatures delight.

V-xiii-1: (One should meditate upon the vital force as) the Uktha (a hymn of praise). The vital force is the Uktha, for it raises this universe. From him who knows as above rises a son who is a knower of the vital force, and he achieves union with and abode in the same world as the Uktha.

V-xiii-2: (One should meditate upon the vital force as) the Yajus. The vital force is the Yajus, for all these beings are joined with one another if there is the vital force. All beings are joined for the eminence of him who knows as above, and he achieves union with and abode in the same world as the Yajus (vital force).
V-xiii-3: (One should meditate upon the vital force as) the Saman. The vital force is the Saman, for all these beings are united if there is the vital force. For him who knows as above all beings are united, and they succeed in bringing about his eminence, and he achieves union with abode in the same world as the Saman.
V-xiii-4: (One should meditate upon the vital force as) the Ksatra. The vital force is the Ksatra, for it is indeed the Ksatra. The vital force protects the body from wounds. He who knows as above attains this Ksatra (vital force) that has no other protector, and achieves union with and abode in the same world as the Ksatra.

When the unified vision of one vital force (ram) rising (uktha) and resting on food (vi) is obtained then all being are joined for eminence of the knower of 'viram'. This union or joining of all beings need not be painful for the knower of 'viram', who knows only the bliss, but the many joined beings who uphold the eminence of the knower of 'viram' may perceive that knower to be a mitigator of pain.

The knower of 'viram' does nothing. Such a being is 'ramana'. He knows only the bliss.

'viram' is the highest, attained by joining of food (bliss-soma) and ram (agni-eater). And Viram means:
viramP. %{-ramati} , to stop (esp. speaking) , pause , cease , come to an end ; to give up , abandon , abstain or desist from {-rAmayati} , to cause to stop or rest , bring to an end , finish

On all needs ceasing the viram is attained. Else, how is a sage different from a christian missionary?

That is absolutely true. But why is it so hard to remove all conditioning of "Ahamkar" ?
OM

I do not know. Perhaps as Gita says that it is due to forgetfulness. Ramana says it is due to failure to enquire into one's nature.


Regards.

Om

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namast�

From Talks with Śrī Nisargadatta Mahraj - I Am That

Q: How is it that in spite of so much instruction and assistance we make no (spiritual) progress?

A: Śrī Nisargadatta Mahraj:
As long as we imagine ourselves to be separate personalities, one quite apart from another, we cannot grasp reality which is essentially impersonal. First we must know ourselves as witnesses only, dimensionless and timeless centers of observation, and then realize the immense ocean of pure awareness which is both mind and matter and beyond both.

praṇām

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namast�

From Talks with Śrī Nisargadatta Mahraj - I Am That

Q:What is austerity?

A: Śrī Nisargadatta Mahraj:
Once you have gone through an experience, not to go through it again is austerity. (That means) To eshcew ( abstain or stay away from) the unnecessary is austerity. Not to anticipate pleasure or pain austerity. Having things under control at all times is austerity.

praṇām