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Thread: Jnana Marg

  1. #11
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    Re: Jnana Marg

    Namaste jpamala,

    I would like to offer some corrections if you don't mind :

    Quote Originally Posted by jopmala View Post
    4) To Jnanities, there are only miseries here in dream/projected jagat due to karma.( I think karma is not real in this apparent jagat I mean , can karma performed in dream bear any fruit ?)
    "The world is all Miseries only" as compared to bliss gained on Self-realisation. Karma is within MAyA and therefore, the Karmaphala (fruits of Karma) is also within MAyA. A tree of Mango in dream bears fruits of dream mangoes in dream and not outside the dream world.

    5) There is no place of any kind of surrendering or kripa in jnan marg but in bhakti marg one has to surrender to his bhagavan to enjoy bhagavad kripa. Since “I am brahma” I need not surrender to any.
    This statement is absolutely wrong. It shows only ignorance of Jnana MArga.

    Jiva itself is brahma is advaita jnan which is vehemently opposed in Gita.
    Not exactly. Nowhere Bhagwad Gita says that "Aham BrahmAsmi" is wrong assertion.

    (3) jnan marg is a route which leads to no destination. A race Without destination. Only faith( bhakti) can take you to Krishna and argument/reason ( jnan) takes you far away .
    These statements are completely false and have been made without any basis. How can you say this when you are not a follower of Jnana MArga. BTW, the main aspect of JnAna Marga is not arguments but actual Realisation. It involves a path of Yama, Niyama and meditation. The seeker seeks the blessings of God and Guru all the time while treading this path. The destination of Jnana Marga is Self-realisation where the JIva realises that He alone is all pervading non-dual Brahman and merges in Brahman as water merges in water.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  2. #12
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    Re: Jnana Marg

    Namaste Devotee
    First of all, I have to admit that though both of us stand on opposite poles still I enjoy interacting with you.
    I don’t mind as you have every right to correct me if anything wrong said by me. Here Whatever I explained, it is on the basis of Gita.
    In your view karma and karmaphal are within Maya that means they are also projected by maya. I understand your point because if you admit the reality of karma you have to admit reality of jagat also which you can’t. Now if you don’t mind I shall give some more points .
    If ‘The world is all miseries only’ how the creator of the world is in ‘Anand’ since he is sad-chid-anand as per our scriptures. Don’t forget brahma is madhu ( honey) rasa, anand, dear and param premaspada. Brahma injects all these in the world created by him. Hence we feel happy when we see beauty eat good food enjoy one’s love . These all comes from brahma . Bhagavan or brahma is sad-chid-ananda which corresponds to three aspect of powers of bhagavan i.e. sandhini (source of creative life) sambit (source of knowledge) and hladini (source of delight) which again corresponds to karma jnan and prem or bhakti. Sandhini is that power of bhagavan which encourages karma . So it is bhagavan itself by whom the jive is inspired to act. Gita also supports this view.
    15 of chp III says that karma arises from the Vedas and Vedas from Brahma.
    22-24 of same chp sri bhagavan says “ there are no requisite karma for me even then I engage in activities because if at any time I ceased from engaging in karma , people will fillow my path and worlds would all be ruined.”
    4 and 5 of chp III ‘ No one at any time even for a moment remain without performing karma’.
    8 of chp III says ‘ niyata kuru karma’
    8 of chp VII bhagavan says ‘I am the virility in men’ (paurusang nrishu)
    2 of chp V says that of the two of karma yoga and sannyas yoga, karma yoga is supirior
    6 of chp V says that by renunciation alone (without karmayog) one attains only suffereing.
    Therefore Not Karma but Attachment is the cause of bondage.

    Which sloka of bhagavad gita says ‘ aham brahmasmi’ is correct assertion ?
    7 of chp XV says jiva is my part – what does it mean?
    How can you say “Bhakti Marg finally leads to Jnana only but Bhakti Marg without having even theoretical understanding of Jnana may lead to superstitious beliefs & endless sufferings?” Being not a bhakti margi ? But then I shall explain why I can. We all know very well that nirgun aspect of brahma is undescribable unthinkable undefinable and above all beyond all reach then how will one fix his target ? Most important of all, In Gita , 5 of chp XII says that it is more troublesome for those whose minds are attached to unmanifested. They attain their goal after great suffering because worshiping of nirakar nirgun avyakta brahma is not easy for embodied being. In next sloka he says that those who fix their mind on ‘ME’ and renounce all their action unto ‘ME’ ( of course here ‘ME’ means sagun sakar bhagavan sri Krishna) they are yuktatama. The question is why one should follow that marg which bhagavan himself is declaring as difficult. Is it not denying bhagavan? What extra which sagun worshiper can not have would one achieve by worshiping unthinkable nirgun brahma ? Bhagavan says both worshiper comes to me . Is it not wise to follow easier way which bhagavan himself directed in Gita ? bhakti marg is direct because here one can see bhagavan one can talk with bhagavan and one can think of bhagavan as his own subject to kripa bestowed by bhagavan.
    Bhagavan is very kind . He is so kind that he does everything for his bhakta. He takes Avatara for protecting his bhakta , does karma to save this world from ruin and teaches bhakta the easiest way to reach him. For bhakt’s convenience nirgun nirakar brahma becomes sagun sakar bhagavan so that his bhakta can reach him very easily. Therefore to me , it is sheer foolishness to worship nirgun aspect though it is one’s own business to respect or deny the assertion of bhagavan.
    It is true that water marges into water but it is also true that the rays or the part fire( sphuling) coming out of the sun or the Fire ball can not merg into their origin. The rays and part fire remain part always but they come from the whole fire ball or the sun How can part of brahma( Jiva) become all pervading ?
    How do you enjoy the grace of your guru or Iswara (who are not ultimately real) when both you and your guru/iswara stay in different state of consciousness. Is it possible to interact from third state to first state. Can in an apparent world the Iswara which is ultimately vanished be ‘all pervading’ ?
    Bhagavan is all powerful. If he wishes he can creat a real jagat or apparent /dream jagat. He can do anything at his wish. How do you insist on ‘jagat can not be real’. Are you not challenging ‘ Bhagavan’s will’ ?

    Lastly in the words of poet:
    ‘ I slept and dreamt that life was Beauty
    I woke and found that life was Duty.

