An hindu tradition suitable for me

[orlando]

Namaste all.
I decided to leave Sri Vaishnavism.This religion doesn't appel to me.And I am really disappointend.
In Christianity you can see that a person is saved thanks to God's grace.Some Sri Vaishnavas told me that I can obtain moksha only by God'grace.
I think that the truth is very different.It seems that I must save my-self only though my own effort and thought the destruction of my humanity.
A Sri Vaishnava even told me that Lord Vishnu would be "forced" to punish me in order to destroy that karma accrued tought sins.And with the words "sins" that person was referring to material desires and not to sins like killing,etc.
In Catholicism God gives salvation both to a chaste priest and to married people that have a normal sexual life and satisfy material pleasure like go to the bar,go out in the evening,etc.
I noted that in Sri Vaishnava God gives Mokshna and judge you by what yo don't do.I did read about a woman that leaved Hare Krishna and became a christian for this same reason.
I mean that a person could living an austere life (not watching tv,sex only for procreation,etc) and yet to be a wicked person.Someone could be materialistic and yet to be a good person.
I consider Sri Vaishnava rules too extreme rules,particularly when one looks at other religions like Christianity.
I don't understand why after some hourses spended daily in spiritual activities I can't watch a film in the evening or play videogames,or listen to musics.
I considered the rule "sex only for procreation" an extreme rule.I feel that there is something wrong in the path I followed until some days ago.I am not insulting Sri Vaishnavism at all.And I am not saying that his rules are wrong.I am saying that in my heart I feel that there is something wrong.
I am not able to understand how Lord Vishnu may be mercyful while he doesn't give moksha unless a vaishnava reject all material pleasure.
This kind of life gave me mental problem.The psycologist where I go told me that in order to not "lose" my mind I need to go out with my friends.
In this time a friend of mine is very busy.But when I will see him,I will ask him if I can go go out in the evening with him and his friends.
As Sri Vaishnava I only builded an house of cards!THis spiritual path doesn't appeal to me.
I really understand that woman who leaved Hare Krishna and became a christian.She said the in Hare Krishsna religion one is judged by what one doesn't.I must say that this is true even in Sri Vaishnavism.I repeat that Sri Vaishnavism and general Vaishnavism really disappointed me.I am not sure that it is its fault.Probabily it is just a problem of mine.
Very probabily I will become a Shivaite.
I appreciated what Arjuna quoted about Shaivi Siddhanta.
Here is what Sri Subramunia Swami, a Guru of Shaiva-siddhanta's Nandinatha-parampara, writes:

"The purpose of sexual union is to express and foster love's beautiful intimacy and to draw husband and wife together for procreation. While offering community guidance, Hinduism does not legislate sexual matters. Aum.
Sexual intercourse is a natural reproductive function, a part of the instinctive nature, and its pleasures draw man and woman together that a child may be conceived. It also serves through its intimacy to express and nurture love. It is love which endows sexual intercourse with its higher qualities, transforming it from an animal function to a human fulfillment. Intensely personal matters of sex as they affect the family or individual are not legislated, but left to the judgment of those involved, subject to community laws and customs. Hinduism neither condones nor condemns birth control, sterilization, masturbation, homosexuality, petting, polygamy or pornography. It does not exclude or draw harsh conclusions against any part of human nature, though scripture prohibits adultery and forbids abortion except to save a mother's life. Advice in such matters should be sought from parents, elders and spiritual leaders. The only rigid rule is wisdom, guided by tradition and virtue. The Vedas beseech, "May all the divine powers together with the waters join our two hearts in one! May the Messenger, the Creator and holy Obedience unite us." Aum Namah Sivaya."

http://www.himalayanacademy.com/reso...andala-15.html

In Tirumantiram, a Shaiva-siddhanta Tamil holy text, it is written:

