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Thread: Geeta's Interpretation

  1. #11
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    Re: Geeta's Interpretation

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    Dear VC,

    Please go through the semi-official response of christianity to hinduism

    Om
    Somehow I have not been clear in making my point. Let me please give one more try. This will be in the following two posts.

    Satay brought the term Adharma. He feels there are adharmic forces to get him. Let me please ask you for my better understanding.

    In nondualistic thinking as per BG, is there some thing called Adharma, an opposite of Dharma? Does BG clearly distinguish good and bad?

    Is Mahabharata all about the good going after bad and annihilate these people as Satay thinks?

    Does either Ramayana or Mahabarata end in they all then lived happily for ever after?

    If Adharma is considered bad then why good people like Bhishma, Drona and Karuna were part of the adharmic Kauravas?

    Isnt BG about one on one teaching, more personal one and according to individual needs? Does Krishna teach to community at large?

    Isnt the core message of BG about Swadharma and where does it mention supposedly the opposite word Adharma?

    Dont you think Swadharma mixed with Love will annihilate all Karmas?

    Continued...............

  2. #12
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    Re: Geeta's Interpretation

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    Dear VC,

    Please go through the semi-official response of christianity to hinduism in the following web page and suggest what our response should be?

    http://www.contenderministries.org/h...anresponse.php

    Om
    What about facing the misguided missionaries? There will a lot more web pages contending the superiority of religious Christianity over other religions. Does that make Sanatana Dharma feel threatened like Devotee thinks?
    Dont you think religious dualistic minds like in these web sites like to differentiate one over the other in their process of selling their own flavor? Even here in this forum, at times we see the argument between Shiva and Vishnu worshippers.

    The question is how do SD followers respond to the mispropoganda of Christianity?

    My answer is to be just gracious, be gentle, humble open and be compassionate. There is no need to accept JC into our hearts. One needs to have the same heart as JC.

    Geetas utmost command One certainly has the right for ones action but not for the fruit and also the let one not be attached to inaction is clear to me. Geeta is saying...... at least to me .......all the actions are to be based on the relinquishment of the fruit of the actions, essentially meaning not on any condition. Any work that is unconditional is Love. JCs commandment Love God and neighbor (including an enemy) with all your mind, body and soul? beautifully compliments the earlier Geetas commandment

    Love..............VC

  3. #13
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    Re: Geeta's Interpretation

    namaskar vc,

    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana View Post

    Satay brought the term Adharma. He feels there are adharmic forces to get him.
    Not sure what you mean by the above. Could you please explain? What forces are going to 'get' me?

    Is Mahabharata all about the good going after bad and annihilate these people as Satay thinks?
    VC, where did I say 'annihilate these people?' Please stop twisting what I said just to prove your point.
    satay

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    Re: Geeta's Interpretation

    Namaskar VC,


    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana View Post
    Does that make Sanatana Dharma feel threatened like Devotee thinks?
    Why do you feel threaten if hindus question the adharmic missionary activity in India?

    Don’t you think religious dualistic minds like in these web sites like to differentiate one over the other in their process of selling their own flavor? Even here in this forum, at times we see the argument between Shiva and Vishnu worshippers.
    Wow. You really think that the arguments about Shiva and Vishnu supermacy are worshippers 'selling their own flavour'? You have some nerve to say this on a Hindu forum.

    Please note that only christian missionaries are in the business of 'selling their own flavour'.

    The question is how do SD followers respond to the mispropoganda of Christianity?
    mis-propaganda? You mean 'propanganda' right?

    Simply, by annihilating these forces out.

    My answer is to be just gracious, be gentle, humble open and be compassionate.
    Hindus have tried this for centuries for no avail thus it is time for Hindus to take action and remove the adharmic forces i.e. missionary activities.

    There is no need to accept JC into our hearts.
    Clearly, missionaries have not accepted JC in their hearts.

    One needs to have the same heart as JC.
    I agree that christians in general and missionaries in particular need to learn this. Gandhi said the same thing 60 years ago.

    Any work that is unconditional is Love.
    Hindus have been showing this unconditional love to the missionaries for centuries. Now, it is time to act and act on the message of the Lord.

    JC‘s commandment “Love God and neighbor (including an enemy) with all your mind, body and soul’? beautifully compliments the earlier Geeta’s commandment
    JC stole the commandment from buddha and created some sort of psudeo message mixing Buddhism and Jainism. This commandment is the height of hypocrisy for christians. They should learn this commandment and Love the pagans unconditionally including their hindu and muslim neighbours and stop all their nonsensical missionary activity immediately. However, sadly the historical facts tell us a much different stories. Christians not only annihilated cultures, communities and countries but killed thousands if not milions of men, women and children from infants all the way to seniors.