  3. #13
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    Re: Jnana Marg

    Namaste Japmala,

    First of all let me make it clear why I don't want to discuss Advaita with people of Bhakti MArga. I can quote many verses from Upanishads which directly seemingly attack the common rituals which common people consider as Bhakti but that has been forbidden until one has attained some higher spiritual level. So, I opt to keep mum than to argue in such situations.
    My previous post was only aimed to correct the factual inaccuracies and misconceptions about Advaita in your post and nothing else. I would answer some of your questions that you have raised :

    a)
    Quote Originally Posted by japmala
    In your view karma and karmaphal are within Maya that means they are also projected by maya. I understand your point because if you admit the reality of karma you have to admit reality of jagat also which you can’t.
    No. You don't understand (forgive me for saying so but it is the truth). Can you tell me why does Lord Krishna say in Bhagwad Gita : "Actually all Karmas are done by the three Gunas of Nature but the Jeeva due to beinf deluded by his ahamkaar assumes that he is the actor". Lord denies that you work when it is you in the relative existence of this world that work. When you don't act, how can there be Karma and Karma-phala ? Then why do you enjoy or suffer the fruits of "your" karma which actually is not yours ? How does the Nature act without your involvement. You plan, you make strategy and you act ... and here Lord says that "You are not the actor" ! If that is so, all your Bhakti goes in vain ! As your Bhakti also i.e. singing bhajans, chanting his names, offering made to God, sacrifices etc. are "not being done by you" but these are being done by the three guNas of Prakriti. So, you actually are not a Bhakta at all !

    Can you throw light on this dilemma ?

    b)
    7 of chp XV says jiva is my part – what does it mean?
    Yes but the part is never disconnected from the whole (so, in essence there is no part). The part has wrongly assumed that it is separate from the whole due to MAyA.

    c)
    How can you say “Bhakti Marg finally leads to Jnana only but Bhakti Marg without having even theoretical understanding of Jnana may lead to superstitious beliefs & endless sufferings?” Being not a bhakti margi ? But then I shall explain why I can. We all know very well that nirgun aspect of brahma is undescribable unthinkable undefinable and above all beyond all reach then how will one fix his target ? Most important of all, In Gita , 5 of chp XII says that it is more troublesome for those whose minds are attached to unmanifested. They attain their goal after great suffering because worshiping of nirakar nirgun avyakta brahma is not easy for embodied being. In next sloka he says that those who fix their mind on ‘ME’ and renounce all their action unto ‘ME’ ( of course here ‘ME’ means sagun sakar bhagavan sri Krishna) they are yuktatama. The question is why one should follow that marg which bhagavan himself is declaring as difficult. Is it not denying bhagavan?
    Bhagvan nowhere says that Jnana Marga is not appropriate or it should be shunned because it is difficult. It is difficult for less spiritually evolved people. Why ? The minimum level of advancement on Bhakti-maarga is essentially required before you can get entry into Jnana-Marga. Why does Bhagvan say that it is difficult ? - Because of dehAbhimaan ... he explains in the next verse ... because being in gross form it is difficult to understand "the subtle unmanifest". You must have seen on this board itself ... how many members are able to successfully participate in any Jnana MArga discussion ? They start abusing the Jnana Margi in one form or the other after discussing for just a little time. There are many threads which are testimony to this.

    See, a Jnana MArgi's life is not so easy, more so, when you are not a SannyAsi. As a follower of Jnana Marga you are supposed to do these things consistently :

    a) Always think that "everything is Brahman". So, treat everyone with compassion and respect.

    b) Keep trying to connect to God through meditation and constantly thinking of Him. My formal ritual goes for nearly three hours everyday and special session on holidays for longer hours. A more dedicated Jnana MArgi may devote several hours in meditation everyday and interact very little with the world.

    c) Constantly thinking of impermanence of things in this world and lessen attachment to worldly enjoyment slowly but firmly. Negate all experiences of pains in life contemplating on the ephemeral/unreal nature of the universe. Lessen interaction with the world gradually. Make all efforts in this life (by meditation, detachment and grace of God) to eradicate the impressions of Past Karmas through attaining one-ness with God, so that possibility of next birth is avoided.

    d) Keep praying to God and Guru for spiritual advancement. A Jnana MArgi prays to God to make him free from the grip of MAyA, to attain one-ness with Him, to shower on him His grace for making him realise the Truth. He also prays to God and Guru to grant him genuine needs of life. A Jnana Margi uses the name of Lord Krishna, Shiva or Mother Goddess Kaali in the same way as a Bhakta does.

    ************
    ==> Many people wrongly think that Advaitins are actually demonic as even the thought of "Jeeva being Brahman Itself" appears demonic to them. It is also wrong to think that by doing this they are being disrespectful to God. It is not so. There is nothing dear to a Jnanai than God. He wants God alone and nothing else. "Aham BrahmAsmi" doesn't give rise to ahamkaara in a Jnaani it kills the ahamkaar. How ? "Aham BrahmAsmi" does mean that I Am Brahman but also mean that everything else too is Brahman. So, how can there be an ahamkaar ? Ahamkaar is possible only in duality ... how can ahamkaar arise in non-duality ?

    This post has become too long. I shall continue in the next ...

    OM
    Last edited by devotee; 03 December 2012 at 03:53 AM.
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  4. #14
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    Re: Jnana Marg

    Continuing from the last post ....

    You said,

    Quote Originally Posted by japmala
    Bhagavan is very kind . He is so kind that he does everything for his bhakta. He takes Avatara for protecting his bhakta , does karma to save this world from ruin and teaches bhakta the easiest way to reach him. For bhakt’s convenience nirgun nirakar brahma becomes sagun sakar bhagavan so that his bhakta can reach him very easily. Therefore to me , it is sheer foolishness to worship nirgun aspect though it is one’s own business to respect or deny the assertion of bhagavan.
    First of all, initially, Nirguna Brahman is attained not by denying Saguna Brahman but through Him and by His grace. You can't say that assertion of Bhagvan is denied by worshiping the Nirguna aspect of God. If you read chapter 4 of Bhagwad Gita, Lord Krishna tells Arjuna to learn JnAna from a JnAni by serving them and by asking questions from them. He further says that those JnAnis would explain JnAna to you and by knowing that "you will first see all beings in your own Self and then in Me".

