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Thread: Worship without Dualism?

  1. #1
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    Worship without Dualism?

    Namaste,

    I was just wondering if anyone can suggest tips on how to worship Lord Siva, Lord ganesha, Lord murugan and others without dualism.

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    Re: Worship without Dualism?

    My best advice is to not obsess on the restriction, the tickling doubt...

    Rather, just sit and not fuss around.


    Namaste,
    ZN/as easy said as done, get over it
    yaireva patanaM dravyaiH siddhistaireva choditA .
    shrI kauladarshane chApi bhairaveNa mahAtmanA .

    It is revealed in the sacred doctrine of Kula and by the great Bhairava, that the perfection is achieved by that very means by which fall occurs.

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    Re: Worship without Dualism?

    Hmm... Think what your saying is just be. Just be with it? Dont make it into a mental concept etc?

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    Re: Worship without Dualism?

    Not sure what you mean, but here's a guess. You're troubled by God is over there, on that shrine, seemingly separated from you, not just inside you?

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Worship without Dualism?

    Namaste,

    I was just wondering if anyone can suggest tips on how to worship Lord Siva, Lord ganesha, Lord murugan and others without dualism.
    This is a common question among the seekers.
    You kindly start worshiping them without expecting anything, thats a true sign of duality.

    Love for paramatman, faith, and the keenness to forfeit oneself to it. Attainment of advaita from the condition of dvaita can only be possisble through self sacrifice. Relinquish all aspirations, depart from fear, and attain the nature of paramatmanan and attain emancipation through this means of the manifestations of love and “self”(aham) sacrifice.

    Brahman

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    Re: Worship without Dualism?

    namaste,

    I think i understand brahman. Perhaps this is what is discussed in Loving Ganesha where it says we lose our will to the Gods or God Ganesha in particular just surrendering it to him.

  7. #7

    Re: Worship without Dualism?

    I must comment a bit (to the best of my ability).
    Its all about purity of mind, to sacrifice desires which cloud our vision. If we keep on doing what "we want" ["want" here is desires] we enforce desires/habits etc, that which darken our view. If we surrender our "want" to Ganesha and follow "his will" ["will" here is Atmic will] we surely are on the right track.
    See! God certainly is not far away! Is that close enough?

    Here's a quote form Ramakrishna that might clear things up:
    "The inferior devotee says, 'God exists, but He is very far off, up there in heaven.'
    The mediocre devotee says, 'God exists in all beings as life and consciousness.'
    The superior devotee says: 'It is God Himself who has become everything; whatever I see is only a form of God
    .'"
    (The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna)

    Now, I guess you are free to worship The God of your choice as either statue, immanent or as all. However, we must start from where we are right?
    “There is a Guru in each of us. It is the Atma principle. It is the Eternal Witness functioning as Conscience in everyone. With this Conscience as guide, let all actions be done.” (sss20-15)

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    Re: Worship without Dualism?

    Jabala Upanishad
    II-1. Thereafter the sage Atri (son of the creator Brahma) asked of Yajnavalkya: ‘How am I to realize the Self which is infinite and unmanifest ?’ (To this) Yajnavalkya replied: That Avimukta (Lord Siva as the redeemer) is to be worshipped; the Self which is infinite and unmanifest, is established in (i.e., is non-different from) the Avimukta (in Ishvara, possessed of attributes)’.

