Krishna The Supreme Godhead

[Eastern Mind]

SS: In my opinion, a misogynist will surely be reborn as a woman. I mean, do we believe in karma and reincarnation, or not? Is it a reality, or just some intellectual concept that may or may not be true? You're getting me going now, lol. Enlightenment is no intellectual concept.

Lets try to describe the feel of riding a motorcycle down the empty road with the wind blowing across your face, and the smell of jasmine mixed with diesel coming through those nostrils.

Then jump on your friends bike and ride down the roads of India for half an hour.

You tell me which event will stick with you.

Aum Namasivaya

[Spiritualseeker]

Haha well said. I would give you rep points but I gotta spread it to other users it states.

[Eastern Mind]

SS:

I have no idea how to give rep points, and I wish that feature wasn't even there. This place is not a contest. But that's my opinion only. Others will vary. I wonder if I say a few really stupid things if I could get someone to ask to have some of those rep points removed.

A strategy for when people put you on a spiritual pedestal is to start smoking and spitting, I guess. lol

Aum Namasivaya

[Spiritualseeker]

lol. I like them though. It gives us a chance to give appreciation to those who take time to respond to our post.

OM
-juan

[devotee]

"For persons who are not very advanced in absolute knowledge of the Supreme, Lord Krsna exhibits his Transcendental pasttimes. Such persons can simply think of the pastimes of the Lord and get full benefit. Since there is no difference between the transcendental name and form of the Lord, there is no difference between the transcendental pastimes and the form of the Lord. For those who are less intelligent (like women, laborers, or the mercantile class), the great sage Vyasedeva wrot in Mahabharata."


This seems rather sexest for me. I have heard already the many arguments Muslims made in defense of their sexest views. Now I am not blaming the beautiful Sanatana Dharma nor the Vaishnava path, but the author seems a bit sexest. I just hope Vaishnavas and Shaivites do not share his views that women are defficient in intelligents like Muhammad viewed them.

Ah ! Not again, SS !! Don't keep on picking up something from everyone's statement & generalise the same for Vasihnavas, Hindus etc. These are the opinion of an individual & they should be treated as such. Forgot that Hindu Dharma is an un-organised religion ? Let everyone has his say.

Everyone has to taste the fruits of his own karmas. I must concentrate on my karmas ... where is the time for watching others ?? Remember, women are no less Brahman than BV Prabhupad is. If he chooses to see the difference ... he can do it at his own peril.

OM

[Spiritualseeker]

Ah ! Not again, SS !! Don't keep on picking up something from everyone's statement & generalise the same for Vasihnavas, Hindus etc. These are the opinion of an individual & they should be treated as such. Forgot that Hindu Dharma is an un-organised religion ? Let everyone has his say.

Everyone has to taste the fruits of his own karmas. I must concentrate on my karmas ... where is the time for watching others ?? Remember, women are no less Brahman than BV Prabhupad is. If he chooses to see the difference ... he can do it at his own peril.

OM

Namaste,

I didnt generalized I just was hoping it was not the view of Vaishnavas and Shaivites. The reason why in particular Vaishnavas is the quote did come from the mahabharata.

"For persons who are not very advanced in absolute knowledge of the Supreme, Lord Krsna exhibits his Transcendental pasttimes. Such persons can simply think of the pastimes of the Lord and get full benefit. Since there is no difference between the transcendental name and form of the Lord, there is no difference between the transcendental pastimes and the form of the Lord. For those who are less intelligent (like women, laborers, or the mercantile class), the great sage Vyasedeva wrote in Mahabharata."

So Vyasedeva wrote this in Mahabharata. I find that this set of works is emphasized by Vaishnavas. So Vyasedeva wrote this and the founder of ISKON supported it. It was not just the founder of ISKON. it comes from a scriptural text.

Sorry If I offended you, it is just a concern for me.

-juan

[ScottMalaysia]

Dear SpiritualSeeker,

The theology presented by Srila Prabhupada in that book is different from normal Hindu theology. He claims that Krishna alone is the Supreme Lord, and that Shiva, Ganesha, Durga and all the other Gods who are not incarnations of Vishnu are demigods. He refers to Lord Shiva and Lord Ganesha as demigods, as he believes that they are servants of Lord Krishna.

In his translation of Bhagavad-Gita, Prabhupada translates the word "deva" as "demigod". The word "deva" is the root of the Latin word "divinus" and the English words "divine" and "divinity". It clearly means "God" but he translates it as "demigod". Well, in most places, anyway. There are three verses in his Gita where he translates the word "deva" as "Lord" as it clearly refers to Lord Krishna. These are:

Bhagavad-Gita 11:38
tvam ādi-devaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇas tvam asya viśvasya paraḿ nidhānam
vettāsi vedyaḿ ca paraḿ ca dhāma tvayā tataḿ viśvam ananta-rūpa

Prabhupada's Translation
You are the original Personality of Godhead, the oldest, the ultimate sanctuary of this manifested cosmic world. You are the knower of everything, and You are all that is knowable. You are the supreme refuge, above the material modes. O limitless form! This whole cosmic manifestation is pervaded by You!

