ātmānātma vivekaḥ: Self and not-Self

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namasté

There is a general consensus that one's spiritual growth comes through śruti¹ & smṛ́ti¹, yukti (reasoning), and anubhava (direct experience). Note that guidance from muni-s and guru-s fall under śruti as we 'hear' them and the wisdom they offer.

I thought this 164th śloka Ādi Śaṅkara-ji offers in his Vivekacūḍāmaṇi was worth the post:
So long as the vidvas (learned or intelligent i.e. scholarly) does not give up his/her (erroneous) identification with the body, sense organs and so on, which are not real, there can be no talk of his/her liberation (vimukti&#185 even if he is supremely proficient in vedānta philosophy.

We find this lesson offered in the Chāndogya Upaniṣad, where Sanatkumāra is instructing Nārada. Nārada is a knower of all the veda-s, ithihasas, purāṇa-s, etc. but is honest to Sanatkumāra and himself by saying I am a word knower or mantra-vit, yet not the knower of the Self (ātma-vit).

Sanatkumāra says whatever you have learned so far is merely nāma ( name). He finds value in this knowing, and then takes Nārada even further. That is the wisdom of the experienced and qualified teacher ( guru) to take one from where they are at and continue to unfold the fullness of Being within that person.

as I see it:

• the mantra for the stuck (sañjayati) and not knowing there is more is deho'ham - I am the body.
• for those that wish to get unstuck the mantra is so'ham - I am He
• for those that are unstuck¹ (asasañjat) liberated, they experience the mantra ahaṃ - 'I'

praṇām

words

• śruti श्रुति - hearing , listening; that which is heard or perceived with the ear , sound ; sacred knowledge orally transmitted by the Brahmans from generation to generation. śruti is also sacred eternal sounds or words as eternally heard by certain holy sages i.e. the ṛṣi-s
• smṛ́ti स्मृति - that which is remembered and handed down in writing by human authors; it is properly only applied to the mantra and brāhmaṇa portion of the vedas , although afterwards extended to the upaniṣads and other Vedic works.
• yukti युक्ति -reasoning , argument , proof , influence , induction , deduction from circumstances ; This word also means union , junction , connection , combination.
• anubhava अनुभव - perception , apprehension, understanding ; impression on the mind not derived from memory i.e. experience , knowledge derived from personal observation or experiment
• vimukti विमुक्ति - release , deliverance , liberation ; release from the bonds of existence , final emancipation
• ahaṁ or aham अहम् 'I'
• 'Unstuck' is being established in one's own Self (svātma-niṣṭhayā).

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namast�

The 149th śloka from Ādi Śaṅkara-ji offered in his Vivekacūḍāmaṇi says the following:

Not by missiles nor weapons nor wind nor fire nor even millions of perscribed actions (ca karma-koṭibhiḥ) can this bondage be destroyed; by nothing except the great, sharp, beautiful sword of wisdom (vij�āna�) which comes from discrimination (viveka�) given by the grace (prasāda�) of the Supreme .

Note it is the prasāda , grace that is pointed out here...yet this prasāda also means the clearness, brightness or purity of vision that is also inferred in the word prasāda. This is connected to the question I have: The key question is what discrimination (viveka) is needed?

praṇām

words

• vij�āna विज्ञान the act of distinguishing or discerning , understanding , comprehending , recognizing , intelligence , knowledge
• viveka विवेक- discrimination, distinction
• prasāda प्रसाद- graciousness , kindness , kind behaviour , favour , aid , yet this word also means clearness, brightness, purity

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namasté

The key question is what discrimination (viveka) is needed?

Discrimination, or the ability to separate the Self from the non-Self. It is the seperation that occurs when a person experiences
the SELF. It (Self) is not an object of inspection say the wise because the 'inspector' is the SELF. It is the unsticking (asaṃga&#185 the SELF from all the senses, so the SELF is experienced on its own. Then one sees the difference, the comparison the distinction (viveka) of silence from activity. Silence (stillness) of the Self , from that activity of the non-Self. How does this come about? Various upāya-s¹ (techniques) are available.

We hear of neti neti ! not this, not this. It is saying what you 'see' is the not-SELF. Neti comes from the combination (sandhi&#185 of na + iti ; na = not + iti = 'thus', ~this~; iti refers to something that has been said or thought. Some say ' not this' and others may say ' not so'.

What is key here is what one views from the senses cannot be the SELF as it is localized, changes and therefore (sooner or later) decays or is destoyed. The SELF is not this (neti).

Hence this is the viveka ( discrimination) that is being suggested, from the last post ( number 12) i.e. ātmānātma-vivekaḥ - the distinction between the Self and the non-Self.