"19 PARIYANGA YOGA

825: Pleasures of Sex Union Will Abide
If Breath Control is Properly Practiced
Anointing her body with unguents diverse
Bedecking her tresses with flowers fragrant
Do you enjoy the damsel in passion's union;
If you but know how to shoot
Prana breath through the Spinal Cavity
Your enjoyment never ceases.
826: If Breath is Controlled Delicious Enjoyment
For Partners in Sex Union Results
When they seek enjoyment
The breath stands still;
The full breasted damsel and the goodly man
Stand in union exalted;
As liquid silver and gold
Their passion's emissions
In rapture commingles.
827: Duration of Enjoyment Lengthens
If Breath is Controlled
In the copulatory yoga that is practised
By the hero and the heroine
Upward they drive the coach of breath
That has its wheels in regions right and left;
There they collect the waters of the heaven
And never the organs tiring know."

http://www.himalayanacademy.com/reso...ntraThree.html

These quoted of course show that Shaivi-siddhanta spiritual lifestyle is more moderate that Sri Vaishnavism'lifestyle.

I consider right what Shri Bhakti yoga Seeker wrote in the thread procreation.
Passion CAN be an evil force for some but it can also be beneficial to others as well. I believe (through my OWN experiences) that you can combine material and spiritual energy and have positive results. I believe you can also use material enjoyment for spiritual purposes as well. Passion as with anything (good or bad) should be checked and balanced. As to the comment that sexual pleasure is no pleasure at all, this is completely delusional.

By http://www.hinduism.it/zzinduismo.htm
Purushartha , the four purposes of life
The principles which regulate the man's life in its becoming :
Their attainment aims at the realisation of a happy existence, satisfying the material and spiritual needs in harmony with the etich laws and in consideration of the ultimate purpose.

Dharma, the universal ethic order
The principle which harmonises the other purposes of life and represents the universal ethic laws which rule all the manifest universe.

Artha, the welfare
The realisation of the general welfare, related also to the material conditions and to the means necessary to maintain a good health and a satisfying social condition.

Kama, the desire
The desire which supports any action corresponding to dharma and an harmonious enjoyment of the sensory pleasures and the goods available.

Moksha, the liberation
The liberation from the cycle of incarnations and from the slavery of the ego, to recognise what we have always been, one in God and one with God.
The ultimate aim of life and achievement of a long journey of development is the recognition, which will be reached by all human beings, of their own divine nature or better that the only Reality beyond the illusoriness of the world, is God.

These internet quoted combine harmoniously the material and spiritual life.
I consider wrong the fact that after some hourses spended daily in spiritual activities I can't watch a film in the evening or play videogames,or listen to music.Sri Vaishnavism say that "lust" is very dangerous.The problem is that according to Sri Vaishnavism even making love (which is different from making sex) between married person and masturbation are "lust".These doctrine sounds a lot words spoken from zelous christian from mediaval age.!!
I am surprised to see that Sri Vaishnava didn't tell me that I will go to hell!!!

I can't continue to follow Sri Vaishnavism.
I repeat that in Catholicism God gives salvation both to a chaste priest and to married people that have a normal sexual life and satisfy material pleasure like go to the bar,go out in the evening,etc.
Sri Vaishnava's view are too much different.I hope the reades did understand what kind of hindu spiritual tradition I am looking for.
Please could someone tell me if Shaivism is suitable for me?
And exactly what shaivite tradiction should I follow?
Please note that I am not interested in monistic shaivism like Kashmir shivaism.I want to follow a devotional tradiction like Vira-Shaiva and Shaiva-Siddhanta.
Regards,
Orlando.

[satay]

Namaste all.
I decided to leave Sri Vaishnavism.This religion doesn't appel to me.And I am really disappointend.
Orlando.

namaste Orlando!

I am surprised to read your post and must admit that I am also sad to read it. Not sure why as it is all Bhagwan's leela.

You have to follow what your heart says. Sanatana Dharma is not a dogma; it is a way of life. I know it sounds like a cliche but it truly is a way of life.

You are being too hard on yourself and talking matters too seriously. Just apply the dharma to your life without all the nonsense and follow your heart. Don't worry about what others have to say (including me)...

[sarabhanga]

Namaste,

A great deal of confusion arises from the misunderstanding (and consequent rejection) of Varna or “Caste”. There is only one ultimate Truth, but Dharma is certainly not “one size fits all”.

