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Thread: Krishna The Supreme Godhead

  1. #11
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    Re: Krishna The Supreme Godhead

    I found this definition

    Parabrahman (Sanskrit) [from para beyond + Brahman (neuter) universal self or spirit]

    That which is beyond Brahman; the self-enduring, eternal, self-sufficient cause of all, the one essence of everything in the kosmos. It is before all things in the kosmos, and is the one sole limitless life-consciousness-substance from which starts into existence a center of force which may be called the Logos. In the Vedic cycle of writing it is referred to as tat (that) as opposed to the world of manifestation called idam (this).

    http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/...hman/id/135452

  2. #12
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    Re: Krishna The Supreme Godhead

    The term 'parabrahman' does not indicate something beyond Brahman; 'para' as the attribute belongs to Brahman in the sense that Brahman is 'supreme, beyond definition'.

    So there is no simple definition of Brahman except that it is 'nirguNa' (without attributes--the attributes that we ascribe are for our own comprehension). Below are some of the approaches by our Smriti (Vedas, Upanishads) towards knowing Brahman:

    satyam, jnAnam, anantam Brahma(n) -- Taittiriya Upanishad

    Here 'satyam' denotes that Brahman is the eternal Truth; 'jnAnam' denotes that Brahman is not inert but active consciousness; 'anantam' means that Brahman is not localized in Heaven but infinite.

    a-dvayam, a-dvaitami, a-dvidtiiyam -- Chandogya (6.2.1,6.2.2), Kaivalya (19,23), Brhadaranyaka (4.3.22), Mandukya (7)

    That is, "Brahman is One without a second." This statements is expanded in Mandukya Upanishad mantra 7:

    "It (Brahman) is not the inward awareness. It is not the outward awareness. It is not the intermediate awareness. It is not the undifferentiated mass of awareness. It is not the knowing awareness. It is not non-awareness. It is unperceivable. It is not accessible to transaction. It cannot be grasped. It is attributeless. It is not accessible to thought. It is not amenable to communication. It is the substratum of the I thought. It is the remainder of the negation (annulment) of the universe. It is changeless. It is auspiciousness. It is the nondual reality. …… That is 'AtmA'.

    (na antah-prajnam, na bahih-prajnam, na ubhyatah-prajnam, na prajaana-ghanam na prajnam na aprajnam; adrshtam avyavahaaryam agraahyam alakshanam acintyam avyapadesyam ekatma-pratyaya-saaram prapancopasamam saantam sivam advaitams......sa atma)

    • "Subtler than the than the subtlest, greater than the greatest." "Nearer than the nearest, farther than the farthest …… unmoving moving everywhere." -- Kathopanishad I.ii.20, I.ii.21

    Brahman is not just a flesh-incarnated avatar of God, not the Holy Ghost or the Father God but in and beyond them all. Brahman is not just in heaven but everywhere, unmoving in nature but moving everything in the world.

    • "He is all pervasive, pure, bodiless, without wound, without sinews, taintless, untouched by sin, omniscient, ruler of mind, transcendent, and self-existent." -- Isavasya Upanishad 8

    • Finally, Chandogya Upanishad (6.8.7), cryptically summarizes Brahman into three words: tat tvam asi -- That You Are. And you will know it when you realize, "aham brahmAsmi" -- I am Brahman.

    This NirguNa Brahman cannot be worshipped, only meditated. When It takes a form it becomes SaguNa Brahman, starting with the Hindu TrimUrtis--the Godforms we worship.

    Hindu scriptures refer to Brahman by the term 'Brahma', which is not to be confused with BrahmA, the Creator God among the TrimUrtis.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  3. #13
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    Re: Krishna The Supreme Godhead

    That is a really good explanation, Saidevoji.

    However, imo, it is not "ParaBrahman" but "ParamBrahman" : "Para" means beyond whereas "Param" means Supreme.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  4. #14
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    Re: Krishna The Supreme Godhead

    Namaste,

    Saidevo thank you for that wonderful explanation. Brahman it appears can only be experienced and not conceived through the intellect.

    OM
    -juan

  5. #15
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    Re: Krishna The Supreme Godhead

    Namaste Devotee.

