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Thread: Discussion about God with Buddhist

  1. #11

    Re: Discussion about God with Buddhist

    It was after a similar post on a buddhist forum that I decided I was no buddhist.
    I identify myself a lot more with the Advaitin teachings, than those of buddhism.
    For quite a while i tried to interpret buddhist teachings to have an "underlying" God, but for most buddhists there seems to be none.
    Although, as mentioned there are a lot of buddhist concepts that can be confused with a concept of God. These have been illustrated here on this thread.
    The Dharma-kaya, the Buddha nature, etc.
    For me these concepts are the same as Brahman, in Advaita.
    But most buddhists, especially western theravada buddhists refuse to call it God. This is probably due to the christian, dual, conception of god, with powers and rules, and a temper, a white bearded old man that lives in the clouds, you've seen the video... - don't take this the wrong way, it's just a funny video.
    The gods buddhists believe in are the devas, which are still beings, with tempers, etc. and they could be called angels or demons, or archangels in a christian context.
    I think buddhists have a very good point of view and method
    From my POV the buddha made a clash against the religion of the time, and teached according to his context. If the buddha had lived a few years later, in an age that weren't so marked with theism, he probably taught more in a Theistic way.

    Sorry for my tone..
    If we practice the dharma, and listen to the guru within, we'll all get to the same place, call it Nibbana, Moksha, Turya, Heaven, etc..

  2. #12

    Re: Discussion about God with Buddhist

    I found this talk by a buddhist monk.. http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/budgod.html

    It kind of explains the buddhist view on the God-issue. And it also gives an explaination why the Buddha didn't speak of God.
    This monk has a very moderate POV that I like.

  3. #13

    Re: Discussion about God with Buddhist

    I asked a similar question in Sanatana Dharma - Philosophy -ātman & individual soul.

    What some 'Buddhists' told me lately is Buddha-nature does not mean Divinity because each Buddha has its own nature.

    So, Green Tara has the nature of being green, but that does not mean 'green is Divinity.'

    They admitted that there is an story about a being created the universe, but they say the being was deluded. This is sort of like the Gnostic idea that the demiurge is evil.

    I think any limited or non-eternal being can be described as having some evil nature, but that does not mean an impersonal god is evil or even that there is not some rational explanation. I guess I would prefer an idea in between that of such Gnostics/Buddhists and between that of the idea that there is some limited Divinity that is perfectly good.

    I guess Buddhists can take the viewpoints of polytheism, pan(en)theism (of akasha or Adi-Buddha,) autotheism (one's Buddha-nature,) but not (kat)henotheism. Because, what is the 'greatest' Divinity? Who knows if the creator of the universe was deluded or not or if Adi-Buddha is or is not the creator? Maybe the idea is Adi-Buddha is not the creator, but just the oldest Buddha still known, because if the demiurge was deluded it cannot be Adi-Buddha. But, then the question is whether the so-called demiurge was really it. In a way this Buddhism is sort of like the Greek Cynics. Independent arising still means there has to be order and that things can be explained, but maybe Buddhists do not think so. Maybe Buddhists think the three or four marks of existence only mean there is a threefold or fourfold existence but anything else is not agreed on in Buddhism. It also seems those 'marks' are merely something accepted by a majority.

    One Rinpoche whose lectures I go to said that something like 'some people call "spirit" "atma."' It means the same as consciousness but it is hard enough for most people to become fully aware of their mental consciousness. Then how can they claim to know there is nothing beyond that? Probably there is infinity beyond it. I would trust such Rinpoches more than the average Buddhist who has not spent months of disciplined life doing much meditation. They probably have not seen the advanced results of meditation and are agnostic--not gnostic about 'themselves'--and do not really know what they are talking about. One can call consciousness/spirit/intelligence non-self and even say that 'spirit dissolves into void' and I think that is compatible with Sanatana Dharma, but it is gnostic. These 'Buddhists' reject other ideas of void nature such as 'Paramatma' 'Parabrahm' or 'Absolute' or 'causeless cause,' so I do not think they have done much meditation and they have some dogmatic idea about the void. They are attached to their consciousness and their ideas about void. They cannot accept 'void = everything' and 'void is (not) Parabrahm because it is most (un)explainable' and those are relative statements, and that when they are realized they will see the truth beyond such statements, because they are attached to their ideas about the three or four marks and Buddha-nature.