    Please see the following verses where Lord Krishna extols Jnana Marga and also preaches how to follow this path :

    Bhagwad Gita

    Chapter 5

    In the case, however, of those whose said ignorance has been destroyed by true knowledge of Self, that wisdom shining like the sun reveals the Supreme. (16)

    Those whose mind and intellect are wholly merged in Him, who remain constantly established in identity with Him, and have finally become one with Him, their sins being wiped out by Jnana, reach the supreme goal whence there is no return. (17)

    The Jnani look with equanimity on all whether it be a Braahman endowed with learning and culture, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a pariah, too. (18)

    He who, with firm intellect and free from doubt, rejoices not on obtaining what is pleasant and does not feel perturbed on meeting with the unpleasant, that knower of Brahman lives eternally in identity with Brahman. (20)

    He whose mind remains unattached to senseobjects, derives through meditation the Sattvika joy which dwells in the mind; then that Yogi, having completely identified himself through meditation with Brahman, enjoys eternal Bliss. (21)

    Shutting out all thoughts of external enjoyments, with the gaze fixed on the space between the eye-brows, having regulated the PraNa (outgoing) and the Apana (incoming) breaths flowing within the nostrils, he who has brought his senses, mind and intellect under control, such a contemplative soul intent on liberation and free from desire, fear and anger, is ever liberated. (22)

    Footnote : In the above verses Lord Krishna teaches Jnana MArga and teaches meditational practice.

    Chapter 4


    Arjuna, sacrifice through Jnana is superior to sacrifice performed with material things. For all actions without exception culminate in Jnana, O son of Kunt∂. (33)

    Understand the true nature of that Jnana by approaching illumined soul. If you prostrate at their feet, render them service, and question them with an open and guileless heart, those wise seers of Truth will instruct you in that Jnana.(34)

    Arjuna, when you have achieved enlightenment, ignorance will delude you no more. In the light of that Jnana, you will see the entire creation first within your own Self, and then in Me. (35)

    Even if you were the most sinful of all sinners, this Jnana alone would carry you, like a raft, across all your sins. (36)

    For, as the blazing fire turns the fuel to ashes, Arjuna, even so the fire of Jnana turns all actions to ashes. (37)

    In this world there is no purifier as great as Jnana; he who is established in yoga, automatically sees the light of Truth in the Self in course of time.(38)

    Footnote : Lord Krishna Praising the path of Jnana

    Chapter 6

    Living in seclusion all by himself, the Yogi who has controlled his mind and body, and is free from desires and void of possessions, should constantly engage his mind in meditation. (10)

    Having firmly set his seat in a spot which is free from dirt and other impurities with the sacred Ku‹a grass, a deerskin and a cloth spread thereon, one upon the other, (Kusha below, deerskin in the one upon the other, (Kusha below, deerskin in the middle and cloth uppermost), neither very high nor very low.) (11)

    And occupying that seat, concentrating the mind and controlling the functions of the mind and senses, he should practise Yoga for self purification. (12)

    Holding the trunk, head and neck straight and steady, remaining firm and fixing the gaze on the tip of his nose, without looking in other directions. (13)
    Firm in the vow of complete chastity and fearless, keeping himself perfectly calm and with the mind held in restraint and fixed on Me, the vigilant Yogi should sit absorbed in Me. (14)

    Thus, constantly applying his mind to Me, the Yogi of disciplined mind attains everlasting peace, consisting of Supreme Bliss, which abides in Me. (15)
    The state in which, the Citta (mind-stuff) subdued through the practice of Yoga, becomes passive, and in which realizing God through subtle reasoning purified by meditation on Self; the soul rejoices only in Self; Nay, in which the soul experiences the eternal and super-sensuous joy which can be intuited only through the subtle and purified intellect, and wherein established the said Yogi moves not from Truth on any account; (20-21)

    He should through gradual practice, attain tranquillity; and fixing the mind on Self through reason controlled by steadfastness, he should not think of anything else. (25)

    The sinless Yogi, thus uniting himself with Self constantly, easily enjoys the eternal Bliss of oneness with Brahman. (28)

    The Yogi who is united in identity with the all pervading, infinite consciousness, whose vision everywhere is even, beholds the Self existing in all beings and all beings as assumed in the Self. (29)

    Footnote : Lord Krishna teaching meditation and emhasizing the importance of attaining one-ness with God/Self

    Chapter - 7

    Of these, the best is the JnAni, ever established in identity with Me and possessed of exclusive devotion. For, I am extremely dear to the JnAni who knows Me in reality, and he is extremely dear to Me. (17)

    Indeed, all these are noble, but the Jnani is My very self; such is My view. For such a devotee, who has his mind and intellect merged in Me, is firmly established in Me alone as the highest goal. (18)

    In the very last of all births the enlightened person worships Me by realizing that all this is Vasudeva (God). Such a great soul is very rare indeed.(19)

    Footnote : Lord Krishna praising Jnani and equating him with His own Self Also, he says that only in the last life one realises that "This all is Vasudeva/Brahman".

    I hope it will clarify a lots of misconception on Jnana Yoga if you read the above verses carefully. If you don't, you will never be out of your misconceptions about Jnana Yoga.

    OM
    Last edited by devotee; 03 December 2012 at 03:52 AM.
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  5. #15
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    Re: Jnana Marg

    Namaste devotee
    I think you know the explanation behind your so called ‘dielama’ still you want to hear from me . OK. First of all , before going into your dilemma it would be better to go through some of the slokas of the Gita related to the dilemma involving body (prakriti) , soul (purush) and karma. Yes All the work is carried out by the different modes of Nature . The fool deluded by egoism fancies himself to be self doer ( 27-III).This body is verily described as the kshetra or field ( 1-XIII) .The great elements ( earth water etc , egoism intellect ten organs mind five sense objects etc etc ) constitute the field with its limits and changes ( 5 & 6-XIII). This is my inferior (inert or insentient) Nature ( APARA PRAKRITI) and distinct from it the other sentient Purusha ( PARA PRAKRITI) in the form of life consciousness which sustains this world( 4,5-VII) . Me is the knower of the field in all bodies ( 2-XIII). All the modification are born of prakriti ( 19-XIII) . Prakriti is said to be the source of cause and effect while Purush ( soul) is the cause of experiencing pleasure and pain ( 20-XIII) . Purush , being identified with prakriti enjoys the modes born of prakriti . His attachment to them is the cause of good or evil birth( 21-XIII) . Union of purush and prakriti leads to creation. ( 26-XIII , 10-IX and 4-XIV). Three gunas sattva rajas and tamas born of prakriti bind the immutable soul in the body ( 5-XIV). Next slokas show how the gunas bind the sould.
    It can be concluded from above that the Prakriti is inert or insentient . The proximity of Purusha endows it with consciousness to act. In Gita, this inert or insentient prakrti is called APARA prakriti and the sentient purusha is called PARA prakriti of Sri Krishna. This para prakriti is individual consciousness bound up with nature. The three modes ( sattva rajas tamas) born of prakriti bind the immutable soul ( purush) in the body . Due to this proximity the qualities of purush are transmitted to prakriti and vice versa for which the inert insentient prakriti appears to be sentient and Atma being Akarta ( not doer) appears to be karta ( doer). Purusha being identified with prakriti enjoys the modes born of prakriti. His attachment to them is the cause of good or evil birth. The spirit in this body is said to be witness, sanctioner, sustainer, experiencer , controller of events . It is due to superior energy ( PARA ) that the entire material world ( APARA) functions. The cosmic manifestation has no power to act unless it is moved by the superior energy, the living entity. Therefore, everything that takes place in this material creation is due to the combination of the superior energy and inferior nature or spirit and matter. The living entity in material nature enjoys the three modes of nature and it is due to his association with the material nature only that he meets with good and evil consequences in her/her life time.
    Now coming to your dilemma :

