View of Western Meateaters

[Penumbra]

Hi everyone.

I'm curious as to how people here perceive those who eat meat, especially those who are from western religions that generally have never been taught that eating meat is wrong. Do you view them as immoral, accumulating bad karma? Or do you view them as well-intentioned but ignorant? Or something else?

Thanks for any responses!

-Lyn

(I'm a non-religious westerner and a vegetarian, mainly for environmental, health, and ethical reasons.)

[Eastern Mind]

Not necessarily well intentioned, but ignorant, yes. Accruing karma? Yes, but not as much as those who should know better. I'd rather befriend a generous meat eater than a pompous greedy adulterous vegetarian any day. Vegetarianism is just one aspect of the dharma. There is a lot more.

Thanks for the questions. I know they are making me think a little. (or a lot.) I'm sure others feel the same way. May I ask why, as you consider yourself non-religious, are you asking?

Aum Namasivaya

[TatTvamAsi]

Your reasons for being vegetarian are no different than Hindus' themselves. Except, vegetarianism has been practiced by Hindus for thousands of years and is incorporated into the philosophy.

As to perception of those who eat meat, west or east, is simple:

Vegetarianism is civilized and non-vegetarianism is not.

Except, again, I don't know why americans like to worship dogs?!? I always thought if I was a meat eater a nice puppy sandwich would be quite tasty! Why the bigotry towards other animals (cows, chickens, sheep, pigs etc.)?

Of course, this is in jest to get you dog-lovers to realize how "nasty" it is to eat an animal; cute or otherwise!

Hi everyone.

I'm curious as to how people here perceive those who eat meat, especially those who are from western religions that generally have never been taught that eating meat is wrong. Do you view them as immoral, accumulating bad karma? Or do you view them as well-intentioned but ignorant? Or something else?

Thanks for any responses!

-Lyn

(I'm a non-religious westerner and a vegetarian, mainly for environmental, health, and ethical reasons.)

[OmSriShivaShakti]

I eat meat of many kinds including beef, but I do not think it is forbidden in Hinduism. I think that since people are by nature omnivorous, vegetarianism would simply be going against nature.

Except, again, I don't know why americans like to worship dogs?!? I always thought if I was a meat eater a nice puppy sandwich would be quite tasty! Why the bigotry towards other animals (cows, chickens, sheep, pigs etc.)?

I have found myself thinking the same thing. I think the reason is that in Western religions such as Christianity certain things are regarded as absolutely good or absolutely evil, so certain animals like snakes come to represent evil in those faiths and other animals such as lamb in the case of Christianity come to represent good and innocence. Another reason would be that pet-owners develop emotional attachments and relationships to their pets which they would never break and as a result, they see their pets as something better than just another animal.

[Eastern Mind]

May i suggest you read the previous threads on vegetarianism. No poing seeing this movie again.

Aum Namasivaya

[Penumbra]

Thanks for the replies.

Thanks for the questions. I know they are making me think a little. (or a lot.) I'm sure others feel the same way. May I ask why, as you consider yourself non-religious, are you asking?

Aum Namasivaya

I like learning about religions and cultures, and trying to understand how various people come to view our world. I've read some holy texts such as the Qur'an, Bhagavad Gita, and the Bible, and have taken classes on religious studies, but nothing substitutes for getting out there and talking to people. Most people I know don't know a thing about eastern religions, but I'm interested in learning about as many viewpoints as possible.

Except, again, I don't know why americans like to worship dogs?!? I always thought if I was a meat eater a nice puppy sandwich would be quite tasty! Why the bigotry towards other animals (cows, chickens, sheep, pigs etc.)?

Of course, this is in jest to get you dog-lovers to realize how "nasty" it is to eat an animal; cute or otherwise!

I agree. It's very inconsistent. People would be horrified if their pet was killed but think nothing of their dinner.

I have found myself thinking the same thing. I think the reason is that in Western religions such as Christianity certain things are regarded as absolutely good or absolutely evil, so certain animals like snakes come to represent evil in those faiths and other animals such as lamb in the case of Christianity come to represent good and innocence.

I don't think that's the case for most Christians. Maybe some fundamentalists think like that, but none that I have personally met thought that snakes are evil. My dad's a Christian and he bought me a pet snake when I was little.

I think your second point about developing an emotional attachment is the real reason.

-Lyn

[OmSriShivaShakti]

Yes, I did mean for the second point to be emphasized, sorry if that wasn't clear. But I was just trying to contrast the two faiths because of the monism in Hinduism vs. the distinct good/evil in Abrahamic faiths such as Christianity.