Ahimsa and Brahmacarya are good examples, with some arguing from a Brahmana perspective, others from a Kshatriya perspective, and others from a general Vaishya perspective. And of course, all of these views are valid in their appropriate place and conditions.

Brahmana Dharma is rather strict, because a Brahman is supposed to have a high degree of understanding, and someone who surely knows the right way and yet turns away from that knowledge and follows the wrong path is the greatest “sinner” who will suffer for his foolish Adharma.

Shri Vaishnava is the most orthodox of all Vaishnava sects, and the perfect Shri Vaishnava is supposed to be the absolutely perfect Man. Of course perfection is the aim, and that is where scripture is trying to lead us.

If Moksha is defined as release from material attachment, how can one possibly attain Moksha while holding fast to material desires?

But if you remain attached to life and all its pleasures, what is the problem if you are NEVER released from the cycle of life? Surely that is what you would most desire! And so long as you remain attached you will repeatedly return to your beloved worldly existence.

All that is born, however, must necessarily die, and repeated birth (with all of its enjoyment) must involve repeated death (with all of its suffering). And, from a Hindu perspective, that endless cycle alone is the only “Hell”.

[sarabhanga]

And, of course, then we have added confusion that arises from misunderstanding of Ashrama and Samskara (i.e. the various stages of life and the defining moments between them).

With the opposition of married life vs unmarried life comes the consideration of sexual actions, which again provides two quite different perspectives for Dharma ~ and much more confusion for those who reject all of the ancient Hindu traditions of Varna and Ashrama and Samskara!

1. There is only one simple Dharma for all those of the Shudra Varna.
2. There are two stages of Dharma for the Vaishya ~ unmarried student and married householder ~ each with their own particular spiritual and social expectations.
3. There are three stages for the Kshatriya, with an additional expectation of final seclusion from worldly affairs as a Vanaprasthin.
4. And for the Brahmana Varna only there are four defined stages of life, culminating in Sannyasa.

And 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10

So that Sanatana Dharma has always encompassed TEN different modes of Dharma ~ one for each of those 10 Lords of Airavata ~ and this fundamental diversity should always be remembered in any consideration of Dharma in practice.

[Bhakti Yoga Seeker]

Namaste all.
I decided to leave Sri Vaishnavism.This religion doesn't appel to me.And I am really disappointend.
In Christianity you can see that a person is saved thanks to God's grace.Some Sri Vaishnavas told me that I can obtain moksha only by God'grace.
I think that the truth is very different.It seems that I must save my-self only though my own effort and thought the destruction of my humanity.
A Sri Vaishnava even told me that Lord Vishnu would be "forced" to punish me in order to destroy that karma accrued tought sins.And with the words "sins" that person was referring to material desires and not to sins like killing,etc.
In Catholicism God gives salvation both to a chaste priest and to married people that have a normal sexual life and satisfy material pleasure like go to the bar,go out in the evening,etc.
I noted that in Sri Vaishnava God gives Mokshna and judge you by what yo don't do.I did read about a woman that leaved Hare Krishna and became a christian for this same reason.
I mean that a person could living an austere life (not watching tv,sex only for procreation,etc) and yet to be a wicked person.Someone could be materialistic and yet to be a good person.
I consider Sri Vaishnava rules too extreme rules,particularly when one looks at other religions like Christianity.
I don't understand why after some hourses spended daily in spiritual activities I can't watch a film in the evening or play videogames,or listen to musics.
I considered the rule "sex only for procreation" an extreme rule.I feel that there is something wrong in the path I followed until some days ago.I am not insulting Sri Vaishnavism at all.And I am not saying that his rules are wrong.I am saying that in my heart I feel that there is something wrong.
I am not able to understand how Lord Vishnu may be mercyful while he doesn't give moksha unless a vaishnava reject all material pleasure.
This kind of life gave me mental problem.The psycologist where I go told me that in order to not "lose" my mind I need to go out with my friends.
In this time a friend of mine is very busy.But when I will see him,I will ask him if I can go go out in the evening with him and his friends.
As Sri Vaishnava I only builded an house of cards!THis spiritual path doesn't appeal to me.
I really understand that woman who leaved Hare Krishna and became a christian.She said the in Hare Krishsna religion one is judged by what one doesn't.I must say that this is true even in Sri Vaishnavism.I repeat that Sri Vaishnavism and general Vaishnavism really disappointed me.I am not sure that it is its fault.Probabily it is just a problem of mine.
Very probabily I will become a Shivaite.
I appreciated what Arjuna quoted about Shaivi Siddhanta.

