Gods and goddesses?

[Spiritualseeker]

Hello all,

This might seem like a silly question, but how do we know that gods and goddesses exist? Also are there any good articles by Hindus defending the belief in many gods in refutation to monotheist?

Also do Gods help in meditation?

Thanks
-Juan

[Eastern Mind]

Logically, you don't know. Its all a matter of faith, based on spiritual experience. You had your Ganesha, and Siva dream, didn't you? Is that 'proof'? Maybe. Maybe not. I believe that God and Gods (my best anology would be Christian archangels) are absolutely real.

Aum Namasivaya

[amra]

All the Gods and Godesses that make up the universe are inside the body on a smaller scale. There is no need of faith, it is a matter of seeing a fact, until you see, a million logical arguments for and against will only add to the weight on your head and push you further down. We do not deal in faith but only with facts, with reality.

[Spiritualseeker]

Thanks amra

So it seems Hinduism is more practical than other theistic paths that just rely on Faith but no experience of the divine?

[saidevo]

For an elementary view on this formula 'one God, many gods' of Hinduism, you might read this thread:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=442

If I exist in many of the roles and external forms I need to play/take, and then I exist as a single soul too, and since the truth about my many forms of existence is not just faith but experiential knowledge, it is the same with the One God and the many gods.

[MahaHrada]

Thanks amra

So it seems Hinduism is more practical than other theistic paths that just rely on Faith but no experience of the divine?

Dear Seeker

Please consider that Amra is not a Hindu herself. Different to what she read about the subject, in Hinduism or bharata Dharma (any indian spiritual tradition) you are required to have faith and trust .
You need Faith in your teacher, in the doctrine of your tradition, and its scriptures (shastra), and of course in the object of worship. The devata, or object of worship can differ with the tradition and with one´s individual inclination and qualification.

Faith is not only needed, without it spiritual Life is not possible, it is that which makes up a human being. Sri Krishna says in the Bhagavadgita in Chapter XVII that a human being is wholly determined by what his beliefs are (skt. shraddha) and that religious acts without faith are both ineffective and not even praiseworthy. (asat)

2. Krishna said:The natural faith of embodied beings is of three kinds born of their nature either Sattvika, Rajasika, and Taamasika. Hear about that:

3.O Arjuna, the faith of each is in accordance with one's own nature
Man is made of faith what his faith is that shurely he is.

4.The Sattvik men worship Devas,
The Rajasik people worship yakshas and rakshasas,
And the Tamasik worship ancestor spirits pisachas and ghosts.

......

28. Whatever sacrifice, charity, austerity,
is performend without faith, Oh Partha is called Asat.
It has no value here or hereafter, O Arjuna.

Chapter XVII of the Bhagavad Gita
"Sraddha-Traya-Vibhaga-Yoga,"
meaning "The Yoga of the Three Forms of Faith"

[Eastern Mind]

If I exist in many of the roles and external forms I need to play/take, and then I exist as a single soul too, and since the truth about my many forms of existence is not just faith but experiential knowledge, it is the same with the One God and the many gods.

Well said, Sir. I'm not sure how you could have any true faith without experiential knowledge. Is it not our experiences that bring us faith? Surely we are not born with it inherent.

Aum Namasivaya

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

Regarding faith, as I see it...
śraddhā श्रद्धा faith, unwavering faith; trust , confidence , trustfulness , faithfulness


It is my firm belief that śraddhā is an important ingredient to one's spiritual unfoldment or vipramokṣa¹ - But who I am I to say? If we looked to the Chāndogya Upaniṣad, Nārada is instructed by the great muni Sanatkumāra-ji. Nārada wishes to know Brahman in full, in his own being. Sanatkumāra-ji talks of 26 qualities. The 19th quality is śraddhā श्रद्धा faith. He says the following:
When having śraddhā श्रद्धा faith alone one contemplates. One of no faith never contemplates. Faith therefore is to be known in detail. Nārada says, Then revered Sir, I would like to know this śraddhā in detail.
Sanatkumāra-ji says the following:
When having steadfastness alone (niṣṭhā&#185 one has faith. One of no steadfastness ( lacking niṣṭhā) never has faith. The steadfast alone if endowed with faith. Steadfastness (niṣṭhā) therefore is to be known.

It is clear ( to me ) that this quality is held in high regard. Yes, but what do you think yajvan? For me, this niṣṭhā or firmness or fixity or śraddhā, I have the following firm view:

• That Brahman is all that I see and do not see.
• That the existence of HIM (the Universal Self) permeates everything and is every thing, and I have the opportunity to experience/live that.
• That I need to go no further then my SELF to realize this.
• That one's owns sādhana, or spiritual practice is the tool to realize the truth of Brahman. Sādhana at its root, dhana¹ धन or ‘treasure’ is no further then or outside of me.
• Even though I make the choice to realize the SELF, it is the SELF that reveals it-SELF to it-SELF ( this can be called HIS grace).
• It is my resolve (kratu) & delight, or responsibility to set up the conditions for this to occur.

In the Chāndogya Upaniṣad (3.14.1) it says sa kratuṁkurvīta i.e. he should make the resolve. This is part of the same śloka stating everything here is verily Brahman (sarvam khalviaṁ brahma).

Ādi Śaṅkarā offers more clarity on this one word 'kratu'. He says kratu is a firm will, with a fixed idea and sense of certainty that this is so, not otherwise.

To that end, I see śrāddha beyond blind faith but as adhyavasāna, that of perseverance, determined effort or of one-pointedness.

And as it is offered in the Upaniṣad śloka it advises and directs the traveler (adhvanīya) to make the resolve to realize this truth , that of sarvam khalviaṁ brahma. That there will be help along the way , by guidance, guru, and/or Divine help (Indra and Sanatkumāra).

Hence as I see it śraddhā (faith) gives support to resolve (kratu) + steadfastness (niṣṭhā) which helps fuel adhyavasāna, that of perseverance, determined effort or one-pointedness. But one-pointedness for what? To the realization that sarvam khalviaṁ brahma.

praṇām

words

• vipramokṣa विप्रमोक्ष- loosing, release; deliverence from.
• niṣṭha निष्ठ intent on; grounded in; now we can look at this word niṣṭhā:
• niṣṭhā निष्ठा- firmness , steadiness , attachment , devotion , application , skill in , familiarity with , certain knowledge ; decisive.
  This is rooted in sthā standing , staying , abiding , being situated in , existing or being in i.e. fixity
• dhana धन- any valued object
• adhyavasāna अध्यवसान- energy , perseverance, determination; one-pointedness.

[Spiritualseeker]

Hello all,
thank you all for the great feedback. What would you recommend one who does not know if god exist? Like for me im not sure if perhaps the buddhist are right and that there is no creator god... I am having issues. I was losing faith even as a muslim for past 7 years. I wondered if all the god stuff was in my mind. And the calm and peaceful experiences I have felt without believing in a deity. So I am a bit confused. Im so lost but i seem to go in this samsaric circle. I would love to hear any advice

-juan

[Eastern Mind]

Getting lost is just more of the path. There would be nothing to find if we weren't all lost in varying degrees. But within Sanatana Dharma we are taught patience. There is no great hurry or need to push the panic button. Enjoy your quest!

Aum Namasivaya