    When are Christians going to follow this commandment of their own guru?

    Hindus are the only ones that Love God and neighbour (as you put it).

    Please read history.

    Love..............VC
    Love.
    satay

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    Re: Geeta's Interpretation

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~

    Namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana View Post
    Geeta’s utmost command “One certainly has the right for one’s action but not for the fruit and also the let one not be attached to inaction” is clear to me. Geeta is saying...... at least to me .......all the actions are to be based on the relinquishment of the fruit of the actions, essentially meaning not on any condition. Any work that is unconditional is Love.
    We have talked of this many times:

    Kṛṣṇa says the following in the Bhāgavad gītā (chapter 2, 47th śloka)
    karmai evādhikāras te
    mā phalesu kadācana
    mā karma-phala-hetur bhūr
    mā te sago'stv akarmai
    This says, you certainly (eva) have ādhikāra¹ (claim , right , privilege, control) of your (te or ti) karmai¹ (of your actions) , but never or not (mā) of its fruits (phalesu) .

    Just so there is no confusion - 'but never or not (mā) of its fruits (phalesu)' clearly points that the individual cannot control the outcome. You do not have a choice on the level of success or failure that may result from that action that is initiated.

    The remaining words tell us say in general live not for the fruits of action, nor attach yourself to inaction.
    • It is not by inaction one achieves succes in life;
    • Live not for the fruits - clearly says, do not be possessed only for the results - this makes for weaker actions and therefore a weaker result (phalesu).
    praṇām


    words
    • ādhikāra अधिकार authority, rule , administration , jurisdiction , claim , right privilege , ownership
    • mā मा- nor, not , neither
    • te for iti इति- as you know ( this is my view only and not taken from any author).
    • karmaṇi कर्मणि- connected with or being in the action
    • phala फल- fruit, benefit, consequence , effect , result , gain or loss , reward or punishment , advantage or disadvantage.
    • saṃcita संचित(some write this saṇcita) - piled together , heaped up , gathered , collected , accumulated ; In this application, it meams the sum total of all past actions ; also note the following word: saṃcit संचित्to agree together , be unanimous
    Last edited by yajvan; 12 May 2009 at 03:36 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #16
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    Re: Geeta's Interpretation

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    Namaskar VC,

    Love.
    Satay: In this thread I am not trying to defend missionary activities. You are right, historically these people have done lots of damage, and I am not disputing that fact. You do not like it and I do not like it. Let us move on.


    In response to their activities you brought the words Adharma and annihilation and I am trying to look through the lens of BG to understand these terms. Your said it again Now, it is time to act and act on the message of the Lord Where is this message written?

    I posted several questions in the post #11.

    It is not that "I" know the answers but I welcome your understandings and perspectives.

    Love .......alwaysVC

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    Re: Geeta's Interpretation

    Namaste VC,

    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana View Post
    It is not that "I" know the answers but I welcome your understandings and perspectives.

    Love .......always……VC


    Every chapter of Gita is about the Lord telling Arjuna to perform his duty. What is Arjuna’s duty? Some chapters are spent on explaining that. He is a kasatriya. He has forgotten his duty. He doesn’t want to kill and slaughter his guru, his cousins, his friends, his grandfather and other relatives for material gains. Yet, is it all for the ‘material gains’?

    For me, there is a central theme in Gita. The theme is of eternal fight between dharma and ‘adharma’. At stake are dharma and satya. Protection of dharma and satya are kasatriya’s duty. Stopping the adharmic forces from gaining victory over dharma is the purpose of the Mahabharata war. This is why in each chapter the Lord asks Arjuna to pick up his weapons and fight adharma.

    You ask about Bhisma and others. Yes, they were great yet they chose to stand on the side of adharma thus their annihilation.

    Like Arjuna, today’s hindu is lamenting and forgotten his duty. We are all too comfortable citing mindless slogans of non-violence when adharmic forces attack and destroy cultures, our temples and our civilization all in the name of secularism. Supporting adharmic forces is cowardice.

    Sri Aurobindo sums up the problem in ‘Essays on the Gita’:

    [We will use only soul force and never destroy by war or any even defensive employment of physical violence. Good, though until soul force is effective, the Asuric force in men and nations tramples down, breaks, slaughters, burns, pollutes, as we see it doing today, but then at its ease and unhindered, and you have perhaps caused as much destruction of life by your abstinence as others by resort to violence.]