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    However, imo, it is not "ParaBrahman" but "ParamBrahman" : "Para" means beyond whereas "Param" means Supreme.
    'parama' (not 'param') means 'supreme, highest, greatest, excellent'.

    The term 'param' is, I think, is the singular objective case of 'para', just like 'rAmam' and 'rAmaH'. 'para' has both the meanings of 'beyond' and 'supreme' and their derivatives.

    SS, Brahman is intellectually known, devotionally felt and experientially realized--as the very Self immanent in us and all other beings. Knowing it intellectually is 'jnAna', devotionally is 'bhakti' and experientially is 'samAdhi'.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  6. #16
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    Re: Krishna The Supreme Godhead

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    Namasté

    I would like to offer a POV if I may regarding para, parā (some write parA) and parama. I look to the help of Monier Williams Sanskrit-English Dictionary (2002 and 2008 revision) and a few few other reference books and gleam the following:
    With parā परा or para पर we see it defined as far , distant , remote (in space) , opposite , ulterior , farther than , beyond , on the other or farther side of , extreme ; previous (in time) , former ; ancient , past ; later , future , next ;exceeding (in number or degree) , more than.

    Yet we see this also as any chief matter or paramount object having as the chief object , given up to , occupied with , engrossed in , intent upon , resting on , consisting of , serving for. Lets add an 'm' to para and get param परम्- and we get simular definitions.

    Note that all are rooted in p which IMHO links all of the words just discussed. This phas several meanings:
    to bring over or to bring out of , deliver from, rescue , save , protect , escort , further , promote.
    What then of parama परम( a noun and superlative of para) is chief , highest , primary , most prominent or conspicuous yet is also most distant , remotest , extreme i.e. the highest point , extreme limit, in the highest degree.

    As I see it it fits nicely with para+brahman परब्रह्मन् - the Supreme. Now some would say are you applying this to brahman ? brahma or brahmā ? We can leave this for now and see if my post ( and the others above) are in concert with each other on the notion of para, parā and parama.

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  7. #17
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    Re: Krishna The Supreme Godhead

    SS, Brahman is intellectually known, devotionally felt and experientially realized--as the very Self immanent in us and all other beings. Knowing it intellectually is 'jnAna', devotionally is 'bhakti' and experientially is 'samAdhi'.
    Namaste,

    Nicely said. I wish I could truely practice what I want to and stop getting caught up in my ego.



    On another note I have been reading KRSNA The Supreme Personality of Godhead and I am getting a bad vibe from Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. On pg32-33 of the book he says:

    "For persons who are not very advanced in absolute knowledge of the Supreme, Lord Krsna exhibits his Transcendental pasttimes. Such persons can simply think of the pastimes of the Lord and get full benefit. Since there is no difference between the transcendental name and form of the Lord, there is no difference between the transcendental pastimes and the form of the Lord. For those who are less intelligent (like women, laborers, or the mercantile class), the great sage Vyasedeva wrot in Mahabharata."


    This seems rather sexest for me. I have heard already the many arguments Muslims made in defense of their sexest views. Now I am not blaming the beautiful Sanatana Dharma nor the Vaishnava path, but the author seems a bit sexest. I just hope Vaishnavas and Shaivites do not share his views that women are defficient in intelligents like Muhammad viewed them.

  8. #18
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    Re: Krishna The Supreme Godhead

    BUMP!

  9. #19
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    Re: Krishna The Supreme Godhead

    SS: There is ongoing debate here and elsewhere on whether or not Sri Prabhulapada was a mysogynist (sp?) or not. As you know, the translations and commentaries on any sacred works differ widely. If it offends you, then in my opinion, that is a good thing. But all such comments are debatable in the ntellectual realms. I think you can see it (gender discrimination) better in actions, and in emotions. Sometimes it is just a clearer definition of gender roles, and a cultural sense of keeping apart for mental purity reasons. There is wisdom is single gender monasteries obviously. Happy exploring this issue.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Krishna The Supreme Godhead

    Namaste,

    Thanks EM. So it seems this has been an issue. I have heard the many statements on why it is said women are deficient in intelligence, but I just dont buy it especially when it comes to Enlightenment. It was said buddha himself originally thought enlightenment was just for men but upon his awakening knew it was for everyone.

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