[Penumbra]

Yes, I did mean for the second point to be emphasized, sorry if that wasn't clear. But I was just trying to contrast the two faiths because of the monism in Hinduism vs. the distinct good/evil in Abrahamic faiths such as Christianity.

Yes I agree there. Abrahamic religions tend to have a very black-and-white view of the world.

-Lyn

[connyxoberst]

this is a topic i've been struggling with for a while. i understand that it is viewed as bad karma to slaughter and kill animals and i understand the hows and whys of vegetarianism in hinduism. however, there are some key points that stick out to me at least on a common sense level that confuse me.
i understand that killing animals and other living beings brings on negative energies and therefore negative karma [oh the lesson i was just taught last week with flies, so frustrating] which is why i think that hunting for sport or to just kill for the sake of killing is completely inexcusable and disgusting. i also find the conditions that animals are kept on farms for mass production food is horrific and the use of hormones in said animals are screwing with our development in ways scientists wont be able to recognize for years to come.
that being said, i do not view animals souls as being on the same level as humans. i also dont believe that the reincarnation process includes animals and especially not plants. unless a specific lesson needs to be learned and an exception has to be made. i can be open to a human soul needing to learn the patience of a redwood tree or something like that. but still i feel like humans come and go as humans and animals as animals for the most part.
i feel as though when humans were brought into existence we were set apart to be able to follow dharma in all forms. i believe we were given an intellect set aside for only us, no other being on the planet has our abilities. but i do believe that the way of thinking we're meant to master and follow comes subconsciously to the beings that cannot think for themselves.
i'm sure everyone can agree that within our world the natural state of everything is to be perfectly balanced. the herbivore eats the plants, the carnivore eats the herbivore, and when the carnivore dies it becomes the plants that the herbivore eats. without the carnivores the herbivores would become so over populated there wouldnt be enough plants on earth and everything would be thrown off balance.
the natural make up of a lion for example depends on the nutrients only found in meats to keep its body moving and growing naturally. same with the herbivore. its body is made to run off plant fibers to achieve growth and energy.
since the beginning of time, man has been an omnivore. depending on both plants and animals to sustain growth. our body is naturally dependent on both. i think if all man stopped consuming meat, the natural balance of the world would be so far thrown off that in a couple decades, we wouldn't even recognize it.
i believe that two people walking side by side can both step on a tiny ant at the same time and only one of them receives the bad karma attached to the action. the one who intentionally stepped on the ant, wanting to kill it would receive the consequential karma, not his companion who didn't even realize the ant was there.
i believe that there are two things surrounding meat consumption that would result in bad karma:
1. eating an animal that you brutally killed, or wasting the flesh of an animal that died for your purpose
2. believing in your heart that it is wrong. for even if it isnt, you are calling to the universe to bring bad energy because of it.

does this make sense?

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca
panditah sama-darsinah


An enlightened person, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste].
(5.18)

that being said, i do not view animals souls as being on the same level as humans. i also dont believe that the reincarnation process includes animals and especially not plants.

Hindu scripture does not support your view.

but still i feel like humans come and go as humans and animals as animals for the most part.

rebirth is not of the species but the soul, according to its desires.

without the carnivores the herbivores would become so over populated there wouldnt be enough plants on earth and everything would be thrown off balance.

this is rubbish, the law of jungle takes care for itself,

only human with its insatiable desire to taste the meat has brought the imbalance and in the process killing off the environment.

does this make sense?

　
　
Not really, although you have every right to have your view, they are not backed by any scriptures or even humanity. We can feel the pain if we were to witness the cruel end of this animals.

Different bodies are simply like different vehicle on the road but what matters is the driver in them.

Living force within all being is the same, only difference is the level of consciousness

We see all living being"equally" because the paramatma is situated in all of their hearts, .
Seeing the oneness of all living entities is to see the paramatma and the atma, who is the true living entity in the body.



Ideally no living life should be killed (ahimsa), but the shastra says all life lives at the expense of another's life. Even if you are vegetarian, you must take the life of so many plants to sustain your body.

According to the development of consciousness, pain is experienced by different forms of life differently. It is more sinful to harm those life forms that have developed higher conscious awareness, as their suffering will be greater. According to the scriptures, plants have the lowest conscious awareness, and therefore it is much less sinful to take the life of a plant over a human (or cow, dog, chicken, etc.). Still sin will be involved, but the harm caused is much less than the harm caused to a fully conscious living entity.

The scriptures also state that cows have the highest conscious awareness of all life forms prior to the human species. Thus of all animals it is the most sinful to hurt a cow. In addition to this, cows and bulls are given special status as they are considered our mother and father. If your mother or father was killed, it would not be unreasonable for you to protest it.

Jai Shree Krishna