Bhagavad-Gita.org translation
You are the original Lord, the eternal Personality, You are the supreme refuge of the universe, the knower and the knowable and the supreme abode; by Your infinite form all the universe is pervaded.

Bhagavad-Gita 11:44
tasmāt praṇamya praṇidhāya kāyaḿ prasādaye tvām aham īśam īḍyam
piteva putrasya sakheva sakhyuḥ priyaḥ priyāyārhasi deva soḍhum


Prabhupada's Translation
You are the Supreme Lord, to be worshiped by every living being. Thus I fall down to offer You my respectful obeisances and ask Your mercy. As a father tolerates the impudence of his son, or a friend tolerates the impertinence of a friend, or a wife tolerates the familiarity of her partner, please tolerate the wrongs I may have done You.


Bhagavad-Gita.org Translation
Therefore prostrating my body flat on the ground in offering obeisances, I am propitiating You, the worshipful Supreme Lord as a father with a son, a friend with a friend and as a lover with a beloved. O Lord be merciful and tolerant.


Bhagavad-Gita 11:45
adṛṣṭa-pūrvaḿ hṛṣito 'smi dṛṣṭvā bhayena ca pravyathitaḿ mano me
tad eva me darśaya deva rūpaḿ prasīda deveśa jagan-nivāsa


Prabhupada's Translation
After seeing this universal form, which I have never seen before, I am gladdened, but at the same time my mind is disturbed with fear. Therefore please bestow Your grace upon me and reveal again Your form as the Personality of Godhead, O Lord of lords, O abode of the universe.


Bhagavad-Gita.org Site:
O Lord, by seeing this never before seen universal form I am gladdened yet my mind is agitated out of fear, O Lord of all gods, O refuge of the universe, show me Your former form.


So we can see write there that Prabhupada did a bit of "selective translation" in his Gita translatoin.

[bhaktajan]

Scott, I don't get your point ---it does not appear different. BTW, you are quoting different parts of Sri Arjuna's prayers & exaltations ---maybe you want to correct Arjuna's sentiments.

Scott wrote:
"Srila Prabhupada . . . claims that Krishna alone is the Supreme Lord,
and that Shiva, Ganesha, Durga and all the other Gods . . . are demigods. . . . that they are servants of Lord Krishna."

Scott this is correct!

The intellectual concept of "GOD" indicates & is revealed by Bhaktivedanta Swami's graciousness to you and others ---who accept the concept of "What is the definition of God".

God is: That person who is revealed as God Almighty as Krishna ---heretofore, unknown to the denizens of Bhumi-loka in this modern era.

Scott, what you have yet missed-out on is: The fact that 'Shiva, Ganesha, Durga and all the other Gods (devas) are cousins and related over the past 115 Trillion years since Sri Maha-pita-maha (dear great-grand-father) the adi-prajapati (the first progentitor) Lord Brahma (first born person/Engineer of the cosmos/father of Shiva/One-third part of the Hindu-Trinity incharge of Raja-Guna [active-mode of passion]) was born and began to poplulate the universe (the brahmanada).

The Demigods are each incharge of universal management ---and yes, they decend from a common family tree that starts with Lord Brahma. BTW, each Jiva-atma (individual Soul) entered the material Maha-Vishnu-Tattva by taking a birth their first birth in the material world, as a 'brahma' ---and then failed to achieve moksha. So here we all are searching out "Who is that supreme personality of Godhead that I must serve?".

The demigods are Gods to you and me and every body else ---who may seredipitously (luck), or, by causless mercy (unexpected benediction), or, by extreme tapasya (penence) chance upon being an unwiting or a willing tool in-the-service of such a Demigod ---at which point: Know that you are on the side of the angels and thus, doing a good job is to aide in God's work(s).

[Eastern Mind]

Bhaktajan:

This is a Vaishnava opinion, or perhaps a personal interpretation, not a matter of fact. Lets not forget that Hinduism is very very vast. There is room for several variations of philosophy. It is not just one sect. Any reference to Siva being a demigod is an insult to any sincere Saiva, and their intelligence. Here we discuss Sanatana Dharma.

There are people who as devotees don't even consider the Gita as much of an authoritarian scripture, for them. This is not to deny that it is for yourself, and others. Our religion is so vast. In fact many devotees follow no scriptures at all. They rely on mystical experience or temple worship or a Guru's darshan to bring them the sense of God's presence that they cherish.

Aum Namasivaya

[Spiritualseeker]

Namaste,

I would love to hear some comments on the text from the mahabharata that was quoted.
"For persons who are not very advanced in absolute knowledge of the Supreme, Lord Krsna exhibits his Transcendental pasttimes. Such persons can simply think of the pastimes of the Lord and get full benefit. Since there is no difference between the transcendental name and form of the Lord, there is no difference between the transcendental pastimes and the form of the Lord. For those who are less intelligent (like women, laborers, or the mercantile class), the great sage Vyasedeva wrote in Mahabharata."

P.S.
Thanks Scott
-juan