    II-2. ‘Which is that (place) where Avimukta is established ?’ ‘He is established in between varana and nasi’. ‘What is (meant by) varana and what (by) nasi ?’ ‘The varana is so called as it wards off all the faults committed by the (ten) organs (of perception and action). The nasi is so named as it destroys all sins committed by the (ten) organs. (The place between the varana and the nasi is the meeting place of the upper part of the nose and the centre of the eye brows). ‘Which is the seat of that (Avimukta) ?’ ‘That, which is the (well known) juncture of the eye brows and the nose, is the juncture of heaven (in the form of the crown of the head) and this world (in the form at the end of the chin). The knowers of the Veda worship indeed this juncture (Samadhi) as Sandhya (in their daily worship). That Avimukta is to be worshipped. He who knows this thus (the true nature of the Avimukta), imparts the wisdom of the Avimukta.
    -----------------------------------
    Ganapati, Durga putra, is none but manifest Shiva. Ganapati as the physical manifestation is the brain. Two brain lobes are his two ears -- father and mother. The central part, between the left and right brain lobes, is Ganesha as wisdom - Prajnya. The trunk is the spinal cord and the fat belly is many layers of clothings (experiences) -- the first few being the layers of the body itself, followed by the whole Universe, which is the whole experience of Ganesha. That is why his belly is fat.
    -------------------------------------
    Svetasvatara Upanishad Chapter I

    13
    The visible form of fire, while it lies latent in its source, the firewood, is not perceived; yet there is no destruction of its subtle form. That very fire can be brought out again by means of persistent rubbing of the wood, its source. In like manner, Atman, which exists in two states, like fire, can be grasped in this very body by means of Om.
    14
    By making the body the lower piece of wood and Om the upper piece and through the practice of the friction of meditation, one perceives the luminous Self, hidden like the fire in the wood.

    Chapter II
    16
    He indeed, the Lord, who pervades all regions, was the first to be born and it is He who dwells in the womb of the universe. It is He, again, who is born as a child and He will be born in the future, He stands behind all persons and His face is everywhere.

    Om Namah Shivaya
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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    Re: Worship without Dualism?

    Namaste,

    Thank you brahman nice explanation.

    I must comment a bit (to the best of my ability).
    Its all about purity of mind, to sacrifice desires which cloud our vision. If we keep on doing what "we want" ["want" here is desires] we enforce desires/habits etc, that which darken our view. If we surrender our "want" to Ganesha and follow "his will" ["will" here is Atmic will] we surely are on the right track.
    See! God certainly is not far away! Is that close enough?

    Here's a quote form Ramakrishna that might clear things up:
    "The inferior devotee says, 'God exists, but He is very far off, up there in heaven.'
    The mediocre devotee says, 'God exists in all beings as life and consciousness.'
    The superior devotee says: 'It is God Himself who has become everything; whatever I see is only a form of God
    .'"
    (The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna)

    Now, I guess you are free to worship The God of your choice as either statue, immanent or as all. However, we must start from where we are right?
    This is great thanks. I am starting to almost feel Lord Ganesha within me and around me.

    Jabala Upanishad
    II-1. Thereafter the sage Atri (son of the creator Brahma) asked of Yajnavalkya: ‘How am I to realize the Self which is infinite and unmanifest ?’ (To this) Yajnavalkya replied: That Avimukta (Lord Siva as the redeemer) is to be worshipped; the Self which is infinite and unmanifest, is established in (i.e., is non-different from) the Avimukta (in Ishvara, possessed of attributes)’.

    II-2. ‘Which is that (place) where Avimukta is established ?’ ‘He is established in between varana and nasi’. ‘What is (meant by) varana and what (by) nasi ?’ ‘The varana is so called as it wards off all the faults committed by the (ten) organs (of perception and action). The nasi is so named as it destroys all sins committed by the (ten) organs. (The place between the varana and the nasi is the meeting place of the upper part of the nose and the centre of the eye brows). ‘Which is the seat of that (Avimukta) ?’ ‘That, which is the (well known) juncture of the eye brows and the nose, is the juncture of heaven (in the form of the crown of the head) and this world (in the form at the end of the chin). The knowers of the Veda worship indeed this juncture (Samadhi) as Sandhya (in their daily worship). That Avimukta is to be worshipped. He who knows this thus (the true nature of the Avimukta), imparts the wisdom of the Avimukta.
    -----------------------------------
    Ganapati, Durga putra, is none but manifest Shiva. Ganapati as the physical manifestation is the brain. Two brain lobes are his two ears -- father and mother. The central part, between the left and right brain lobes, is Ganesha as wisdom - Prajnya. The trunk is the spinal cord and the fat belly is many layers of clothings (experiences) -- the first few being the layers of the body itself, followed by the whole Universe, which is the whole experience of Ganesha. That is why his belly is fat.
    -------------------------------------
    Svetasvatara Upanishad Chapter I


