That state before Samadhi

[atanu]

My question would be this: when one is approaching Samadhi (or losing one's ignorance I should say), is one still conscious of oneself? It would seem almost oxymoronic if that was the case because the whole underlying theme of the Vedas is that you don't exist, only the Atman does!

Namaskar.

Namaskar TTA,

Thank you for your valuable explanation.

Atman is Sat-Chit-Ananda. There cannot be a separate existence. That is very dissapointing for many. Nirbija/Nirvikalpa takes away the individuality but depending on samskaras, the individual may come back.

Also, there are a few levels, as explained above: with or without object; with or without self consciousness etc.. The object of meditation, to start with is important. As Shri Krishna says: What one meditates upon during one's last moments that one becomes.

I think, all these depend on what Ishwara has planned for each one, depending on karma. He is the one who is Eko and also seated in a particular individuality and He knows what He wants to be next. Though Ego comes to know vaguely as to what motivation is rising and thinks : I wish to become so and so.

It does not know where from a particular motivation comes.

Om

[atanu]

Samadhi are many but the one wherefrom yogi does not return is the ultimate.

Past and future are in the here and now: (4.12). This is stage after Pralaya, when the hard disk has been cleaned and there is no one else, only the Eko Purusha. From Him evolves future and past. This is Omniscience, since all happens from the moment that the EKO is.

But when there is no desire at all, not even for omniscience, then comes: the virtues of Rain Cloud and Gunas Resolve into their source (4.34) -the Atman (though the Yoga Sutras stop at dissolution of Gunas).

Before these two steps, I think, there are unlimited possibilties of gunas combining and pulling down yogi with bribe of siddhis, who may, retaining individuality, fly or know the future or animate other bodies etc. etc. All these are also possible in sankalpa free way after resolution of gunas into source that too without taint.

Om

[atanu]

Samadhi are many but the one wherefrom yogi does not return is the ultimate.

Past and future are in the here and now: (4.12). This is stage after Pralaya, when the hard disk has been cleaned and there is no one else, only the Eko Purusha. From Him evolves future and past. This is Omniscience, since all happens from the moment that the EKO is.

But when there is no desire at all, not even for omniscience, then comes: the virtues of Rain Cloud and Gunas Resolve into their source (4.34) -the Atman (though the Yoga Sutras stop at dissolution of Gunas).

Before these two steps, I think, there are unlimited possibilties of gunas combining and pulling down yogi with bribe of siddhis, who may, retaining individuality, fly or know the future or animate other bodies etc. etc. All these are also possible in sankalpa free way after resolution of gunas into source that too without taint.

Om

After attaining dissolution of gunas, a yogi (a jnani) may choose to use only the sattwa guna and remain immortal, all pervasive. That is what Shri Ramana teaches and saidevo ji has indicated.

Brahman-Atman is that wherefrom the mind and words return. This has two fold meaning. In Atman (Turya), the mind and words do not operate. On the other hand, yogi may get his mind and words washed in the pure Turya again and again -- to be returned to the existential world for good of all. That is how shruti, gurus, and wisdom reign in the world.

Om Namah Shivaya

[sunyatisunya]

Perhaps someone has experienced this and knows the territory better than I do -

During my meditation I often reach a state where my awareness is internalized and my senses do not function in the same way. For example, my eyes become closed and will not open unless I move to the state where those things occur. It feels like being situated "inside" the body, internalized.

While I am in this state, sometimes I feel a strong PULL around my throat pit area. It is the feeling one imagines at death when one is no longer able to breath and feels that "this is the end of my life as a body". It could also be described as similar to opening the drain in a sink and watching the water suddenly pour down it.

Each time this happens it feels as if that pull is the pull into an unconscious dream state. When the pull is felt, a host of mind impressions are there, as if I will fall into the dream state. I am not so sure though because it's really a rather intense, frightening feeling. Other times I slip into a dream state imperceptible and only regain fuller awareness later. I am wondering whether this pull is the change in states - neither wakefulness nor dream nor deep sleep but... turiya? samadhi?

