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Thread: Jnana Marg

  1. #41

    Re: Jnana Marg

    SB 1.7.10

    suta uvaca
    atmaramas ca munayo
    nirgrantha apy urukrame
    kurvanty ahaitukim bhaktim
    ittham-bhuta-guno harih
    SYNONYMS
    sutah uvaca -- Suta Gosvami said; atmaramah -- those who take pleasure in atma (generally, spirit self); ca -- also; munayah -- sages; nirgranthah -- freed from all bondage; api -- in spite of; urukrame -- unto the great adventurer; kurvanti -- do; ahaitukim -- unalloyed; bhaktim -- devotional service; ittham-bhuta -- such wonderful; gunah -- qualities; harih -- of the Lord.
    TRANSLATION
    All different varieties of atmaramas [those who take pleasure in atma, or spirit self], especially those established on the path of self-realization, though freed from all kinds of material bondage, desire to render unalloyed devotional service unto Shri Hari, the Personality of Godhead. This means that the Lord possesses transcendental qualities and therefore can attract everyone, including liberated souls.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

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    Re: Jnana Marg

    Quote Originally Posted by Omkara View Post
    What I posted IS Madhva's interpretation of the verse. What does it mean to say that the world is 'without truth'? Do charvakas not accept the self evident fact that some statements are true and others are false?
    What you have provided is his translation of the verse. There should also be an explanation/commentary which he offers. I do not have Madhava's commentary. I have Ramanujas and BG as it is by Prabhupada. Neither of them take aim at the Advaitin via this verse or the verses prior and after. The main opponent here seems to be the materialist.

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    Re: Jnana Marg

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    Namaste

    DISCLAIMER: I am not here to contest anyone's understanding or views, but would simply like to share something about the jnAni bhakta.



    Yes, this is fine. However,

    -------

    By the way, why is KRshNa fighting with KRshNa over KRshNa ?
    Namaste,

    Not to offend you, but like you point to shastras which talks about Dvaita and Vishistadvaita, shastras also talk about Advaita. Shankaracharya revived the shastras, without him, this world would have missed them.

    Buddhism was in full flow and the arguments made by Buddhists monks and Gurus were very difficult to be countered. Shankaracharya walked the length and breath of India and re-established Vedanta. He preached Advaita-Vedanta.

    True advaitins never reject any faith. We just say, there is no need to think about it. Neglecting, being neutral, not giving importance is not negative and does not mean - opposition. There can be individuals who can behave in this way, but path itself does not.

    I respect you and Gita has been interpreted by many saints and great acharyas, whom are even considered avatars.

    Likewise, I can quote from Ashtavakra Gita. Even Yog-Vashista (Yoga-Vasista) talks about Advaita, where the non-dual state is supreme.

    I searched net, but could not find any commentaries written by Ramanuja and Madhavacharya.

    Have you read Ashtavakra Gita, which is often ignorred by many? It's based on Ajata vada.

    To accept Ashtavakra you are going to have to drop yourself unconditionally.

    e.g. Whats the objective (LaxyArth), to praise a faith or path is just to establish it strongly in the mind of devotees. Not to defame the faith.

    clearing doubt is different from trying to prove.

    Not trying to understand means you are wearing a bullet-proof jacket. When one is not receptive, you cannot make him/her understand anything. You cannot talk of ocean to a frog who is born and lived in well, never went out of well.

    I see this world with blue glass, you with pink, then can our opinion match?

    The problem is that we talk about the words, did did we think on WHY? and HOW?

    Why? gives the reason / intention / purpose behind any statement.

    Some statements are inspiration, some act as reference statements.

    How? shows us the way - that can be practically applied, without which shastras are meaningless (to us).

    Why I am writing is because, I or Devotee ji is not rejecting dvaita path. We appreciate (and understand) paths, but the question is Do you appreciate and understand advaita?

    There is no need to change path.

    I will not quote from any shastras as it will add fuel, worst may hurt sentiments. Everybody things that their watch shows correct time, but no 2 watches have same time - old saying.

    All I want is that just respect other faiths, nothing more.

    So the statements (not by you), like 'Your Brahman', 'Your upanishads', 'maybe Shankaracharya might be thinking of Krushna at the time of death', etc are nothing but narrow crippled biased thinking - Again I am not pointing it to you, bu to japamala who wrote it.

    Some simply do the ctrl+f --> find and replace --->

    Find all: Brahman
    Replace All: Krushna.

    That is still fine, no problem, but then there no appreciation, respect, or atleast being neutral to advaita faith. Better not to think of it than to think negatively. Nothing is going to happen to all 4 acharyas, but we can deviate from our paths.

    Will God like it? What is our goal? what is spirituality? to calm mind or keep agitated?

    Please think.

