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Thread: Women in hinduism?

  1. #21
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    Re: Women in hinduism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritualseeker View Post
    That is too bad. Thanks for showing the info. But it does seem that it could be literal. I was hoping hinduism would be a bit better towards women, but it seems about the same. I wish the verses had not existed.
    Namaste SS,

    I must thank Reflections for saying it so nicely.

    First of all, the quoted verse is disputed. It appears in Kila Kandam of the Brihdaranyaka Upanishad & appears to be added later on. If you read this Upanishad, the topic changes so suddenly from deep discussion on Self to rituals for worldly gains, that it almost shocks the reader.

    Moreover, Hindus have been able to keep Spirituality separate from social customs anywhere written in the scriptures. There are so many things written in various scriptures ( there are hundreds of scriptures unlike Islam which has only one) in Hinduism which today have no relevance in Hindu society. Those might have been correct to follow in a particular time but as the time changed, the Hindu society adopted progressive new ideas and it is changing everyday.

    In fact, it is also not necessary that all Hindus follow the same social customs ... it varies widely even within India. The customs followed by the Hindus in the South of India, the North of India, the Eastern part of India & the Western part of India vary quite significantly. It is quite reasonable to expect that customs followed by Hindus living outside India would vary even more.

    Here one must differentiate between the Abrahimic religions especially Islam & Hinduism. Islam tries to dictate terms on even routine things in one's personal life & one MUST follow that or face the wrath of the Clerics. Hindus don't have any Cleric dictating you how to live with your wife, how to lead your daily life etc. etc. Nobody interferes in your personal life & you are also expected behave in a similar manner duly respecting everyone's personal freedom & privacy.

    I think Saidevo ji has given good input on the status of Women in Hinduism earlier in his post.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  2. #22
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    Re: Women in hinduism?

    Namaste,

    I see, It just concerns me i dont know. Like some muslims have tried to adapt their religion but they cannot erase verses about beating the wives or erase the hadiths that say a woman must have sex with her husband or else angels curse her all night long. I just wished that in hinduism the text was updated or it could be proven that the Hindu religion adapted to modern times in context of womens rights etc..

    -juan

  3. #23
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    Re: Women in hinduism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritualseeker View Post
    Namaste Reflections,

    I understand where you coming from, but it is extremely important to me. One of the reasons I decided to leave Islam was when i was reading through my books of jurisprudence, I came accross an entire section on when you can beat your wife, how you can, and how hard etc..

    I have been contemplating if I am even going to join a religion. I am afraid because I feel like i will become attracted to certain aspects then join and then later realize it was a mistake when I find things I dislike. That is one of the reasons why Buddhism is still an option for me. But Hinduism is quite amazing afterall buddhism came from hinduism. and I am deeply attracted to Lord Ganesa as im sure everybody knows now. I even purchased a statue and I am contemplating possibly doing Puja. But I wont be satisfied until i see the entire truth, without anything being negative.

    -Juan
    Indian Religions have a known history of about 7000 years, and there are millions of pages of religious literature still available today and that is only a small part of what has been written and is lost now.
    So why care about a single verse?

    I think the best options anyways is to forget about joining "Hinduism".
    Conversion is normally not really a part of Hinduism. I know only of 2 Hindu organisations who promote the idea that conversions are possible in Hindu Religion. (Arya samaj and the Siddhanta Church)

    Then there are projects to reconvert former Hindus back to Hinduism which is altogether a different idea.

    The usual way would be to accept a teacher, if you accept a teacher you automatically will belong to his tradition and you do not need to bother at all if all holy books of every tradition are according to your liking.
    But even if you accept a teacher you have not converted, because that idea simply does not exist within the majority of Hindu traditions. If you want to convert you either have to become affiliated with arya samaj or siddhanta church, but you do not need to belong to any tradition or formally convert to worship shiva or ganesha. There is no need for conversion to be a Hindu. If you cannot get rid of the conversion idea, if belonging formally to a religion is needed for your happiness you need to contact arya samaj, or siddhanta church or buddhism.

  4. #24
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    Re: Women in hinduism?

    Namaste SS,

    I can appreciate your concern keeping in mind that you have just come back from Islam.