    1) Lord denies that you work . When you don't act, how can there be Karma and Karma-phala ? Then why do you enjoy or suffer the fruits of "your" karma which actually is not yours ?
    Ans : I am quite sure you have understood what I am . If your question is directed towards me the individual , I would like to present myself before you that I am human being (jiva) having a body ( prakriti) and self ( soul,atma,purush). Till today I am under the influence of three gunas of prakriti and become attached to the actions flowing from gunas. But I am in the process of getting rid of this maya ( three gunas of prakriti for which I have forgotten my duty to please sri Krishna by doing his works for attaining his kripa ) . I always pray to sri krishna to help me to understand the distinctive spheres of gunas and actions to realize that it is gunas in the form of senses mind etc that act upon the gunas ( objects of perception) so that attachment might not be developed towards them.
    3) How does the Nature act without your involvement. You plan, you make strategy and you act ... and here Lord says that "You are not the actor" ! If that is so, all your Bhakti goes in vain !
    Ans. No . Nature can not act without my involvement because nature is inert insentient . If soul( I=purush = Atma) discards body ( prakriti) , will one’s hand rise to take something ? Since I ( atma) am there, my body mind etc (prakriti) plan make strategy and act , so Lord is correct that ‘I am not the actor’
    But my bhakti does not go in vain because now I am in the trap of gunas that is maya duratyaya but I seek refuge in sri Krishna alone and I have full faith that bhagavan will rescue me from this trap of maya.

    4) As your Bhakti also i.e. singing bhajans, chanting his names, offering made to God, sacrifices etc. are "not being done by you" but these are being done by the three guNas of Prakriti. So, you actually are not a Bhakta at all !

    Ans. Remember that ‘I’ the human being ( jiva) combination of body and soul. When soul discards body , it can not work and become a waste product. Therefore whatever karma chanting singing bhajan etc done by my body( gunas of prakriti) is possible only due to presence of soul or atma . Just like inserting the sim into the mobile phone set . Thereofore, ‘me’ Jopmala, both combination of prakriti and purush ( body and soul) shall remain bhakta until ( soul will always have a body as per slokas 6,12,13-VIII, 13,22-II.) the prem bhakti towards sri Krishna is attained. For sadhan bhajan , the soul or atma requires a body through which the bhagavat karma is to be performed . Real self is atma who thinks feels and wills. Nobody on earth considers dead body to a person. As long as consciousness exists in it, so long it is considered person. So long Jivatma is bound up with gunas of prakriti , he is ignorant and in the dark therefore, prayer in veidik mantra “ TOMOSO MA JYOTIRGOMOYA’ . This is all about myself. Now can you tell me being yourself “brahma” and nothing else , how you have got a human body and why engaged in meditation etc . How and why you have come down from Turiya to this human state and again trying to go to turiya state after a lot of suffering .
    Last edited by jopmala; 12 December 2012 at 01:55 PM.

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    Re: Jnana Marg

    Namaste japmala,

    Quote Originally Posted by jopmala View Post

    It can be concluded from above that the Prakriti is inert or insentient . The proximity of Purusha endows it with consciousness to act. In Gita, this inert or insentient prakrti is called APARA prakriti and the sentient purusha is called PARA prakriti of Sri Krishna. This para prakriti is individual consciousness bound up with nature. The three modes ( sattva rajas tamas) born of prakriti bind the immutable soul ( purush) in the body . Due to this proximity the qualities of purush are transmitted to prakriti and vice versa for which the inert insentient prakriti appears to be sentient and Atma being Akarta ( not doer) appears to be karta ( doer).


    Is Prakriti inert ? When you say above that AtmA is AkartA i.e. which doesn't act ... so, how come Prakriti being itself inert acts with another thing which itself doesn't act. (BTW, I like your explanation but I am just probing to go near the Truth). Again, if Prakriti is ineert, how does it "bind" (how can an inert bind anything) the unborn AtmA ?

    Quote Originally Posted by japmala
    Now coming to your dilemma :
    Quote Originally Posted by japmala
    1) Lord denies that you work . When you don't act, how can there be Karma and Karma-phala ? Then why do you enjoy or suffer the fruits of "your" karma which actually is not yours ?
    [B]Ans : I am quite sure you have understood what I am . If your question is directed towards me the individual , I would like to present myself before you that I am human being (jiva) having a body ( prakriti) and self ( soul,atma,purush). Till today I am under the influence of three gunas of prakriti and become attached to the actions flowing from gunas.
    Wait a little ... you said, "Actions flowing from Gunas". OK. Who is the actor here ? Lord Krishna says that it is Gunas of Prakriti. Am I right ?

    Quote Originally Posted by japmala
    3) How does the Nature act without your involvement. You plan, you make strategy and you act ... and here Lord says that "You are not the actor" ! If that is so, all your Bhakti goes in vain !
    [B]Ans. No . Nature can not act without my involvement because nature is inert insentient . If soul( I=purush = Atma) discards body ( prakriti) , will one’s hand rise to take something ? Since I ( atma) am there, my body mind etc (prakriti) plan make strategy and act , so Lord is correct that ‘I am not the actor’
    Here, you are saying something different. Lord Krishna doesn't say that your AtmA gets bound as it acts ... nowhere in BG he says that AtmA acts (yes, Bhootas do act which we are). He says that due to Ahamkaar and getting attached to those actions (taking the ownership of the actions), the Jeeva gets bound. Therefore, imho, your assertion, " Nature can not act without my involvement because nature is inert insentient" needs correction.