[...]

These internet quoted combine harmoniously the material and spiritual life.
I consider wrong the fact that after some hourses spended daily in spiritual activities I can't watch a film in the evening or play videogames,or listen to music.Sri Vaishnavism say that "lust" is very dangerous.The problem is that according to Sri Vaishnavism even making love (which is different from making sex) between married person and masturbation are "lust".These doctrine sounds a lot words spoken from zelous christian from mediaval age.!!
I am surprised to see that Sri Vaishnava didn't tell me that I will go to hell!!!

[...]

I can't continue to follow Sri Vaishnavism.
I repeat that in Catholicism God gives salvation both to a chaste priest and to married people that have a normal sexual life and satisfy material pleasure like go to the bar,go out in the evening,etc.
Sri Vaishnava's view are too much different.I hope the reades did understand what kind of hindu spiritual tradition I am looking for.
Please could someone tell me if Shaivism is suitable for me?
And exactly what shaivite tradiction should I follow?
Please note that I am not interested in monistic shaivism like Kashmir shivaism.I want to follow a devotional tradiction like Vira-Shaiva and Shaiva-Siddhanta.
Regards,
Orlando.

I am glad you have seen that moderation is the key to spiritual life. It is entirely your choice which spiritual path to follow as well as make up your own. You don't have to follow a particular tradition. I think part of the problem with religion when it tries to separate the spiritual and the material is that it fails to understand what they really are. They view such things on a one-dimensional surface. Certain key activities will be "material" while others will be "spiritual" and others are in between. This is not the case because anything that exists on the physical plane in the universe is by definition material. What makes something spiritual is how one sees, understands, uses, and appreciates the material.

Such understanding is dangerous to society and organized religion because it quickly breaks down barriers. It is difficult to explain in words but it is something you feel and know in your heart. It is not what you see and experience but the way that you see it and how you absorb your experience. Certain aspects of the material world can be seen as higher or lower but that doesn't make them wrong. Sex, intoxicants, and entertainment are seen as lower desires but if done from a higher perspective, they can have more value than when done by those from a lower perspective. It is still hard to explain in words but it is not so much the "what" of the things you do but instead is the "why" and the "how." I think the key word here is consciousness. One million people can all do the same activity but they will each be doing it from higher or lower consciousnesses. The higher the consciousness the more you are able to see the truth and falsehoods of what you witness and experience as well as understand how valuable and bogus things are depending on what these activities are.

I consider myself a spiritually-oriented person yet most people fail to understand where I come from on even the most basic things. That is because people are so saturated and brainwashed by labels. They see chanting as religion and alcohol as fun, movies as entertainment and labor for a paycheck, sex for instant enjoyment and meditation as a sleep-inducing agent. Such understandings are not right or wrong but they are incredibly limited and are on a first-grade level so to speak. So when one person engages in a number of activites that people see as direct opposites, they cannot understand. That is because people generally do not understand what moderation means. It is really annoying because it is difficult surviving in a society where people are so overwhelmingly controlled by labels, barriers, and limitations that when a myth-buster and truth-seeker such as me comes along, it forces them to re-evaluate themselves. I think that probably one of the best ways to find the truth, realize your self, and know God is to clear and free your mind. Our minds are overcluttered by what society is and is not and what is right and wrong.

Imagine that suddenly society just disappeared and the only living thing on the planet was you and you could not be physically killed for a temporary amount of time. Essentially you would be fully in control of your thoughts, feelings, and physical state. Nobody or nothing could tell you what was right or wrong or deny what you were experiencing. The fact is that people can still choose what they believe and what is best for them but instead they allow themselves to be manipulated by other people through large institutions such as religion, government, and culture. I didn't mean to go on so much but I was surprised by your article which was a sudden change in you. In order to give you more of an idea on how I feel on these matters, I will reveal some personal information about myself which others with small minds and who are victims of society-induced mind control may hold against me on these forums.