    By the way, why is KRshNa fighting with KRshNa over KRshNa ?
    +1 agree

    Aum
    Indiaspirituality
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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    Re: Jnana Marg

    Pranams


    Not wishing to take side either way, thought i contribute what Lord Krishna says about the state of this jagat.

    mam upetya punar janma
    duhkhalayam asasvatam
    napnuvanti mahatmanah
    samsiddhim paramam gatah

    Here lord Krishna is clearly defining what this place is that we live in, full of Dukh and it is temporary in nature.

    And that there is a state superior in nature to attain.

    It is fruitless to argue which path is better when Gita says;

    sankhya-yogau prthag balah
    pravadanti na panditah
    ekam apy asthitah samyag
    ubhayor vindate phalam

    Those who are actually learned say that he who applies himself well to one of these paths achieves the results of both.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  5. #45
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    Re: Jnana Marg

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    Pranams


    Not wishing to take side either way, thought i contribute what Lord Krishna says about the state of this jagat.

    mam upetya punar janma
    duhkhalayam asasvatam
    napnuvanti mahatmanah
    samsiddhim paramam gatah


    Here lord Krishna is clearly defining what this place is that we live in, full of Dukh and it is temporary in nature.

    And that there is a state superior in nature to attain.

    It is fruitless to argue which path is better when Gita says;

    sankhya-yogau prthag balah
    pravadanti na panditah
    ekam apy asthitah samyag
    ubhayor vindate phalam

    Those who are actually learned say that he who applies himself well to one of these paths achieves the results of both.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Namaste Ganeshprasad ji,

    thank you for excellent explanation

    ---

    EDIT:

    mam upetya punar janma
    duhkhalayam asasvatam
    napnuvanti mahatmanah
    samsiddhim paramam gatah - 8:15

    SYNONYMS

    mam--unto Me; upetya--achieving; punah--again; janma--birth; duhkha-alayam--a place of miseries; asasvatam--temporary; na--never; apnuvanti--attain; maha-atmanah--the great souls; samsiddhim--perfection; paramam--ultimate; gatah--achieved.

    TRANSLATION

    After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection.
    jneyah sa nitya-sannyasi
    yo na dvesti na kanksati
    nirdvandvo hi maha-baho
    sukham bandhat pramucyate - 5:3

    SYNONYMS

    jneyah--should be known; sah--he; nitya--always; sannyasi--renouncer; yah--who; na--never; dvesti--abhors; na--nor; kanksati--desires; nirdvandvah--free from all dualities; hi--certainly; maha-baho--O mighty-armed one; sukham--happily; bandhat--from bondage; pramucyate--is completely liberated.
    TRANSLATION

    One who neither hates nor desires the fruits of his activities is known to be always renounced. Such a person, liberated from all dualities, easily overcomes material bondage and is completely liberated, O mighty-armed Arjuna.
    Source: Bhagavad Gita As It Is

    ---

    I think I raised a dead thread, which made this mess. I was very new (7 days old) on this forum, forgot to see the date and raised a 3 year old thread.

    I do not think OP is interested in this thread anymore - Last post in 2009

    My sincere apologies to all.

    A Humble Request to all respected members:

    Please correct me if I am going off-track. I do not want Satay to remain busy patrolling this forum. I think I should lessen this burden on Satay, with your help, so that he can relax more, else it will be a headache for him to mod, which he does on voluntarily in free time and offer us this Forum for Free.

    Please I am not acting as a mod.

    Notes:

    Please look at the thread title and the forum in which it is posted.

    If we advaitins cannot post in advaita forums, then where can we discuss? If an advaitin is not supported in advaita forum and an advaita view point is not appreciated and talked about in advaita forum, then where else it can be discussed on this Forum?

    There are forums for other paths in which other faiths like VA can be cheerfully discussed and enjoyed by like-minded devotees.

    Sincerely

    Aum
    IS
    Last edited by Amrut; 14 February 2013 at 11:35 AM. Reason: added more info
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  6. #46

    Re: Jnana Marg

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post

    If we advaitins cannot post in advaita forums, then where can we discuss? If an advaitin is not supported in advaita forum and an advaita view point is not appreciated and talked about in advaita forum, then where else it can be discussed on this Forum?
    This is the yoga/jnana forum. Who said that you cannot post in advaita forum?
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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    Re: Jnana Marg

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post

    True advaitins never reject any faith. We just say, there is no need to think about it. Neglecting, being neutral, not giving importance is not negative and does not mean - opposition. There can be individuals who can behave in this way, but path itself does not.