    The best test is to see what has been adopted by the Hindus as per Laws in India. Let me tell you, the today's laws are biased in favour of women. There are strong laws against dowry, domestic violence, sexual harassment at workplace, eve teasing etc. which are very strongly biased in favour of women where the evidence given by woman is taken a correct unless proved wrong by the person against whom the charges are labeled.

    Some people can always find a verse or two against women in ancient scriptures within Hinduism bur what matters most is what the Hindus really believe & accept. If they were really biased against women, would they adopt those laws in their home-country ?

    It doesn't matter to me whether you become a Hindu or a Buddhist or convert to any other religion. However, please don't have any wrong impression about us Hindus. You can meet some Hindu women who can make your doubts clear.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Women in hinduism?

    I think the best options anyways is to forget about joining "Hinduism".
    Conversion is normally not really a part of Hinduism. I know only of 2 Hindu organisations who promote the idea that conversions are possible in Hindu Religion. (Arya samaj and the Siddhanta Church)
    Thats too bad. Hinduism being as rich in spirituality as it is should be more open to outsiders. Afterall were the greeks that came into India Indians? What about those in Malaysia who are hindus. What about Bangledesh? Yet there are Malaysians that converted to hinduism. Not to mentioned Thai Hindus. Very strange... I understand you said you dont have to be hindu to worship Ganesha and Siva, but it sure helps when you feel welcome because then you join a "sangha" or community of true seekers.

    I can just picture myself going to a temple in the future and someone telling me I cannot worship there.

    Namaste SS,

    I can appreciate your concern keeping in mind that you have just come back from Islam.

    The best test is to see what has been adopted by the Hindus as per Laws in India. Let me tell you, the today's laws are biased in favour of women. There are strong laws against dowry, domestic violence, sexual harassment at workplace, eve teasing etc. which are very strongly biased in favour of women where the evidence given by woman is taken a correct unless proved wrong by the person against whom the charges are labeled.

    Some people can always find a verse or two against women in ancient scriptures within Hinduism bur what matters most is what the Hindus really believe & accept. If they were really biased against women, would they adopt those laws in their home-country ?

    It doesn't matter to me whether you become a Hindu or a Buddhist or convert to any other religion. However, please don't have any wrong impression about us Hindus. You can meet some Hindu women who can make your doubts clear.

    OM
    Thank you. I can see that Hindu women are respected, I was just wishing that there were no negative scriptures. But perhaps thats my attachment to have things the way I want. I must cut the strings from those attachments.

  6. #26
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    Re: Women in hinduism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritualseeker View Post

    I can just picture myself going to a temple in the future and someone telling me I cannot worship there.


    Thank you. I can see that Hindu women are respected, I was just wishing that there were no negative scriptures. But perhaps thats my attachment to have things the way I want. I must cut the strings from those attachments.
    If you want to convert, the option is there. Someone gave their opinion that its not necessary. That's their opinion, and all opinions are valid. Others gave their opinions that its possible and even beneficial. On my recent pilgrimage, as documented in the thread on it, I did have to pull out my certificate of conversion at Madurai. I, however, am assuming that you look 'Indian'. I may be wrong. So you could probably pull it off. Getting into Madurai was no big thing for me, as God is in you. Yet still it was nice to feel that I did belong. So these decisions are yours alone to make, having weighed all the pros and cons. There is no authority in Hinduism to tell you what to do. That's the beauty of it all. Well, I should qualify that somewhat. If you find your Guru, it would be best to obey Him at least to the best of your ability. A true guru will know you better than you know you, so his advice would be beneficial.

    I don't think you've truly grasped the vastness of scripture. Besides all the Sanskrit scriptures, there are others written in more regional languages. Since i'm a bit familiar with Tamil, I'll give you a couple of examples. The Thirmanthiram by Saint Tirumoolar has at least 3400 verses. The tiruvacagam translated into English by Alexander Pope (I bought a copy some 30 years back) is very lengthy. The Agamas are huge. Sometimes it has been one man's lifetime progect to translate these things. And I'm sure that there are other sacred scriptures in other ancient languages. I heard somewhere that anthropologists are still attempting to translate Indus valley scripts.

    So unlike the Bible, Torah, or Koran, Hindu scripture is these 3 combined times 100, and that's probably an underestimate. Others like Saidevo or Atanu can elaborate.