    The rest of answers have taken strength from this above assertion which would change once you correct the above.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Jnana Marg

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste japmala,


    Is Prakriti inert ? When you say above that AtmA is AkartA i.e. which doesn't act ... so, how come Prakriti being itself inert acts with another thing which itself doesn't act. (BTW, I like your explanation but I am just probing to go near the Truth). Again, if Prakriti is ineert, how does it "bind" (how can an inert bind anything) the unborn AtmA ?

    Wait a little ... you said, "Actions flowing from Gunas". OK. Who is the actor here ? Lord Krishna says that it is Gunas of Prakriti. Am I right ?

    Here, you are saying something different. Lord Krishna doesn't say that your AtmA gets bound as it acts ... nowhere in BG he says that AtmA acts (yes, Bhootas do act which we are). He says that due to Ahamkaar and getting attached to those actions (taking the ownership of the actions), the Jeeva gets bound. Therefore, imho, your assertion, " Nature can not act without my involvement because nature is inert insentient" needs correction.

    The rest of answers have taken strength from this above assertion which would change once you correct the above.

    OM
    Devoteeji
    I am shocked because I have not expected such a sily question from a person like you. Just focus on our body ( kshetra/perishable/apara prakriti) which itself is prakriti become unmoved when atma ( kshetrajna/purush/imperishable/para prakriti) discards it that is what we call ‘death’. As long as atma is there ( we are alive) we do whatever we like to do. But everything is done by our organs mind intellect etc which are part of prakriti . Atma which is dwelling in the body but remain as witness, sanctioner sustainer experiencer. Therefore prakriti ( body) only works due to proximity of purusha ( atma) otherwise it is inert and insentient. The atma is sentient only. Chapter II, III, VII, IX, XIII, XIV and XVIII of Gita clearly describe this thing.
    40 of XVIII says that There is no creature on earth or in heaven among the gods which is free from the influence of the three gunas of prakriti.
    5 of XIV says that three modes sattva rajas tamas born of prakriti bind the immutable soul in the body and next 4/5 slokes describe how they bind the soul.
    In 14 of V sri bhagavan clearly states that it is nature that performs action. He himself is passive and hence he has nothing to do with the agency etc of the beings. These things are attributed to him through the medium of nature. A being is thus said to be under the influence of maya, another name for prakriti.
    12 of VII says that whatever states of being there may exis, sattvika rajas or tamas- know them to be emantating from me alone> I am not in them, they are in me.
    I will request you to go through the above mentioned chapters of Gita from any publication and send me your views on the same question asked by you as to prakriti is inert insentient or not and also being akarta how atma is bound up by prakriti.If your views do not match with that of mine , I shall definitely correct my statement and I assure you that I shall never quote from Gita henceforth.

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    Re: Jnana Marg

    Namaste Japmala,

    Quote Originally Posted by jopmala View Post
    Devoteeji
    I am shocked because I have not expected such a sily question from a person like you.
    I am shocked to see that you have taken good 8 days to take the shock of silliness of my question ! Seriously, there is no harm in asking silly questions, right ? Let's focus on the questions and try to answer them rather than looking at their being silly or otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Japmala
    In your view karma and karmaphal are within Maya that means they are also projected by maya. I understand your point because if you admit the reality of karma you have to admit reality of jagat also which you can’t.
    Our discussion started with your assertion quoted above. You said that Karmas are real i.e. the actor is really perceived and therefore the karmaphalas (fruits of actions) correctly accrue to the actor. But this is negated below in your own quoted verse :

    In 14 of V sri bhagavan clearly states that it is nature that performs action. He himself is passive and hence he has nothing to do with the agency etc of the beings. These things are attributed to him through the medium of nature. A being is thus said to be under the influence of maya, another name for prakriti.
    If the above is true then your act of worshiping God is actually being done by the Prakriti and only under the influence of MAyA. You impose upon yourself mistakenly that you are the actor. Am I right ? Now, that actually means that your assumption that you perfiorm Bhakti and that you are a Bhakta is ONLY under the influence of MAyA and you are not the agency for performing the act of Bhakti.

    Even if you say that only in the presence of Purusha, the Prakriti acts … the doership cannot be transferred to Purusha / individual soul. If you beat a person in my presence, the beating of the person can never be attributed to me. I cannot be punished for your actions even if you might have beaten someone in my presence. That is why I said :

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee
    Lord denies that you work . When you don't act, how can there be Karma and Karma-phala ? Then why do you enjoy or suffer the fruits of "your" karma which actually is not yours ?
    You said :

    Quote Originally Posted by Japmala
    I will request you to go through the above mentioned chapters of Gita from any publication and send me your views on the same question asked by you as to prakriti is inert insentient or not and also being akarta how atma is bound up by prakriti.If your views do not match with that of mine , I shall definitely correct my statement and I assure you that I shall never quote from Gita henceforth.
    My dear friend, I have read Bhagwad Gita so many times and I won't hesitate to refer back again. Please rest assured, Bhagwad Gita has unending attraction for me. I am not asking questions to test your understanding but only to remove your misunderstanding that Jnana Yoga is not advocated by Bhagwad Gita or that Jnana Yoga is 180 degree opposite Bhakti Yoga. See, the Truth is One and all the paths must attain the same Reality at the end otherwise, the Truth cannot remain One and then the Truth will no longer remain Truth.
    I am trying to draw your attention towards these verse of Bhagwad Gita. The verses that you also have quoted specifically say that Prakriti is the doer and only due to Ahamkaar, the Jeeva is bound taking over the ownership of the actions. This is what Jnana Yoga says and you also accept this. Let's see this verse :

    BG 3.27 : In fact all actions are being performed by the modes of Prakati (Primordial Matter). The fool, whose mind is deluded by egoism, thinks: I am the doer.

    ==> Does this verse not proclaim that "All Actions" and that includes Bhakti too … that are performed by Prakriti and the Jeeva's thinking that he is the doer is wrong ? Therefore, even the Bhakti is performed by Prakriti. So, unless the person acts as a fool (using the word as used by God) and assumes that he is Bhakta, he actually is not a Bhakta. Right ?
    Let's see these verses too :

    BG 5.8-9 However, he, who knows the reality of things, must believe that he does nothing, even though seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, eating or drinking, walking, sleeping, breathing, speaking, answering the calls of nature, grasping, and opening or closing the eyes, holding that it is the senses alone that are moving among their objects.

    BG 13.20 Prakati is said to be responsible for bringing forth the evolutes and the instruments; while the Purusha is declared to be responsible for the experience of joys and sorrows.

    13.21 Only the Purusa in association with Prakati experiences objects of the nature of the three Gunas evolved from Prakati and it is attachment with these Gunas that is responsible for the birth of this soul in good and evil wombs.