    13
    The visible form of fire, while it lies latent in its source, the firewood, is not perceived; yet there is no destruction of its subtle form. That very fire can be brought out again by means of persistent rubbing of the wood, its source. In like manner, Atman, which exists in two states, like fire, can be grasped in this very body by means of Om.
    14
    By making the body the lower piece of wood and Om the upper piece and through the practice of the friction of meditation, one perceives the luminous Self, hidden like the fire in the wood.

    Chapter II
    16
    He indeed, the Lord, who pervades all regions, was the first to be born and it is He who dwells in the womb of the universe. It is He, again, who is born as a child and He will be born in the future, He stands behind all persons and His face is everywhere.

    Om Namah Shivaya
    That was a great explanation. I have also begun to see that Lord Ganapati and other deities are also just a manifestation of Shiva. We are manifestations of Shiva. We are all and all the Absolute through and through. This is contentful knowledge I hope we awaken to this Ultimate Self our True Identity that is beyond name and Form.

  10. #10
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    Re: Worship without Dualism?

    namaste,

    I think i understand brahman. Perhaps this is what is discussed in Loving Ganesha where it says we lose our will to the Gods or God Ganesha in particular just surrendering it to him.
    Kindly note the correction in my previous note- read the sentence as “You kindly start worshiping them without expecting anything, thats a true sign of non-duality.” but since you understood the whole matter ,let me explain it further.

    I believe, worshiping many Gods(Demigods) is a practice Hindus are already accustomed with. That may have come as part of years of ritualistic practices, practiced over and over. What exactly is the fact behind this devotion? Or what might have led us to follow the practice? How many of us have tried to pose this question and find an answer?

    In reality, we need to comprehend one among the many, comprehend it in its entirety, and forfeit one’s mind to it. Remember, it’s a demanding affair, but certainly an endeavor that can be attained. If you closely examine, its our desire, our aspirations, our yearning to attain results of many kinds, or to satisfy our many requests, that makes us pay devotion to many Gods. Or we expect distinct results from each distinct form of the Lord. Our very nature always yearns for something. But, once the mind is free of those desires, and requests, and when nothing is left to have desire for or yearn for, then it becomes easy to pay attention with deep reverence to one form, and meditate upon that. Certainly at this stage, duality ends.

    When you are still concerned about which form of the Lord to be worshipped upon, it may be helpful to meditate upon that form, that personification of the Ultimate, which brings you peace at times of distress.

    Today you are experiencing the stage of “bhakti yoga”, which is the beginning of all yogas. Hereafter, keep trying to affirm in your mind, the form of God you have experienced now. Amazingly, faith, devotion, worship and love to this form will bring you rewards of peace and serenity, only to lead you to the state of blissful Samadhi.


    Also these quotes from the Holy Gita can be of help for your progress to the path of Brahman, the Transcendental Knowledge.


    Chapter 2: verse 29
    Some look on the soul as amazing, some describe him as amazing, and some hear of him as amazing, while others, even after hearing about him, (no one) cannot understand him at all.

    Chapter 4: verse 12
    Men in this world desire success in fruitive activities, and therefore they worship the demigods. Quickly, of course, men get results from fruitive work in this world.

    Chapter 7: verse 3
    Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.

    Very important (19- 23)

    Chapter 7: verse 19
    After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare.

    Chapter 7: verse 20
    Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures.

    Chapter 7: verse 21
    I am in everyone's heart as the Supersoul. As soon as one desires to worship some demigod, I make his faith steady so that he can devote himself to that particular deity.

    Chapter 7: verse 22
    Endowed with such a faith, he endeavors to worship a particular demigod and obtains his desires. But in actuality these benefits are bestowed by Me alone.

    Chapter 7: verse 23
    Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet.

    Gita is Brahman itself

    Brahman

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