    Maybe if they were not so dogmatic about that but still saw the truth in Buddhism they would know what they are talking about. Nagarjuna got beyond tetralemma. Mahavira (the final Jain Tirthankara) got beyond any such idea. Of course, Mahavira was not Buddhist, so to Buddhists he must be wrong. However it is said Jain Dharma was a main influence on Buddha Dharma.

  4. #14
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    Re: Discussion about God with Buddhist

    Namaste FlipAsso,

    My interaction with some Buddhists gives me an impression that the Westerner Buddhists go too far to prove that they have a completely different ideology as compared to Advaita Vedanta & sometimes it just goes to the point of absurdity. They tend to explain Buddha's teachings which, perhaps, was never in Buddha's mind. And that is more so in Theravada Buddhism. They even refuse to accept that Buddha was a born Hindu. They all try to attain enlightenment but refuse to accept any idea of "self" ... even illusive self. When Buddha said that there is no "self", he meant the lower self, the individual self which is in line with Advaita. Buddhism also fails to recognise the first three states of SELF & only talks about the fourth i.e. the Turiya.

    In my opinion, based on my understanding of Buddhism, there is not much difference among these three philophies ... Advaita Vedanta, Buddhism & Jainism ... though the terms used are slightly different.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  5. #15

    Re: Discussion about God with Buddhist

    Agreed..
    Buddhism has a view I apreciate though..
    They say intelectual speculation about whether or not there is a God who created this world, whether this God is illuded or not, or whether there is something we can call a self is not conductive to enlightenment.
    One the other hand,only practice is.
    And I see no incompatabilities with buddhist and hindu practices. In fact I found a translation of the Yoga Sutra's of Patanjali which is very much similar with the eightfold path of buddhism.
    The 5 yamas of patanjali are very similar to the 5 percepts of lay Buddhists.
    The meditation practices are similar, and one important aspect of buddhism, the Brahma Viharas (metta, karuna, upekka and mudita) also appears in the Yoga Sutras.
    The buddhist meditation practice of Vipassana is also very similar to the discriminational practice of Neti-Neti, in Advaita.
    I myself, find support in some ways in the Hindu tradition, and in other ways (namely meditation) in the Buddhist.

    As once said in this forum, the horse and the one who rides it are but the same being.. - So when one reaches enlightenment, one will reach the same "place" whether one calls it heaven, turyia, nibbana, the promissed land, etc..

  6. #16
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    Re: Discussion about God with Buddhist

    Namaste FlipAsso,

    But most buddhists, especially western theravada buddhists refuse to call it God. This is probably due to the christian, dual, conception of god, with powers and rules, and a temper, a white bearded old man that lives in the clouds, you've seen the video... - don't take this the wrong way, it's just a funny video.
    I agree with you and Devotee on these points. I don't personally know any Theravada Buddhists or even Western Buddhists, but I do agree that they are very vehement about the no God concept. I understand its role in Buddhism throughout, as it largely focuses on non-attachment, not even to the Divine as an entity, but as Devotee has remarked they do take it to the point of absurdity. They are, in a sense, attached to unattachment. A true follower of Buddha will not argue for there being a God, but neither will he refute its existence. It is why Buddhism has always been called the Middle Way.

    But I do appreciate Buddhism deeply. Its tenets are more or less the same as in Hinduism: ahimsa, speaking truthfully, correct livelihood, non-attachment, etc. On days when I don't feel inclined to pray to God as a person, or Saguna Brahman, I take a very Buddhist approach to the world and simply follow the rules of good living for myself and for all things with no concern for personal Godhead. Whereas before I might once have made a distinction between having a personal and agnostic relationship with the concept of God, I see now they are the same path, but just with different approaches.