    BG 14.19 When the discerning person sees no one as doer other than the three Gunas, and realizes Me, the supreme Spirit standing entirely beyond these Gunas, he enters into My being.


    ===> These verses proclaim without a doubt that Prakriti/the three GuNas are alone the doer and not the Jeeva. The verse 14.19 especially prohibits one from seeing any other entity except the Gunas as the actor.

    Now if that is so, then all actions i.e. my chanting the name of God, offering flowers, sacred flame/oblations etc. are all illusions as I am not the doer but the Prakriti and God advises me not see myself as the actor but ONLY the three GuNas.

    Why am I discussing these questions at all ? It is not that you have not read BG or I have not read it. What I am trying to do is that you can see the Advaitic teachings in Bhagwad Gita … so that you can see that JnAna Yoga is not opposite to what Lord Krishna taught in BG but is absolutely in line with it.

    Let's see Lord Krishna's words for JnAna Yoga :

    BG 4.24 In the practice of seeing Brahman everywhere as a form of sacrifice, Brahman is the ladle (with which oblation is poured into the fire, etc.); Brahman, again, is the oblation; Brahman is the fire, Brahman itself is the sacrificer and so Brahman itself constitutes the act of pouring the oblation into the fire. And finally Brahman is the goal to be reached by him who is absorbed in Brahman as the act of such sacrifice.

    ==> This is the state A Jnana Yogi tries to attain. All their actions are towards attaining this state. … and yet you say that Jnana Yoga is not recommended by Lord Krishna in Bhagwad Gita !

    BG 4.34 Understand the true nature of that Jnana by approaching illumined soul. If you prostrate at their feet, render them service, and question them with an open and guileless heart, those wise seers of Truth will instruct you in that Jnana.

    BG 4.35 Arjuna, when you have achieved enlightenment, ignorance will delude you no more. In the light of that Jnana, you will see the entire creation first within your own Self, and then in Me.

    BG 4.36 Even if you were the most sinful of all sinners, this Jnana alone would carry you, like a raft, across all your sins.

    BG 4.37 For, as the blazing fire turns the fuel to ashes, Arjuna, even so the fire of Knowledge turns all actions to ashes.

    BG 4.38 In this world there is no purifier as great as Jnana; he who has attained purity of heart through prolonged practice of Yoga, automatically sees the light of Truth in the self in course of time.

    You assert that Aham BrahmAsmi is not taught in Bhagwad Gita. True. However, the BG does point out the Truth echoed by that MahAvAkya that Jeeva is not different from Brahman. Let's see this verse :

    BG 13.22 The Spirit dwelling in this body, is really the same as the Supreme. He has been spoken of as the Witness, the true Guide, the Sustainer of all, the Experiencer (as the embodied soul), the Overlord and the Absolute as well.

    Is JnAna Yoga really not at all taught in Bhagwad Gita ? What do you think of the above verse ?

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  9. #19
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    Re: Jnana Marg

    Namaste devotee
    At the outset I wish you very happy new year.

    I am sorry for taking so many days to respond to you . Actually I am running short of time due to some personal problem. I hope I shall be faster in coming days.

    Our discussion started with your assertion quoted above. You said that Karmas are real i.e. the actor is really perceived and therefore the karmaphalas (fruits of actions) correctly accrue to the actor. But this is negated below in your own quoted verse

    Answer :- Though not directly I said karma is real but I just indicated your problem accepting karma as real still I accept that I believe karmas are real since I believe jagat is real and not dream. But then what you have written from i.e. in your post is not my statement. Please see my statement again. Therefore there is nothing negation at all. I still maintain what I earlier said. Prakriti is inert and insentient. The proximity of purusha endows it with consciouness to act. The three modes born of prakriti bind the soul in the body. Due to this proximity the qualities of purusha are transmitted to prakriti and vice versa for which the inert prakriti appears to be sentient and atma being akarta ( not doer) appears to be karta ( doer). Purusha being identified with prakriti enjoys the modes of prakriti. His attachment to them is cause of good or evil birth.

    If the above is true then your act of worshiping God is actually being done by the Prakriti and only under the influence of MAyA. You impose upon yourself mistakenly that you are the actor. Am I right ? Now, that actually means that your assumption that you perfiorm Bhakti and that you are a Bhakta is ONLY under the influence of MAyA and you are not the agency for performing the act of Bhakti.

    Even if you say that only in the presence of Purusha, the Prakriti acts … the doership cannot be transferred to Purusha / individual soul. If you beat a person in my presence, the beating of the person can never be attributed to me. I cannot be punished for your actions even if you might have beaten someone in my presence. That is why I said


    Answer :-I think we should have a better understanding of prakriti-purush, ksetra-ksetrajna, Apara-Para tattva of sri Krishna. See, if according to you I am not a bhakta, you should tell me from Gita what is Arjun whom sri Krishna addressed as ‘ my bhakta’ . Before knowing Gita from sri krishna , Arjun also was under maya for which he was not willing to fight but at the end he said “ . By your grace, O Acyuta, my delusion has been dispelled . I have gained knowledge about my duty ; my mind is steadfast and free from doubts. I shall do whatever you want me to do” 73 of XVIII . You should remember that sri Krishna is trying to convince Arjun to fight ( to act) against his so called relatives. In doing so sri Krishna has described the details of prakriti –purusha tattva to Arjuna only to make him know that it is not he ( purusha dwelling inside him) who acts but prakriti only acts. Here Sri Krishna is not talking separately with Arjune’ s prakriti (body) and his Atma ( purusha) Knowing very well who acts and who not , sri krishna is asking Arjuna ( combination of both body and soul) to act, to fight . At the same time you have to remember that both this prakriti and purush are para and apara prakriti of sri Krishna .Therefore I have done no mistake or imposed upon me anything wrong. I never say doer-ship is transferred to purusha from prakriti nor I said that only in the presence of purusha , prakriti acts. Your example does not fit here because between prakriti and purusha , one is insentient and inert ( prakriti) and another is sentient ( purusha). Without sentient purush , prakriti can not do anything. Why are you denying the affect of association or proximity? Even in our daily life also we see how a good fellow get affected by his evil association though it is not wise to compare with the proximity of purusha-prakriti I again request to read my post to understand better what I actually mean .