I will tell you how to get there - with your meditation technique, you have to become established in your own subjective consciousness to the point where that persists more than the state of thinking and feeling does. Around this time, you should feel "inside" your body, the body having become totally motionless and heavy, and then the "pull" (at least for me) comes automatically after anywhere from a few minutes onward.

[ConnieD]

I think the state just before samadhi involves humility and trust.

I am thinking, astral-travel uses what psychologists call the anima or the animus.

edit: However, it may only be "attention and concentration".

Samadhi however, is probably about the higher chakras. It would seem so.

In 1970 I was dreaming, repeatedly, about the "death" of the amina-animus. Finally, it stayed dead in the dreams and those dreams stopped. That was then.

Then, years later, after so many comments about the development of my "heart charka" (I was in California and people speak of such things there) I learned to more consciously start meditating. The kundalini-experience involved all the chakras, if not an illusion, so I confess I don't know if the so-called lower chakras are not "in play" in meditation-samadhi.

Before that time, I was "spontaneously" meditating: it started when I was about 4 and 1/2 years old. I saw Richard Hittleman's Yoga for Health tv show. He had a "special" about yoga asanas. In the kshetra asana, I "spontaneously" meditated.

Nowadays, I think what I have called "meditation" all these years may be what people call samadhi.

I have no awareness of time: I "meditate" for hours and hours.

I had to actually "learn" to quickly go IN and quickly go OUT of "meditation" because of an assault while meditating, my "teacher" said. He taught me how to be aware of going IN and going OUT of "meditation" and to learn to do it quickly.

I am mentioning these things, and asking these questions, because there are so many varying different "claims" about the spiritual life. I suspect samadhi is the "meditation" where I have no awareness whatsoever of time passing.

I do that so much, I was told I have a "contemplative vocation" but I am not a catholic.

I like the "meditation" but I think what people call "karm yog" may be my present duty, I guess.

I am trying to find out more, from vedic astrology if possible.

[TatTvamAsi]

For all this talk of meditation and samAdhI, you have mentioned "I" 25 times in your post! What kind of 'meditation' are you doing? Just curious.

The bottom line is, if you keep persisting that "I need to become enlightened. I need to attain samAdhI. I have experienced this" etc., the path to losing the veil of Maya is that much more difficult. For this, I will allude to the genius that was Herman Hesse's book Siddhartha! Do not ever lose track of that which you are trying lose/attain, for 'enlightenment' is attained solely through anugraha (grace of GOD)!

Aum Shanti Shanti Shantihi.

Namaskar.

I think the state just before samadhi involves humility and trust.

I am thinking, astral-travel uses what psychologists call the anima or the animus.

edit: However, it may only be "attention and concentration".

Samadhi however, is probably about the higher chakras. It would seem so.

In 1970 I was dreaming, repeatedly, about the "death" of the amina-animus. Finally, it stayed dead in the dreams and those dreams stopped. That was then.

Then, years later, after so many comments about the development of my "heart charka" (I was in California and people speak of such things there) I learned to more consciously start meditating. The kundalini-experience involved all the chakras, if not an illusion, so I confess I don't know if the so-called lower chakras are not "in play" in meditation-samadhi.

Before that time, I was "spontaneously" meditating: it started when I was about 4 and 1/2 years old. I saw Richard Hittleman's Yoga for Health tv show. He had a "special" about yoga asanas. In the kshetra asana, I "spontaneously" meditated.

Nowadays, I think what I have called "meditation" all these years may be what people call samadhi.

I have no awareness of time: I "meditate" for hours and hours.

I had to actually "learn" to quickly go IN and quickly go OUT of "meditation" because of an assault while meditating, my "teacher" said. He taught me how to be aware of going IN and going OUT of "meditation" and to learn to do it quickly.

I am mentioning these things, and asking these questions, because there are so many varying different "claims" about the spiritual life. I suspect samadhi is the "meditation" where I have no awareness whatsoever of time passing.

I do that so much, I was told I have a "contemplative vocation" but I am not a catholic.

I like the "meditation" but I think what people call "karm yog" may be my present duty, I guess.

I am trying to find out more, from vedic astrology if possible.

[TatTvamAsi]

Namaste Atanu,

Thank you for your explanation.

I have more questions perhaps you can give your advice on.

