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Thread: Buddha and bhagavad gita?

  1. #81
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    Re: Buddha and bhagavad gita?

    THE SPEAKING TREE

    The Purpose, Utility And Futility Of Identity

    Sri Sri Ravi Shankar

    The universe is a multilayered existence; there are many levels: there are the molecular, the atomic and the subatomic levels. So also the human consciousness: though one, yet, it is many.

    An eight-year-old child in India was always given the Brahma Gyan first, before any other knowledge. The first upadesha or formal advice given during the Upanayanam or holy thread ceremony is called Brahmopadesha, where the highest identity of oneself is revealed as a secret. In this ceremony, the guru, father and mother whisper in the ear of the child: “You are THAT!” And then all the varnashrama dharmas, or lesser identities are taught and the duties are promulgated.

    The lesser identity is essential to perform limited duties that include those as student, son or daughter, husband or wife, father or mother, professional or citizen. Lesser identities strengthen the ‘karta’ or doer and enable him to complete the karma. Another utility of lesser identity is to move one from tamoguna to rajoguna. Krishna reminds Arjuna of his being a warrior and his warrior dharma, again and again after educating him in the Sankhya yoga, the highest knowledge of atma-gyan. He tells him about his kshatriya dharma and what people will say if he doesn’t do his duty, something that is irrelevant to a Brahmagyani.

    So, to come out of tamoguna, rajoguna is essential. And while moving from rajoguna to satoguna, all identities get dropped. That’s why Buddha said the world is all sorrow and misery; so take sanyas. His teachings were simple, plain, convincing, logical and so could be understood far and wide, whereas Krishna’s are complicated, confusing and contradictory and so they remained confined to India. Krishna also says “Anityam Asukham Loka”. The universe is anitya, asukha (transient, devoid of happiness) – he doesn’t say it is dukham – and further he says “Imam Prapya” --Achieving this, “Bhajaswamam” – merge into Me. (Gita, Ch. 9)

    In the Vedantic tradition, there are two paths: One is that of negation “neti neti”, which the Buddhists have adopted. The other is simply moving beyond negation. That is the path of Taitriya Upanishads, also called the varunya. The varun was given introduction … food is Brahmn, then told Prana Brahmn, without negating the previous. Then as the higher planes of manobrahma, vigyan-brahma and anandam-brahma are introduced, the previous identities are naturally superseded; no negation is used in this. You don’t need to negate being a householder to be a good citizen of your country and you don’t need to negate being a good citizen in order to be a world citizen; they all fall in place. The lower identities simply get absorbed and enriched as well. This is incomprehensible for a linear-thinking Occident.

    The dharmashastras and Brahmagyanis have all along been guiding when there is a conflict between the dharmas of different identities like between a grihastha-dharma or that of a householder and raja-dharma or that of a citizen. While identities are useful for performing the karmas, their futility is obvious in the field of knowledge or gyana. Like the membrane around the seed, which stays till the seed sprouts, identity will remain till the Brahmagyan is attained – they help one to complete their karmas.

    In the Gita, Krishna cleverly adopts both these methods, to bring both vairagya (to get out of sorrow) and to perform the duty, which Arjuna had to. “Na budhibhedam … karma sanghinam.”
    Last edited by atanu; 06 July 2009 at 12:04 AM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  2. #82
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    Re: Buddha and bhagavad gita?

    Svetaketu's father points the empty space inside a seed and says "Svetaketu You are That".

    We all are empty space. Shunya. Yet each seed encloses, as if, within the empty space a law: "This will sprout so". What came before? The law or the seed that covers the empty space? Brihadaraynaka says: There was nothing whatsover in the beginning, IT was covered by Death, Desire. Desire=Death creates the cover. Did Buddha teach a new knowledge, unknown to sages of Chandogya or Brihadaraynaka? In fact Buddhism appears to have nothing equivalent of Nasadiya or Mandukya. I would love to be proven wrong.

    Om Namah Shivaya
    Last edited by atanu; 06 July 2009 at 11:54 AM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  3. #83
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    Re: Buddha and bhagavad gita?

    Namaste Atanu,

    Simply brilliant explanations you have given.

    It is such confident, knowledgeable, yet noble way of discussion (quite unlike mine I might add) that makes this thread one of the best on this entire forum.

    I suggest Satay make this a 'sticky' so everyone has a chance to read it.

    I am amazed the lengths these westerners go to argue with their apparent logic to "prove a point".

    I was chastised by a so-called professor here in the States for mentioning the non-difference, philosophically speaking, between Hinduism & Buddhism.

    Namaskar.