    My dear friend, I have read Bhagwad Gita so many times and I won't hesitate to refer back again. Please rest assured, Bhagwad Gita has unending attraction for me. I am not asking questions to test your understanding but only to remove your misunderstanding that Jnana Yoga is not advocated by Bhagwad Gita or that Jnana Yoga is 180 degree opposite Bhakti Yoga. See, the Truth is One and all the paths must attain the same Reality at the end otherwise, the Truth cannot remain One and then the Truth will no longer remain Truth.
    I am trying to draw your attention towards this verse of Bhagwad Gita. The verses that you also have quoted specifically say that Prakriti is the doer and only due to Ahamkaar, the Jeeva is bound taking over the ownership of the actions. This is what Jnana Yoga says and you also accept this.


    Answer :- Please listen to me . There are other branches of jnan yoga also which Gita has refered to like kapila samkhya philosophy. The basic difference between you and me is that when I say milk turns into curd . you say there is no curd at all , there is only milk and seeing curd in milk is illusion. Curd is prepared from Milk but curd itself can not in turn become milk . So what is real to me ( curd) is illusion to you though you taste it . Do you like curd ? I think you do. I think to make unmanifest absolute Brahma without second, your jnan yoga ( advaitic teachings) has made everything projected and dream illusion but we the non advaitin see brahma everywhere since everything evolves from him only . In 30 of VII sri Krishna says “ He who sees me everywhere and sees all things in me , I am never out of his sight nor is he ever out of my sight” . You deny the reality of jagat and sansar the reality of karma yoga .Gita 7 of X ,sri krishna says “ He who knows in reality these manifold manifestations and the yogic power of mine, becomes united with me through unwavering yoga. There is no doubt in this” and 8 of X says “ I am the origin of all. From me does everything evolve Knowing this ,the wise filled in love and devotion, worship me”. He has told Arjun his glories , his manifestations in chapter X. This manifestations are neither unreal nor dream. . Since this is perishable, this is called asat. There can be no perishable aspect of a dreamy or projected world. Can you show me one sloka from Gita which explain that this jagat has not been created but projected by maya or jagat is a dream only. In chapter VII sri Krishna describes what his maya is . Is maya in advaita philosophy same as maya in Gita . Is your conception of maya composed of such elements as mentioned in 4 of VII ? Being advaitin how do you acknowledge three gunas sattva rajas tamas ( Maya) of Brahma ? Your jnan yoga advocate renunciation of karma and prefer sannyas whereas Gita advocates renunciation of karmaphal only and strongly supports doing karma and living day to day life. Your jnan yoga advocates knowing one’s own self ( atma) whereas Gita teaches to surrender everything to sri krishan ,to know sri Krishna. .The religion which Gita advocates is far far different from what advaitavada teaches.I can show you this in every chapter of Gita. Therefore once you acknowledge the reality of jagat, you will easily understand who acts and how the action takes place. Jnan in Gita does not mean to realize “I am brahma” . Here in Gita jnan means ksetra-ksetrajna jnan or prakriti-purush jnan , Deha-Dehi. Jnan. “Aham Brahmasmi” in Gita means I belong to brahma because I am ( jivatma) is a part of him. So I have to go there, I have to unite with him. There is no reason to understand that whole will unite with whole . It is part which will unite with whole. He tells Arjun again and again “ you do it , you will come to me” and never tells “ if you do this you will become me ( brahma). He says in 12 of VII that he is not under maya ( gunas of prakriti) but we are. Sri Krishna tells Arjun in 5 of IV “ both thou and I have passed many a life . I know all of them, thou do not” This is the difference between brahma and jiva.He again says “ I am not bound by the cycles of birth” in 6 of IV. But we the jives are .He comes into being through his divine power ( maya) but we can not.So he has a divine birth and activities.How can we the jives be brahma ? Waves are there in the sea but there is no sea in the waves. In 8 of IX sri Krishna says “ Taking control of my own prakriti , I creat again and again the entire mass of these beings, who are helpless being swayed by their own prakriti”Gita speaks of jnan marg but no way Gita supports the jives are brahma and northing else or jagat is projected by maya. Gita says jagat is created by sri bhagavan. The essence of Gita is doing karma without thinking of fruits that is renunciation of karmaphal and not karma whereas in advaitic view karma ceases to exist. In 2 of V bhagavan says “ Both renunciation and action lead to deliverance. But of the two, the selfless performance of action is superior to its renunciation” If you say jives are nothing but brahma itself then question is how brahma can be bound by the gunas of prakriti i.e. maya ? This is just against Gita . Maya being a servant of brahma can not bind her master . Brahma is mayadhish and jives are mayadhin. This is Gita.
    Continued :

  10. #20
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    Re: Jnana Marg

    Does this verse not proclaim that "All Actions" and that includes Bhakti too … that are performed by Prakriti and the Jeeva's thinking that he is the doer is wrong ? Therefore, even the Bhakti is performed by Prakriti. So, unless the person acts as a fool (using the word as used by God) and assumes that he is Bhakta, he actually is not a Bhakta. Right ?
    Let's see these verses too


    Answer :- Yes it includes not only bhakti , actions for attaining of jnan also . If you think so then you have to face the same question that what ever you do to attain jnan is not done by you but by prakriti only. If you think yourself a jnani you are also fool. You should understand the difference between purusha and prakriti and also their relationship.In 2 of XIII sri Krishna says “ To my mind the knowledge of the field and its knower is true knowledge” Therefore knowledge of “ Aham brahmasmi” is not true knowledge.

    These verses proclaim without a doubt that Prakriti/the three GuNas are alone the doer and not the Jeeva. The verse 14.19 especially prohibits one from seeing any other entity except the Gunas as the actor.

    Now if that is so, then all actions i.e. my chanting the name of God, offering flowers, sacred flame/oblations etc. are all illusions as I am not the doer but the Prakriti and God advises me not see myself as the actor but ONLY the three GuNas.

    Why am I discussing these questions at all ? It is not that you have not read BG or I have not read it. What I am trying to do is that you can see the Advaitic teachings in Bhagwad Gita … so that you can see that JnAna Yoga is not opposite to what Lord Krishna taught in BG but is absolutely in line with it.