I have been a caring person for as long as I can remember. I am not trying to brag that I have some kind of virtues but I have always had a deep empathy for people who I have felt are oppressed in one way or another. I have also tried to assist these people endlessly and mostly by just lending a listening ear and providing the best words of wisdom that I can think of at the time. On the other hand I have been a fighter and a rebel for many years, not in the violent sense but in that I have had a passion for seeking and speaking the truth and busting falsehoods and destroying myths. Unfortunately but not surprisingly I will often be in the minority due to the fact that it is apparent that most people don't want the truth and would prefer to live in the illusory and superficial world they built based on fear. I have little fear over "fitting in" and will continue to think for myself and make up my own mind unlike most people and live what I believe is the truth regardless of the fact that millions or even billions may disagree.

I also believe strongly in ahimsa and ahimsa in the real sense. People have a duty to treat others decently and fairly and oppose oppression and injustice wherever it is found. It is a duty to spread love around and do the right thing. Supporting ahimsa also means that I support peace as well as violence in their proper contexts. This is something most people fail to understand. Ahimsa doesn't mean "peace" and it doesn't oppose "violence." It essentially means learning to do the right thing to others so that people can suffer less and experience more.

I also chant regularly and do meditation. I also go for walks late and night for excersize and to clear my mind from the day's garbage usually filled up by others around me who have a poor understanding on who they are and why they are here. I am also a vegetarian, I watch movies from time to time, I give to the needy, I hold a typical 40-hour per week job, go to bars occasionally with friends for a little relaxation and silliness, and I also regularly smoke ganja mostly for meditative and spiritual purposes. Most people cannot figure me out because all these apparent contrasting lifestyles. Such people have a mental failure because they don't understand that I am not the body, not the material world, and most of all none of these things or my very existence on this planet define who I am. In other words, none of those things define who I am.

If this post means anything to you, it is that only you can figure out who you are and what the truth is that you wish to live by. People will come and go by the millions eager to tell you what is right and wrong, how to live your life, what you should and should not do. You have to remember though that the life you live on this planet and everything you do here does NOT define who you are. Life is a moving theater and you are the stage. The characters come and go, the costumes change, the lighting gets brighter and darker, moods change, and a multitude of events pass on from one scene to the next but the stage remains the same nonetheless. Even though the entire play is just an act and that it is not real, it appears real to the audience and almost seems real to the actors. I believe that it is our goal to use what is on life's stage in the proper manners to find out who we really are, to know God, and to realize the Truth. Obviously what is proper for one person will not necessarily be proper for another. There is no such thing as one shoe that fits all despite what popular opinion says.

Namaskaar and good luck. ~BYS~

[Bhakti Yoga Seeker]

namaste Orlando!

I am surprised to read your post and must admit that I am also sad to read it. Not sure why as it is all Bhagwan's leela.

You have to follow what your heart says. Sanatana Dharma is not a dogma; it is a way of life. I know it sounds like a cliche but it truly is a way of life.

You are being too hard on yourself and talking matters too seriously. Just apply the dharma to your life without all the nonsense and follow your heart. Don't worry about what others have to say (including me)...

The problem arises when other people interfere with your spiritual progress. You cannot always ignore people and this is the problem that I run into. People are often downright demonic and sinister and ever ready to crucify others at any cost. The second you live a lifestyle different from others, sooner or later someone sends their attack dogs on you. I am speaking metaphorically of course. Basically what I am saying is that even though Sanatana Dharma is a way of life, institutions such as temples and other congregations of people will impose their values on you and attempt to manipulate, control, and criticize you to their liking. For instance just recently I visited an ISKCON temple. I am the kind of person that still gives people the benefit of the doubt no matter how many times they do something wrong. The madness with kids screaming, etc. was there as usual and when I finally did meditate, a number of people interrupted and asked if I could do some seva. When I asked them if they would be willing to spend 10 minutes of their time answering some scriptural questions I had in exchange for one hour of mopping the floor and washing the dishes, they basically explained that it doesn't work that way and went on about how one must chant, read Prabhupada's books, and refrain from sex, drugs, etc. In other words just more control and manipulation over your private life without actually helping you.