  4. #84

    Re: Buddha and bhagavad gita?

    Greetings

    I am amazed the lengths these westerners go to argue with their apparent logic to "prove a point".

    Some degree of logic needs to be used in any debate, even Buddha would make use of logic on occasion


    metta
    "Not to do evil, to cultivate the good, and to purify the mind. This is the teaching of all the Buddha's"

  5. #85
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    Re: Buddha and bhagavad gita?

    I see that the word "apparent" is not so apparent after all!

    Quote Originally Posted by Anicca View Post
    Greetings




    Some degree of logic needs to be used in any debate, even Buddha would make use of logic on occasion


    metta

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    Re: Buddha and bhagavad gita?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritualseeker View Post
    Namaste,

    I have been listening to the bhagavad Gita and I noticed it seems very similar to buddhism. So I asked on E-Sangha (buddhist forum) about some of the concepts shared between the religions. I asked about the Atman being similar to buddha nature. And also about the worship of deities not as separate from oneself, which buddhist do too. This was the reply

    From the Lankavatara Sutra....



    So just a question, Did Buddha really bring about something he thought was superior to the Yogis of Hinduism? I thought uniting ones atman with the Divine was Moksha or aka Liberations nirvana. Yet it seems buddhist think if you have these hindus view you will be stuck in samsara. How do we reconcile this?
    Whatever its philosophical merits, this book is clear hijacking of Yoga plua trying to scorn Hinduism. Mahamati is Ravana, and is, then Buddha could not improve him and failed. Real Buddha never ventured out of North Bihar, yet he is shown in Lanka! An attempt to make Buddha time travel. Prior to this book, no other book ever mentions an encounter of Ravana with Buddha like person. Lastly, this book is not earlier than about 500-600 CE, maybe later. It was never noticed by Gaudapada, Nagarjuna, Shankar etc. It might be post Shankar even.


    The book bears a clear imprint of Yoga philosophy, in fact it is associated with Yogachara School.

  7. #87
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    Re: Buddha and bhagavad gita?

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste,

    I have promised that I won't be replying to MahaHrada's posts & I expect him to observe the same discipline (if he can't maintain the objectivity during discussion & sticks to his "I know better than you", "You don't know anything" etc. attitude) to avoid unnecessary bitterness in discussion. I come to this forum for "satsang" & not for egotistical fights.
    Mahahrada's post were analytical, whether they are right or wrong can be easily verified looking up the facts. I guess people rather talk vaguely, so they can't be proven wrong.

  8. #88
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    Re: Buddha and bhagavad gita?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritualseeker View Post
    Namaste,

    I have been listening to the bhagavad Gita and I noticed it seems very similar to buddhism. So I asked on E-Sangha (buddhist forum) about some of the concepts shared between the religions. I asked about the Atman being similar to buddha nature. And also about the worship of deities not as separate from oneself, which buddhist do too. This was the reply

    From the Lankavatara Sutra....



    So just a question, Did Buddha really bring about something he thought was superior to the Yogis of Hinduism? I thought uniting ones atman with the Divine was Moksha or aka Liberations nirvana. Yet it seems buddhist think if you have these hindus view you will be stuck in samsara. How do we reconcile this?
    Whatever its philosophical merits, this book is a clear attemot of hijacking of Yoga plus trying to scorn Hinduism. If Mahamati is Ravana, and is, then Buddha could not improve him and failed. Real Buddha never ventured out of North Bihar, yet he is shown in Lanka! An attempt to make Buddha time travel. Prior to this book, no other book ever mentions an encounter of Ravana with Buddha like person. Lastly, this book is not earlier than about 500-600 CE, maybe later. It was never noticed by Gaudapada, Nagarjuna, Shankar etc.

    The book bears a clear imprint of Yoga philosophy, in fact it is associated with Yogachara School.

  9. #89

    Re: Buddha and bhagavad gita?

    The Theravadas have corrupted buddhism greatly and the west clings to theravada and uses it as the base for buddhism and that is the undoing of those that speak of buddhism and teach it. Theravada is a total coruption of buddhism.
    the buddha never denied the Devas or the existance of the soul or a personal god or an afterlife for total death of the ego. the theravdas do and they have destroied buddhism to a great extent.

    pureland buddhism is just an ethnic version of vishnavaism. amida buddha is vishnu/krishna. every stupa stature and discription of buddha is of Vishnu. clear and simple. Buddhism is Vishnava!

    If i lived near a Hindu temple i would think nothing of attending and worshipping Vishnu. I do not even live near a Buddhist temple/sanga.

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