    Answer :- In the same line I like to ask you a question. Sri Krishna knows very well that Arjun will not fight only gunas of prakriti will fight and even he himself teaches this to Arjuna and still he is asking Arjun to fight or to act . correct? why ? . This purush-prakriti tattva has come into Gita not from Advaitic teaching but from the kapil samkhya philosophy according to which ultimate reality is not Brahma . You have missed the basic point of difference betweem Gita and advaitic teachings. Suppose, While you eat something, the action of eating is done by your organs which are prakriti according to Gita but this inert prakriti can only act when it is connected by the association of purusha or atma dwelling in the hearts of beings. This action of eating by prakriti is not illusion at all. Karma is done by body ( kebalang sarirang karma 21 of IV) . The wise knows that purusha does not act but remains as witness at the same time sustainer also. In 11 of V sri Krishna says “ The yogins ( who follow path of action) perform action with only body mind understanding or with only the senses, forsaking attachment and egoism for purifying their souls”. Suppose there is a situation where purusha and prakriti stays away from each other, can any action will take place. Can either of the two alone act on its own ? But as and when both purush and prakriti come together, action is started and this is what sri Krishna says . But this purush and prakriti are nothing but Para and Apara prakriti of sri Krishna. That is why the knowledge of the field and and its knower is true knowledge” and in 34 of XIII “ Those who thus perceive with the eye of wisdom, the distinction between the field and its knower and the liberation of beings from the bondage of prakriti, they attain the highest goal.” It is not illusion rather it is true knowledge. In 39 of III “ Knowledge is enveloped by desire” , what knowledge here talked about by sri Krishna, can you tell me ? For true knowledge or jnan you have to go in sloka 9 and 10 of jnan yoga chapter IV where it says
    One who truly understands My transcendental appearance, and activities of creation, maintenance, and dissolution attains My Supreme Abode and is not born again after leaving this body, O Arjuna. (4.09) One develops love of God by studying and listening to the transcendental birth and sportive acts of the bhagavan which is called his LILA as narrated by the saints and sages in the scriptures. True understanding of the transcendental nature of Lord’s form, His incarnation, and His activities is the Self-knowledge that leads to salvation. Freed from passion fear and anger wholly absorbed in me seeking refuge in Me ( means bhakta), purged by the austere discipline of wisdom, many a soul has come to be one with me (4.10). In 2 of VII sri Krishna says “ To thee will I unfold in full this knowledge along with its intimate experience , having known which there is nothing else here left to be known” He goes on in 3 “ Among thousands of men hardly one works for perfection and of those who strive and attain to perfection hardly one realizes me in my true essence” Here in this chapter he speaks of prakriti-purush that is his para-apara prakriti jnan. Here you will find how milk(bhagavan) turns into curd(jagat). You will find who is jiva , who is maya etc.
    I say Gita does not support to that jnan marg which preaches “ Aham Brahmasmi” and jagat is dream or a projection of maya. Gita teaches that jnan yoga which help in developing bhakti. In the very jnan yoga chapter ( IV) at sloka 8 , sri Krishna says “ for protecting the virtuous for destroying the wicked and for setting righteousness on firm foundations, I am born and reborn from age to age”. Now the question is where does it happen ? in real world or in dream world ? He says in 42 of IV “ O Bharata, having cut asunder this doubt in your heart, born of ignorance, by the sword of knowledge, betake yourself to yoga and stand up for fight” Here I like to ask you what is the doubt . If the knowledge is of “ I am brahma” how can Arjun stand up for fight ? You are quoting only a few verses from Gita in favour of jnan marg but I can show you bhakti marg in every chapter of Gita. Only bhakta is entitled to attain the jnan ( 3.IV). Only a bhakta become a true yogi( 47.VI). To know the entirety of sri Krishna , one have to take refuge in him ( 1.VII). Sri Krishna says that his maya is surely difficult to overcome but those who take refuge in him alone and who worships him with unfaltering love can transcend this maya and become fit to attain oneness with the Brahma. ( 14.VII and 26.XIII). Jnan can not help you to overcome “mama maya durattaya”. Among the four types of devotees, the jnani whose devotion is single minded is the best (17.VII). Jnani devotee realizes the truth “ Vasudeva is all”. Sri Krishna says “ I am the taste in water, light in the moon and the sun, the sacred Om in all the Vedas, the sound in ether and prowess in men, the fragrance in earth and radiance in fire, the life in all beings. He is immanant in every being. But you will see nothing. You say everything is illusion only brahma is truth. Chapter X is full of his manifestations. He is saying I am this and I am that but still you deny. He says “ I am easily attainable by that ever steadfast devotee who always thinks of me and whose mind does not go elsewhere”( 14.VIII). “ The supreme being in which all other beings dwell and who pervades this universe can however be attained by single minded devotion or bhakti only” (22.VIII). I do not understand what more you need ? He says “ I am the origin of all. From me does everything evolve. Knowing this , the wise filled with love and devotion worship me” (8.X). Is jnan necessary at all ? “ To them who are in constant union with me, who worship me with love, I give the power of understanding by which they realize me ( 10.X) and “ out of compassion for them, I dwelling in their hearts, dispel the darkness born of ignorance by the radiant lamp of wisdom” (11.X). Can your brahma do this favour to me ? So bhagavan is there for bhakta only and not for jnani who wishes to become brahma.

    I would like to discuss chapter XVIII with you separately.

    1) “ He who is fully non attached self controlled and devoid of desire , attains supreme perfection of naishkarmya through renunciation of the fruits of action” 49.
    2) “Arjune, hear from me in brief how after acquiring such perfection, he attains to Brahma, the ultimate goal of Knowledge” 50.
    3) Then in 51-53 he says such and such sadhaka is fit to attain oneness with the Brahma
    4) Now in 54 he says “ Being one with Brahma, with tranquility in mind , neither grieving nor craving, regarding all being alike, he attains Supreme devotion unto me.
    5) In 55 he continues “ Through such devotion he comes to know me who and how much I am and in all my reality and principles of my being and having known me in truth, he forthwith enters into me”. The meaning of these verses will be crystal clear if you link with verse 27 of XIV where sri Krishna says “ I am the abode of Brahma, the immortal and immutable, of eternal dharma and absolute bills” and 18 of XV where sri Krishna says “ Since I transcend the perishable and excel the imperishable, I am known in the Vedas and in this world as the Supreme Person ( Purushottama)”. Please go on reading verses from 56 to 64 of XVIII. Verses 65 and 66 are the climax which says “ Become My-minded, my lover and adorer, a sacrificer to me, bow thyself to me, to me thou shall come ; this is my pledge and promise to thee for dear are thou to me”-65 and 66 says “ Abandon all dharmas and take refuge in me alone. Grieve not, I will deliver thee from all sin and evil”. Shall I require any explanation of these verses of XVIII ? Jnani ends in brahma but bhakta goes on to purushottam.
    Gita’s concluding message : Abandonment of all dharmas- Absolute surrender to the supreme purusha and attainment of the Godhead through Devotion or bhakti.

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