    Why I am writing is because, I or Devotee ji is not rejecting dvaita path. We appreciate (and understand) paths, but the question is Do you appreciate and understand advaita?
    Advaita, vishishtadvaita and dvaita are not 'paths', they are mutatually contradictory beleif systems. Accepting one of them must necessarily involve rejecting others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post

    Not to offend you, but like you point to shastras which talks about Dvaita and Vishistadvaita, shastras also talk about Advaita. Shankaracharya revived the shastras, without him, this world would have missed them.
    So you are essentialy saying that the shastras simultaneously preach three mutually irreconcilable philosophies?
    Last edited by Omkara; 14 February 2013 at 08:15 PM.
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    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


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    Re: Jnana Marg

    Namaste Smaranam,

    It is nice to have you in this discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    However, VAsudeva sarvam iti does not make the jnAni bhakta think that VAsudev is attributeless.
    See, the attributeless Brahman can't be called be called by any name. However, in Bhagwad Gita, Lord Krishna has been described both as Saguna and Nirguna Brahman. Actually, if you see from the viewpoint of a JnAni, it hardly matters to him. You are going towards the same goal whether you have an image of where you are going or whether you can proceed without that ... is entirely upon you.

    I must clarify here that JnAnis worship God in both Saguna and Nirguna forms even though final goal remains Nirguna.

    he jnAna precedes prema bhakti. How does s/he get there?
    By "worshipping KrshNa" , that is precisely how s/he becomes an uttam bhakta (who is jnAni).
    The jnAni bhakta has anurAg towards KRshNa. That is what leads them to love all beings as Krishna's, and then see everywhere attributes and transcendental qualities of Krishna and Krishnaness.
    This is your thinking from the point of view of Bhakti-yoga. JnAnis don't think that way. For him, there is God alone and everything else is Mithya. Form/formlessness, attributes, attributelessness are all mental constructs. God is beyond all these mental constructs.

    The jnAni bhakta sees a sparrow, a bulbul or a crow sitting on the branch and asks "You seem to be in such a good chirpy singing mood, KRshNa! Would You like some birdseeds? Here is some water. Are you calling Your friends? " and gets lost in His rUpa lAvaNya in that very bird form. You are so cute! he says.
    If you see from an Advaitin's point of view, he sees God where the bird is ... he is not distracted by rUpa-lAvaNya of the bird and her sweet voice etc. The Supreme alone is sought which has to be attained by discarding what is Mithya.

    The difference:
    S/he does not classify the form or Person of VAsudev, the love of his/her life, (or any of His uncountable forms) as vyAvahAric satya.
    The jnAni bhakta does not think vAsudev is attributeless. S/he knows He is shadaishwarya sampanna - and adores His unlimited transcendental qualities.
    I think you are trying to define what a JnAni bhakta should be and in waht way he should act. However, Bhagwad Gita doesn't say what you say. In this way, everyone is free to give his own explanation of a JnAni Bhakta.

    To the jnAni bhakta, KRshNa playing His Flute is not vyavahAr. It is the fulfillment of the purpose of the bhakta's existence.
    Is His stealing of butter vyavahAr? If KRshNa comes through the window will the AtmArAm jnAni bhakta brush Him off as vyAvahAric in name and form & third stage of brahman ? What kind of parmArtha would it be that thinks the very Parameshwar rUpa, full of guNa, ras, lAvaNya, shakti, jnAna, vairAgya & shri, is vyAvahAric ?
    From Advaitin's point of view, you are too much caught in attractions of worldly forms and guNas and rasa etc. (i.e. MAyA) whereas for a JnAni it is all hindrance. So, we shall never be able to reconcile our difference in opinions.

    By the way, why is KRshNa fighting with KRshNa over KRshNa ?
    There is no fight. ... and Krishna doesn't fight with another Krishna. This is all happening within Prakriti/MAyA to be able to see the Truth clearly. We have a long way to go to attain one-ness with Krishna. The fact that we are here and want to discuss issues like this ... we are still away from Krishna.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Jnana Marg

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    It is fruitless to argue which path is better when Gita says;

    sankhya-yogau prthag balah
    pravadanti na panditah
    ekam apy asthitah samyag
    ubhayor vindate phalam

    Those who are actually learned say that he who applies himself well to one of these paths achieves the results of both.
    Quite pertinent, GaneshPrasad ji ! I fail to understand why we can't have mutual respects for both the paths from both the sides ! There is no issue upto this point, "My path is valid". The problem starts when some people start saying openly or in veiled way, "... and your path is wrong".

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Jnana Marg

    Namaste IndiaSpirituality,

    Thanks for your well thought valuable inputs ! There is no point in trying to explain to a person who has strong bias against your views. The verse that Omkara has quoted nowhere says that this world is real. It only says what the demoniacal people say about this universe. An unbiased person would never miss this word, "Asatyam" used with "ApratishTham" which has been used here. First of all, as you yourself have pointed out, JnAnis don't say that this world is "asatyam" otherwise, instead of saying, "Brahman satyam jagan mithya", Sankaracharya would have said, "Brahman Satyam jagan asatyam". ... and because the world is not "apratishTham" he further added, "Jivo Brahmiva naparah".

    But how can you make anyone understand when that person has taken a Bhishma vow for "not to understand" ?

    That is why I offered japmala to stop this discussion and start respecting others' points of view too (it is sheer waste of time). However, that offer has not been seen in right perspective. So, let's continue.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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