ISKCON Translation of Svet Upanishad

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté unata

Namaste yajvan ji,

He has already spoken. He is a great soul so you and that other fool do not undrtstand this great soul. He has already given a fitting reply which is repeated below:

He has already told amply clearly in what disdain he holds even the concept of Self Realisation. He is bright new star -- a servanyt of Prabhupada, who rightly called other fake Indian Gurus, who taught of fake Self Realisation as Cheaters and Rascals. Jai Shri Krishna

Your comprehension is different then mine... If from your POV you see the answer clearly, then your assessment is fair and just. I do not see this and have stated this in my posts. This does not suggest bhaktajan's words are wrong, they just fall short of a simple, easy to understand reply.

you mention

what disdain he holds even the concept of Self Realisation.

Yet bhaktajan offers in post 6 the following:

I am self-realised. Oh yes I am!

I am happy for this. My intent was to find-out the experience and the path to this realization; yet I read of no disdain in post 6.

For me then I am perplexed by post 16; bhaktajan offers:

I do not claim that I possess the following qualities:
Brahma-bhuta/brahma-nirvanam (free from false ego & free from material contamination and situated as one with the Absolute)

When I compare and contrast the posts ( 6 and 16) , I am left trying to better understand the experience and what just has been said and read two distinct messages.
What would help correct the confusion? For me the question of experiencing turiya¹ continually would assist my understanding; this is from the śāstra-s as they point to the realized-one and the continuum of this experience.

This say the wise, is the simple, natural experience that one does not loose in wake, dream or sleep - these levels of consciousness are just an extension of the 4th.

So by suggesting brahma-bhūta¹ is not the experience that is stabilized and the regular ~possessed~ state of being then turīyātīta¹ , I am (still) at a loss for what bhaktajan defines as 'self-realised' per his words.

If you have a better way of explaining this, I am eager to hear your knowledge, POV and any śāstric reference that would compliment your response , I'd be grateful. I offered mine above from the śiva sutras and from the Yogadarśana of Patañjali and am happy to offer more.

Please point out the blemishes in my comprehension so that I too can see what you see.

praṇām


words

• brahma ब्रह्म - the one self-existent Existence, the Absolute ; note the following derivatives - in the nominative¹ noun brahma is used for the impersonal Spirit and the nominative masculine case is brahmā for the personal god
  • The nominative case is the usual, natural form.
• bhūta भूत- become , been ; obtained
• nirvāṇa निर्वाण- immersed, plunged i.e. final emancipation from matter and re-union with the Supreme Spirit
• turiya तुरीय - the forth part; turīyātīta¹ तुरीयातीत beyond the 4th.

[unata]

~~~~~~
Namasté unata
Your comprehension is different then mine...

Namaste yajvan ji,

Obviously. Please read together:

I am self-realised. Oh yes I am!
Unfortunately it does not provide me with any means of paying the bills.

A Self realised helps other pay off their unpaid bills (karma). Self realised is not concerned of his bills. He has no bills to pay. Karma has washed away from the Self Realised.

If you are still unclear then, I will pm you.

Jai Shri Krishna

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté unata


My POV has little to do with income... that is, I comprehend this

Unfortunately it does not provide me with any means of paying the bills.

my position is simple :
"I am self-realised. Oh yes I am!" does not = "I do not claim that I possess the following qualities:Brahma-bhuta/brahma-nirvanam (free from false ego & free from material contamination and situated as one with the Absolute)"


Thank you for your offer on your personal PM ; at this point I think I will leave my my vision on this matter on hold, and continue to revert back to my teachings, study, personal experience, and what the wise suggest about kaivala¹.

Thank you again for taking the time to respond and giving mindful thought to your answers.


praṇām

kaivala कैवल also written kevala केवल - is simple , pure , uncompounded , unmingled ; perfect unity;

[bhaktajan]

unata,

thank you for your opinion.

Intelligence/Knowledge (veda) signifies "ability to discriminate".

For example, ability to discriminate between Butter & Cheese constitutes Intelligence/Knowledge.

So if one is ignorant/fool/bestial, one cannot discern nor discriminate between 'this and that'.

Utana,
Look at your visage in the Looking Glass and you will see your the reverse image ---yet you are the same person in dual forms, one is you the other a pseudo-image. Be proud that you can see straight.

[atanu]

Utana,

Look at your visage in the Looking Glass and you will see your the reverse image ---yet you are the same person in dual forms, one is you the other a pseudo-image. Be proud that you can see straight.

Namaste bhakta,

Ya. Ya. That was very much pre-meditated. Medicine for an ignorance as wild as a wild elephant is different.

So is the Universe and Brahman, like atanu and unata. So is Siv and Vis. So is Self and self, which are images of Self in many hues. There is no Seer but Him. There is no knower but Him. Do not delude yourself. A single moon appears many in many small small poodles.

Katha Up.
2-II-9. Just as fire, though one, having entered the world, assumes a separate form in respect of every form, so does the in-dwelling Self of all beings, though one, assume a form in respect of every form, and is outside it.
2-II-10. Just as wind, though one, having entered the world, assumes a separate form in respect of each form, so does the in-dwelling Self of all beings, though one, assumes a form in respect of every form and is outside it.
2-II-11. Just as the sun, which is the eye of the entire world, is not tainted by the external impurities seen by the eyes, so also, the in-dwelling Self of all beings, though one, is not tainted by the sorrows of the world, It being external.

And my rejoinders are, mostly, with love --- to put the right questions. It does not happen instantly, and no one accepts that such and such questions of atanu helped, but I have seen many get the light that "Oh, yes, it is impossible to know the truth being the untruth".

With Love,

Om Namah Shivaya

[coolbodhi]

I am self-realised. Oh yes I am!

You are self-realised but I noticed that you keep bickering on and on with non iskconites. I call your bluff and say that you are a liar.

[bhaktajan]

I call your bluff and say that you are a liar.

IS IT NOW MY ASSIGNED JOB TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT? LIE ABOUT WHAT?

The topic is shown above "ISKCON Translation of Svet Upanishad".

Be expert in something or other but choose something and then become a maestro and ask what service can I do for others [nevermind that they will kick and scream sometimes, that's par for the course.] Tough-love is practiced everyday by police and prison guards and fireman with axes ---they do not abandon their post because of inconvienence(s).

[bhaktajan]

Bhaktajan: "I am self-realised. Oh yes I am!" ---does not = . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . "


Please, feel free to, to the best of you abilities, Fill-in the blank with all the qualities that fit the bill.

I too have countless complaints with this Bhaktajan fellow,
Bhaktajan

PS: Yes I am a servant of the servants of Sri Krishna (Vaishnava ID#: __confidential___).

[coolbodhi]

Self realized people don't bicker and complain on public forums.

[satay]

Admin Note

Namaskar,
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Thanks,