    Like you have said, FlipAsso, whatever happens, we are all heading for the same destination, whatever the name we give the road we are travelling on.
    "Watch your thoughts, they become words.
    Watch your words, they become actions.
    Watch your actions, they become habits.
    Watch your habits, they become your character.
    Watch your character, it becomes your destiny."

    ॐ गं गणपतये नमः
    Om Gam Ganapataye namah

    लोकाः समस्ताः सुखिनो भवन्तु ।
    Lokaah SamastaaH Sukhino Bhavantu

  7. #17

    Re: Discussion about God with Buddhist

    God only a word who many peoples have different opinion
    how can peoples have one opinion about God ?
    Even same religion , same sect , ever under same Guru is have different opinion

    OM. VAJRA. VISHNUYA. SVAHA
    OM. VAJRA. GARUDA. CALE CALE. HUM PHAT


    OM. AMOGHA VAIROCANA. MAHA-MUDRA. MANI PADMA JVALA PRAVARTTAYA. HUM

    Om Saha Nau-Avatu |
    Saha Nau Bhunaktu |
    Saha Viiryam Karava-Avahai |
    Tejasvi Nau-Adhii-Tam-Astu Maa Vidviss-Aavahai |
    Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||


  8. #18
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    Re: Discussion about God with Buddhist

    Quote Originally Posted by sunyata07 View Post
    On days when I don't feel inclined to pray to God as a person, or Saguna Brahman, I take a very Buddhist approach to the world and simply follow the rules of good living for myself and for all things with no concern for personal Godhead.
    Good one ! Worshipping personal Godhead is one of the ways/vehicles that takes us towards the True Path through fruits of good actions & grace of God but it needs deep contemplation on Advaita teachings (that includes Buddha's teachings too) & deep meditation to actually realise the Ultimate Reality.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  9. #19

    Re: Discussion about God with Buddhist

    Er... like I said, Buddha-nature is spread, sky-like, all over the web of DO. This Buddha-nature is sometimes said to consist of three enlightening bodies or kayas: the dharma-kaya, the source giving rise to the dharma, the nirmana-kaya, and the other one, whatever it's called. Sometimes it's also said to consist of five enlightening bodies, depending on the way one chooses to analyze it. If it is asserted that the dharma arises at every point, then we can either claim that all things arise from a single monad like Brahma, or we may also speculate that the dharma is caused due to natural law arising as an interconnected sky-like network spread across time and space, hence taking different forms at each point. If so, then it defies conceptual categorization such as one vs. many, differentiated vs. undifferentiated, etc as a whole. Buddhism takes the latter approach.
    Last edited by nac; 28 January 2010 at 03:35 AM.

  10. #20
    mcshantihank Guest

    Re: Discussion about God with Buddhist

    according to http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...earchmode=none :

    O.E. god "supreme being, deity," from P.Gmc. *guthan (cf. Du. god, Ger. Gott, O.N. guğ, Goth. guş), from PIE *ghut- "that which is invoked" (cf. Skt. huta- "invoked," an epithet of Indra), from root *gheu(e)- "to call, invoke." But some trace it to PIE *ghu-to- "poured," from root *gheu- "to pour, pour a libation" (source of Gk. khein "to pour," khoane "funnel" and khymos "juice;" also in the phrase khute gaia "poured earth," referring to a burial mound). "Given the Greek facts, the Germanic form may have referred in the first instance to the spirit immanent in a burial mound" [Watkins]. Cf. also Zeus. Not related to good. Originally neut. in Gmc., the gender shifted to masc. after the coming of Christianity. O.E. god was probably closer in sense to L. numen. A better word to translate deus might have been P.Gmc. *ansuz, but this was only used of the highest deities in the Gmc. religion, and not of foreign gods, and it was never used of the Christian God. It survives in English mainly in the personal names beginning in Os-.
    I want my lawyer, my tailor, my servants, even my wife to believe in God, because it means that I shall be cheated and robbed and cuckolded less often. ... If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him. [Voltaire]
    God bless you after someone sneezes is credited to St. Gregory the Great, but the pagan Romans (Absit omen) and Greeks had similar customs.

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