So how does someone such as Orlando live a spiritual lifestyle that works for him and fit into Hindu society at the same time? That is something I am still struggling with. If I tell group A that I go out and drink, they accept me but when I tell them I'm a vegetarian, they jump back. Then I tell group B that I'm a vegetarian and they tell me how "enlightened" I am until I mention the alcohol and they have mysteriously vanished. So how can Orlando find that spiritual path and live by it when everyone tells him to dance and sing just like everyone else? ~BYS~

[Bhakti Yoga Seeker]

Namaste,

A great deal of confusion arises from the misunderstanding (and consequent rejection) of Varna or “Caste”. There is only one ultimate Truth, but Dharma is certainly not “one size fits all”.

Ahimsa and Brahmacarya are good examples, with some arguing from a Brahmana perspective, others from a Kshatriya perspective, and others from a general Vaishya perspective. And of course, all of these views are valid in their appropriate place and conditions.

Brahmana Dharma is rather strict, because a Brahman is supposed to have a high degree of understanding, and someone who surely knows the right way and yet turns away from that knowledge and follows the wrong path is the greatest “sinner” who will suffer for his foolish Adharma.

Shri Vaishnava is the most orthodox of all Vaishnava sects, and the perfect Shri Vaishnava is supposed to be the absolutely perfect Man. Of course perfection is the aim, and that is where scripture is trying to lead us.

If Moksha is defined as release from material attachment, how can one possibly attain Moksha while holding fast to material desires?

But if you remain attached to life and all its pleasures, what is the problem if you are NEVER released from the cycle of life? Surely that is what you would most desire! And so long as you remain attached you will repeatedly return to your beloved worldly existence.

All that is born, however, must necessarily die, and repeated birth (with all of its enjoyment) must involve repeated death (with all of its suffering). And, from a Hindu perspective, that endless cycle alone is the only “Hell”.

I generally disagree. This still comes down to forcing spiritual seekers into various groups for the purpose of controlling what they can and cannot do with their lives. Obviously I think that group think can have its benefits because people are social creatures and people need positive association from other people. I just don't understand why spiritual seekers have to constantly be boxed in groups and have their behavior and beliefs modulated. You mentioned four specific groups (in past posts) and described what behavior Groups A, B, C, and D should and should not do. In today's case you also referred to material attachment but left out the concept of the possibility of people engaging in materialistic activities without being attached to them. Again, I don't understand this group and label think where you can either do activity A or activity B and nobody can grasp the possibility of other activites that don't fit into either A or B. Either you are spiritual and refrain from all material activites or you engage in material activites and avoid spiritual life. What if Orlando wishes to use both and without being attached to the materialism?

I responded this way because it sounds like Orlando is trying to progress spiritually and has found barriers, labels, and group modulation to be inhibitors. Your response started out immediately imposing more of those barriers, labels, and group-control with the mention of the varna system. I don't know why I didn't realize this stuff myself earlier but it seems to me that it is all wrong. The real progress comes when you stop blindly doing what everyone else wants you to do and start making up your own mind and thinking for yourself. Maybe what will work best for Orlando would be a blend of all four castes or varnas instead of just forcing himself into one particular group of mind control. ~BYS~

[Bhakti Yoga Seeker]

And, of course, then we have added confusion that arises from misunderstanding of Ashrama and Samskara (i.e. the various stages of life and the defining moments between them).

With the opposition of married life vs unmarried life comes the consideration of sexual actions, which again provides two quite different perspectives for Dharma ~ and much more confusion for those who reject all of the ancient Hindu traditions of Varna and Ashrama and Samskara!

1. There is only one simple Dharma for all those of the Shudra Varna.
2. There are two stages of Dharma for the Vaishya ~ unmarried student and married householder ~ each with their own particular spiritual and social expectations.
3. There are three stages for the Kshatriya, with an additional expectation of final seclusion from worldly affairs as a Vanaprasthin.
4. And for the Brahmana Varna only there are four defined stages of life, culminating in Sannyasa.