    Having said all this, I have no intention for you or any other member here to actually agree with my understanding of Lord’s message. Understanding of scripture is dependent on our karma and our inherent vasnas.

    And the Lord said himself 18:67
    idam te natapaskaya
    nabhaktaya kadacana
    na casusrusave vacyam
    na ca mam yo 'bhyasuyati
    satay

  8. #18
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    Re: Geeta's Interpretation

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~

    Namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    The remaining words tell us say in general live not for the fruits of action, nor attach yourself to inaction.
    • It is not by inaction one achieves success in life;
    • Live not for the fruits - clearly says, do not be possessed only for the results - this makes for weaker actions and therefore a weaker result (phalesu).
    Can this be said another way? The teaching is that of non-anticipation. Don't be so possessed by the anticipated fruit.

    There is a deeper meaning to this says Mahaṛṣi Mahesh Yogī - If a man is held by the fruit of action ( the end result) then his sole concern is centered on the horizontal plane of life. Seeing nothing higher then the action and its fruit, he loses sight of the Divine, which pervades every action and is the almighty power at its basis leading to ultimate fulfillment. He thus looses direct contact with the vertical plane of life, on which the process of evolution is based.

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #19
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    Re: Geeta's Interpretation

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    Namaste VC,



    For me, there is a central theme in Gita. The theme is of eternal fight between dharma and ‘adharma’. At stake are dharma and satya. Protection of dharma and satya are kasatriya’s duty. Stopping the adharmic forces from gaining victory over dharma is the purpose of the Mahabharata war. This is why in each chapter the Lord asks Arjuna to pick up his weapons and fight adharma.

    You ask about Bhisma and others. Yes, they were great yet they chose to stand on the side of adharma thus their annihilation.
    Satay: Thank you for explaining your understanding.

    I still struggle understanding the purpose of MB.

    I understand Kshatriya's duty is to fight. What is the message for other 3 varnas ? Also Krishna does not guarantee Arjuna success in stopping the "Adharmic" force. Why did the great people like Bhishma and Drona choose so called "Adharmic forces". Even Drutarashtra knows his sons are doing bad things but he does not want to correct them. These points make me think the purpose of MB/ Geeta is much more than just good going against the bad.

    Thanks again,

    Love ............VC
    Last edited by vcindiana; 12 May 2009 at 10:41 PM.

  10. #20
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    Re: Geeta's Interpretation

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~

    Kṛṣṇa says the following in the Bhāgavad gītā (chapter 2, 47th śloka)
    karmai evādhikāras te
    mā phalesu kadācana
    mā karma-phala-hetur bhūr
    mā te sago'stv akarmai
    This says, you certainly (eva) have ādhikāra (claim , right , privilege, control) of your (te or ti) karmai (of your actions) , but never or not (mā) of its fruits (phalesu) .

    Dear Yajavan: Thank you for your post.


    If you do not mind I have several questions to any of you:


    1. Is it OK if I want to put the entire Geetas message in one sentence (commandment) this is it... Ch 2 verse 47. For me it is the most powerful statement ever made. I guess all the chapters in BG is some how based on this single verse.


    2. It starts off with the words evādhikāras, not just right, it is certain. Does it mean we have full freedom/ authority in our actions? Word karmani is not qualified either here; this could be good or bad. It is not a moral code, no shall not things. If BG insisted only on good, it would have made that clear. Do I take it that because good and bad are grey and relatives not absolute? In full freedom Geeta puts me in the drivers seat. I have no string attached? Geeta does not want me to be robot?


    3. Karmani or actions or the works are to be done with no attachment to the fruit of the actions. Reward is not guaranteed. Why not? Karma principle says I reap what I sow. I do all the right things, but I cannot expect a trophy? Forget about even thinking Moksha? So what is the incentive then?


    4. Karmani evādhikāras Te mā phalesu kadācana How about if I put these into one, I need to do actions based on the relinquishment of fruit of action, actions that are not bound, that are not attached, that are not controlled, and that are free of any conditions. Dont you think what Geeta is saying that these are essentially sacrificial which costs my time, energy and even money?


    5. Can you please explain whether Geeta distinguishes just Dharma vs. Swadharma? My take is it is all about Swdharma, a very personal Dharma that is emphasized in BG. Karmani or actions are the outer expressions of Swadharma ??.


    Let me stop here, Love.VC

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