When one is a jnani, assuming all samskaras have been dissolved, can one 'take birth' in a body at one's will? How will this, or should I say can this happen if there is no individuality in the perspective of the jnani?

The other thing that really 'bothers' me (I use that word lightly) is what Ramana Maharishi said about "you being the doer". He says that as long as we are in the state of ignorance (avidya), we believe we are the doers/enjoyers. However, when one becomes enlightened, it is apparently clear that one is not the doer! So basically what that means is that NOBODY ever acts of his own volition! It is ALL pre-determined? This is so intriguing to me because this is closely linked with theoretical research in modern physics (Quantum Physics exactly speaking) about indeterminate states (of particles) and pre-determination!!

What are your thoughts on this? It is almost scary in a way because we are so caught up in thisdream that we call 'reality' that the thought of being mere puppets strikes at the heart of everything we define ourselves with; ultimately being EGO!

Namaskar.

Namaskar TTA,

Thank you for your valuable explanation.

Atman is Sat-Chit-Ananda. There cannot be a separate existence. That is very dissapointing for many. Nirbija/Nirvikalpa takes away the individuality but depending on samskaras, the individual may come back.

Also, there are a few levels, as explained above: with or without object; with or without self consciousness etc.. The object of meditation, to start with is important. As Shri Krishna says: What one meditates upon during one's last moments that one becomes.

I think, all these depend on what Ishwara has planned for each one, depending on karma. He is the one who is Eko and also seated in a particular individuality and He knows what He wants to be next. Though Ego comes to know vaguely as to what motivation is rising and thinks : I wish to become so and so.

It does not know where from a particular motivation comes.

Om

[ConnieD]

I am 62 years old this year. I haven't the slightest interest in impressing anyone.

My first statement:

I think the state just before samadhi involves humility and trust.

I am writing from experience, because I am being clobbered over in a different forum with a dogmatic rant from members of ISKON and I am looking for practical responses to where I am at, not from only reading a book.

I don't know how to dialogue about what I feel the need-to-know.

But at least I am making the effort.

I "posted" right here because there is already so much here in this thread and the thread looks so promising.. for practical and on the point help in matching book-learning to actual experience.

For example: If I am experiencing samadhi, I understand turya burns up samskaras, and, as per one posting here by atanu, I could be facing choices.

I reject siddhis. I have experienced one or more anyway.

I am actually fearful of jnani immortality.

I am experiencing gunas.

This question arises: If, by the end of my life, I am up to mahasamadhi (if mahasamadhi is dying during samadhi) is that moksha?

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namaste


Men may come and men may go By 'I' (aham अहम्) go on forever�.

praṇām

[dera2]

Perhaps someone has experienced this and knows the territory better than I do -

During my meditation I often reach a state where my awareness is internalized and my senses do not function in the same way. For example, my eyes become closed and will not open unless I move to the state where those things occur. It feels like being situated "inside" the body, internalized.

While I am in this state, sometimes I feel a strong PULL around my throat pit area. It is the feeling one imagines at death when one is no longer able to breath and feels that "this is the end of my life as a body". It could also be described as similar to opening the drain in a sink and watching the water suddenly pour down it.

Each time this happens it feels as if that pull is the pull into an unconscious dream state. When the pull is felt, a host of mind impressions are there, as if I will fall into the dream state. I am not so sure though because it's really a rather intense, frightening feeling. Other times I slip into a dream state imperceptible and only regain fuller awareness later. I am wondering whether this pull is the change in states - neither wakefulness nor dream nor deep sleep but... turiya? samadhi?

I will tell you how to get there - with your meditation technique, you have to become established in your own subjective consciousness to the point where that persists more than the state of thinking and feeling does. Around this time, you should feel "inside" your body, the body having become totally motionless and heavy, and then the "pull" (at least for me) comes automatically after anywhere from a few minutes onward.

Pranam sunya,

I have no experience of meditation and the level you have attained. But I have been told that when meditation is attended with kumbhaka (stage representing the retention of breath during pranayama), it is proper. Often, however, due to fear and struggle of jiva, the stage becemes the barrier. Mind rises with breath again.

Only what i have heard.