Svāmī Prabhupāda - when one's heart is cleared of all nonsense, then one can understand what God is.
This is the condition of being established in the SELF - one is cleared of all the nonsense, that of mūḍha-buddhi (bewildered , perplexed or confused intellect) of who one is.

praṇām


words

• asaṃga = a + saṃga = a or not + saṃga 'coming together' ( also written saṅga that is rooted in sañj to be attached or fastened , adhere , cling , stick )
• sandhi - are specific rules offered by the grammarian Pāṇini that of lopa (deletion), vikāra (modification) and āgama (addition);
  • Hence na + iti becomes neti based upon Pāṇini's ādenga guṇaḥ rule a+i is replaced with 'e' ending with neti.
    nīti नीति - 'means relation to, dependence on' which is interesting (to me); One is saying I am not (neti) dependent (nīti) on what I see.
• upāya उपाय - that by which one reaches one's aim ; a method, technique, approach

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namasté

I wrote on another post:

Establishment of the SELF is not a selected action that one chooses the same way one may choose a state of mind i.e. ' I will remain positive, I will not get angry, I will act like ___________ ( fill in the blank)'. Once one is 'possessed of the SELF', or ātma sākṣātkāra¹ there is no time it is lost , misplaced, or overshadowed by any human experience.

Well how does this occur? By one's sādhanā. And what does this do? It seperates the SELF from the non-SELF. Ādi Śaṅkara-ji says it this way: That person is liberated who seperates the SELF ( which is unattached, actionless) from all perceived sense objects as one seperates the tender core of the munja grass ( a type of grass) from its covering, and who then remains firmly established (possessed) in the SELF.

The notion of seperating the SELF from the non-SELF, what is that all about? Let me see if I can give some hint of what this means.
This world that is all around us, that comes in through our senses ( eyes, ears, mouth, even thoughts) is the world of the named.
This named world is vācya वाच्य - to be spoken or said or told or announced or communicated or stated or named or predicated or enumerated or spoken of.
Now the subjective world are the names vācaka वाचकspeaking , saying , telling anything. When this two worlds are united - the objective outer world and the subjective inner world, then there is this cohesion , this binding between the two. This is a binding of the pure subjective Self with the objective non-SELF.

This then brings light the value of post 13 above.


praṇām

1. ātma आत्म - is ātman, ones essence, core Being + sākṣātkāra साक्षात्कार - realization; evident or intuitive perception

[rkpande]

Shri Yajvan ji,

Its been a very illuminating series of posts. thank you.

My question is that as per Shri Sankara, jnana yoga is the best form of yoga.

If one comes to the state of discriminating Atman from non-atman, does one become Jeevan Mukta.

pranam

rk

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namast� rkpande,

Shri Yajvan ji,
Its been a very illuminating series of posts. thank you.
My question is that as per Shri Sankara, jnana yoga is the best form of yoga.If one comes to the state of discriminating Atman from non-atman, does one become Jeevan Mukta. pranam rk

Yes, this is the offering Ādi Śaṅkara gives in the of Vivekacūḍāmaṇi.
We can talk more about this. This is the unsticking I refer to in the posts above.

Also His grace is still part of the program i.e. the 149th śloka from Ādi Śaṅkara-ji offered in his Vivekacūḍāmaṇi says the following:

Not by missiles nor weapons nor wind nor fire nor even millions of perscribed actions (ca karma-koṭibhiḥ) can this bondage be destroyed; by nothing except the great, sharp, beautiful sword of wisdom (vij�āna�) which comes from discrimination (viveka�) given by the grace (prasāda�) of the Supreme .

praṇām

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namasté

I wrote,

It is said (in kaśmir śaivism) This Supreme independent (svātantrya) state of God Consciousness (caitanya) is the form.
But the form of what? Here is the wisdom offered and what I hoped to add to the conversation in my previous post. It is the 'form' of everything.
This implies that solid ( body) or spiritual ( non-body) , material or non-material however subtle, has this form. It is the essence of everything, and this is the Supreme, Brahman.

Now where does this notion come from ( yajvan , are you making this stuff up) ?
If we look to the śiva sūtras, a principle āgama of kaśmir śaivism, the very first sūtra says caitanyamātmā. That is it, that is how brief this sutra is, yet it contains the knowledge of what this whole creation ( movable or non-movable, visible or invisable) is.

We can take caitanyamātmā and look at it this way caitanyam + ātmā.
caitanyam चैतन्य - is from cétana consciousness and this caitanyam is Universal Being or Spirit, which it's natre is pure awareness, pure consciounsess.
And ātmā or ātma आत्म is ātman आत्मन् - is essence , nature , character. It is also defined as whole body considered as one and opposed to the separate members of the body.

Just this alone defines Universal Being is the essence. Yet to the wise and the commenter/translator Kṣemarāja¹ of the śiva sūtras vimarśinī he says that ātmā also means 'form'. I can see this. As just mentioned ātman is also defined as whole body considered as one and opposed to the separate members of the body, hence a ~form~. This then connects the intial post saying
This Supreme independent (svātantrya) state of God Consciousness (caitanya) is the form.

praṇām
words and references

• āgama आगम- a traditional doctrine or precept , collection of such doctrines , sacred work ; discussions of śiva and śakti
• Kṣemarāja was the cela (student, disciple) of Abhinavagupta - more on this lineage see http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3150&highlight=sv%26%23257%3Bm%26%23299%3B
• fyi only - ātmanā आत्मना- means of ātman