And 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10

So that Sanatana Dharma has always encompassed TEN different modes of Dharma ~ one for each of those 10 Lords of Airavata ~ and this fundamental diversity should always be remembered in any consideration of Dharma in practice.

If Sanatana Dharma is indeed a way of life and not a dogmatic religion, then you are incorrect. You mention about people who reject ancient traditions as being "confused." What confuses me is why otherwise intelligent people are incapable of living a spiritual life and having a moral foundation that is independently formed and free from group think and mind control. You mention how married and unmarried life has two different perspectives. Why only two? Why not millions of different perspectives? Then you mention the varnas and how they each have 1, 2, 3, and 4 different dharmic paths respectively. I wasn't aware that all of human civilization and particularly those seeking a spiritual lifestyle have to do what everyone else does. I thought that we had enough brains to think for ourselves and make up our own minds. You can repeat yourself if you wish but you are incorrect. Imposing limitations on how people can live life, what they can believe, and assigning labels based on what system of group think and behavior they match closest to is not helping anyone spiritually progress. There are not ten dharmic paths as you say. There are unlimited dharmic paths. Sanatana Dharma is not like Christianity where it is my way or the highway. One person's spiritual path and lifestyle can be different from another person's and they can still reach the goal.

It is time to see Hindus and others trying to expand their horizons rather than limiting them. ~BYS~

[Sudarshan]

Namaste Orlando,

Not a bad decision. It is not easy to be a true Srivaishnava, and yes it does expect perfection to be referred so. It is always better to follow one's own instincts than to follow something that you are not capable of.

But dont get under the false impression that any religion or path can lead easily to moksha than any other. Sri Sarabhanga mentioned that clearly - the total absence of material desires alone lead to moksha - rest lead only to mundane existance. Dont take that lightly just because you "beleive" differently.

Whichever religions encourage any form of materialism are not directed at the highest goal of life, but at some intermediate goal like heaven or some rich kingly births which do not have permanent value. And that is what you will get.

God's grace is paramount, dont underestimate it. Even those enlightened souls will tell you that - never think you can do anything by efforts alone, though an effort is certainly needed.

Christianity may appeal to offer some easy tickets but who told you they are aimed at the goal of moksha the Hindu way? They only lead to svarga - which is a place of return to embodied existance. Since Christianity does not preach reincarnation, they either have to condemn people to hell or push the rest to heaven - no middle ground. In Hinduism, perfection alone leads to moksha irrespective of what one beleives. The rest will grow in stages over many incarnations until they reach there one day. No excuses or short cuts for anybody.

This material world will give you NOTHING even in the short run(leave alone the long run). Dont turn away from real spiritualism for satisfying a few material desires of yours. Dont mix much with materialistic people as they will lead you further away - mix a lot of other devotees and they will instill you with the strength and show you the right way. Dont even listen to those people who encourage you with some materialism because they are doing the worst possible thing to you. Do you know that smokers always entice others to smole? Alcoholcs entice others with it? Materialist people wil take you down along with them. Be fore warred!

Good luck to you! Srivaishnavas have no reason to force people to follow it and you cannot be a true Srivaishnavite easily. But they do not have to dilute laws to entice people like Christianity. That does not mean there is any short cut available anywhere else. You may follow whatvever you want, but the path must be devoid of materialsm and God only faith - else liberation is not possible, no matter what you think or beleive in. Material desires lead only to material existance!

[orlando]

namaste Orlando!

I am surprised to read your post and must admit that I am also sad to read it. Not sure why as it is all Bhagwan's leela.

You have to follow what your heart says. Sanatana Dharma is not a dogma; it is a way of life. I know it sounds like a cliche but it truly is a way of life.

You are being too hard on yourself and talking matters too seriously. Just apply the dharma to your life without all the nonsense and follow your heart. Don't worry about what others have to say (including me)...

Namaste Satay.
My heart say that Sri Vaishnava lifestyle ruined my mind.That psycologosit helped me to understand this.
I talked about this even with my mother.
Regards,
Orlando.