  7. #27

    Re: Women in hinduism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritualseeker View Post
    Thats too bad. Hinduism being as rich in spirituality as it is should be more open to outsiders.
    Dear SS, Please try to understand what he is saying. He is trying to say that there is no need to officially convert yourself. You will become Hindu when you think you are Hindu. There is no any official ceremony that will convert you into Hindu. However, if you feel that you need to get converted officially then contact Arya Samaj. No Conversion doesn't mean No Welcome, and no buddy is going to tell you that you can't enter because you are not Hindu. I think the problem is that you are keep looking at Hinduism from the Islam's point of view. This is not some kind of cult that you JOIN. Hinduism let you say that you are Hindu and Muslim. How much more openness do you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritualseeker View Post
    What about those in Malaysia who are hindus. What about Bangledesh? Yet there are Malaysians that converted to hinduism. Not to mentioned Thai Hindus.
    What about them? Did anybody said that only Indian can be Hindu? How are you relating conversion here?

  8. #28
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    Re: Women in hinduism?

    I don't think you've truly grasped the vastness of scripture. Besides all the Sanskrit scriptures, there are others written in more regional languages. Since i'm a bit familiar with Tamil, I'll give you a couple of examples. The Thirmanthiram by Saint Tirumoolar has at least 3400 verses. The tiruvacagam translated into English by Alexander Pope (I bought a copy some 30 years back) is very lengthy. The Agamas are huge. Sometimes it has been one man's lifetime progect to translate these things. And I'm sure that there are other sacred scriptures in other ancient languages. I heard somewhere that anthropologists are still attempting to translate Indus valley scripts.

    So unlike the Bible, Torah, or Koran, Hindu scripture is these 3 combined times 100, and that's probably an underestimate. Others like Saidevo or Atanu can elaborate.
    Yes I think I am not grasping it too well. Because I am thinking of the scriptures like the Quran. Thats why this issue is so important to me. Because in the Quran If I rejected the verse about wife beating and if my feelings towards the verse was that the verse is not right and I dont think anyone should follow it then I would instantly be branded a kafir (one who covers the truth or aka a disbeliever). So in Islam its all your nothing. You either accept it and believe that even that verse about wife beating is the best way to live since it is revealed by "Allah".

    So perhaps thats why when I heard about negative verses in scriptures I got upset.

    Dear SS, Please try to understand what he is saying. He is trying to say that there is no need to officially convert yourself. You will become Hindu when you think you are Hindu. There is no any official ceremony that will convert you into Hindu. However, if you feel that you need to get converted officially then contact Arya Samaj. No Conversion doesn't mean No Welcome, and no buddy is going to tell you that you can't enter because you are not Hindu. I think the problem is that you are keep looking at Hinduism from the Islam's point of view. This is not some kind of cult that you JOIN. Hinduism let you say that you are Hindu and Muslim. How much more openness do you want?
    Maybe I misunderstood. Perhaps the label isnt important. I just want to be able to go to a group of HIndus and sit with them and learn and worship along with them. Without anyone saying "your a wannabe hindu get out of here" etc.. HOpefully that wont happen. I just remember a rude hindu in highschool who would say things like that. I will have to find a guru. I dont know where to look or how to find one. But maybe ill ask around a temple.

    Thanks for the clarification
    -juan

  9. #29

    Re: Women in hinduism?

    I would suggest you to stop trying to understand everything at once. It will confuse you since you are not at that level yet. Instead, read and try to understand only one scripture at a time. For example take Shrimad Bhagavad Gita. Start reading it and understanding it. Once you understand it everything will start becoming clearer to you.
    I have attached link to some videos, you might want to take a look at them. I recommend you to watch all the episodes after this episode. Remember some English words might seem strange. The reason is there are just not enough words in English that can describe some Sanskrit words.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93QgfpVQU3U



    btw, I am not saying you should not ask questions.!!
    Last edited by dhruva023; 14 June 2009 at 07:41 PM.

  10. #30
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    Re: Women in hinduism?

    Excellent information I will definately try to take my time and look at the videos. I also just recently purchased the bhagavad gita explained in audio book form though when I try to listen to it I am at work and get busy so I have to shut it off. But ILl definately be checking out these videos and perhaps setting aside some time throughout the day to listen to the audio book.

    Thanks a lot for the kind reply

    Namaste

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