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Thread: The Supreme Personality...

  1. #11
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    Re: The Supreme Personality...

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    Namasté

    But what does Kṛṣṇa say about this? Would that not be a useful POV to consider? We find His view in the Mahābhārata and will be offered

    I thought perhaps a few of you may find reading how Kṛṣṇa describes Maheśvara as useful.. This is from the Mahābhārata, Anusadana Parva, Section CLXI (or section 161 if my Roman numerals are correct.)

    Vāsudeva (Kṛṣṇa) said, 'O mighty-armed Yudhiäthira, listen to me as I recite to thee the many names of Rudra as also the high blessedness of that high-souled one.

    The ṛṣī (rishi-s) describe Mahādeva as Agni , and Sthanu, and Maheśvara; as one-eyed, and three-eyed, of universal form, and
    Śiva or highly auspicious. Brāhmaṇa-s conversant with the Veda-s say that that god has two forms.
    · One of these is terrible, and the other mild and auspicious. Those two forms again, are subdivided into many forms.

    · That form which is fierce and terrible is regarded as identical with Agni and Lightning and Surya. The other form which is mild and auspicious is identical with Righteousness and water and Chandramas.
    · Then, again, it is said that half his body is fire and half is Soma (or the moon). That form of his which is mild and auspicious is said to be engaged in the practice of the Brahmacharya vow. The other form of his which is supremely terrible is engaged in all operations of destruction in the universe.

    · Because he is great (Mahat) and the Supreme Lord of all (Īśwara), therefore he is called Maheśvara . And since he burns and oppresses, is keen and fierce, and endued with great energy, and is engaged in eating flesh and blood and marrow, he is said to be Rudra.
    · Since he is the foremost of all the deities, and since his dominion and acquisitions are very extensive, and since he protects the extensive universe, therefore he is called Mahādeva. Since he is of the form or colour of smoke, therefore he is called Dhurjati.

    · Since by all his acts he performs sacrifices for all and seeks the good of every creature, therefore he is called Śiva or the auspicious one. Staying above (in the sky) he burns the lives of all creatures and is, besides, fixed in a particular route from which he does not deviate.
    · His emblem, again, is fixed and immovable for all time. He is, for these reasons, called Sthanu. He is also of multiform aspect. He is present, past, and future. He is mobile and immobile. For this he is called Vahurupa (of multiform aspect).

    · The deities called viśve-deva-s reside in his body. He is, for this, called Viśvarupa (or universal form). He is thousand-eyed; or, he is myriad-eyed; or, he has eyes on all sides and on every part of his body, His energy issues through his eyes. (We can see from this why rudraksha is of great importance. Also thousand eyes is another way of saying there is no place that He is not ).

    · There is no end of his eyes. Since he always nourishes all creatures and sports also with them, and since he is their lord or master, therefore he is called Paśupati (the lord of all creatures).

    · Since his emblem is always observant of the vow of brahmacarya, all the worlds worship it accordingly. This act of worship is said to gratify him highly.

    · If there is one who worship him by creating his image, another who worships his emblem, the latter it is that attains to great prosperity for ever. The ṛṣī-s, the deities, the Gandharvas, and the Apsaras, worship that emblem of his which is ever erect and upraised [ i.e. śva-lingam ]. If his emblem is worshipped, Maheśvara becomes highly gratified with the worshipper.

    · Affectionate towards his devotees, he bestows happiness upon them with a cheerful soul. This great god loves to reside in crematoria and there he burns and consumes all corpses. Those persons that perform sacrifices on such grounds attain at the end to those regions which have been set apart for heroes. Employed in his legitimate function, it is he That is regarded as the Death that resides in the bodies of all creatures.

    · He is, again, those breaths called Prana and Apana in the bodies of all embodied beings. He has many blazing and terrible forms. All those forms are worshipped in the world and are known to brāhmaṇa-s possessed of knowledge. Amongst the gods he has many names all of which are fraught with grave import. Verily, the meanings of those names are derived from either his greatness or vastness, or his feats, or his conduct.

    · The brāhmaṇa-s always recite the excellent Sata-rudriya in his honour, that occurs in the Vedas as also that which has been composed by Vyāsa (or Kṛṣṇa Dvaipāyana), the one who compiled the veda-s. Verily, the brāhmaṇa-s and ṛṣī-s call him the eldest of all beings. He is the first of all the deities, and it was from his mouth that he created Agni. That righteous-souled deity, ever willing to grant protection to all, never gives up his suppliants. He would much rather abandon his own life-breaths and incur all possible afflictions himself.
    Long life, health and freedom from disease, affluence, wealth, diverse kinds of pleasures and enjoyments, are conferred by him, and it is he also who snatches them away. The lordship and affluence that one sees in Śakra [Śakra = ‘powerful’, another name for Indra] and the other deities are, verily his. It is he who is always engaged in all that is good and evil in the three worlds. In consequence of his fullest control over all objects of enjoyment he is called Īśwara (the Supreme Lord or Master). Since, again, He is the master of the vast universe, he is called Maheśvara.

    The whole universe is pervaded by him in diverse forms. It is that deity whose mouth roars and burns the waters of the sea in the form of the huge mare's head!

    ॐनमःिशवाय

    praṇām
    Last edited by yajvan; 16 September 2009 at 12:42 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #12

    Re: The Supreme Personality...

    Yajvan,

    I thank thee for thine posting.

    You've not included above sastric revelation of Lord Shiva's "PERSONALITY".

    "God is Great" --I have heard this said.

    Where's the "PERSONALITY"?

    The all-personable "ALL Personable"?

    There probablily additional verses that describe that, yes? Along with the issue of devotion (bhakti-yoga) too?

  3. #13

    Re: The Supreme Personality...

    1] If the Kauravas had won ---it would have been because their deceitfullness proved advantagous over other stragtergies.

    It was the Kauravas' deceitfullness that lost the right to righteousness.

    2] Kali-Yuga had begun ---Adharmic forces were headed by the best of the best remnents of the ancient dynasties, a sure formula for unconquerable militarism.

    3] The level testosterone & overt maschimo was unparalled in history by the characters in the Mahabharata. The Rajas in this epic history of court intrigue has never been matched in the history records of Western civilisation. This warrior-king-sages had Maha-panditas/rshis/yogin/sadhus and even devas to consult with. The planet at that time had no other empire to content with [hence the internal civil-war]. These Men/king/Sages were all 'Top-Gun' and they knew it and flaunted it with great enthusiasism. They had a duty to show their prowess as a daily pastime.

    4] How many Men, women & children die each day? All are taken by the agency headed by God. So too with the many births afford by the mercy og God to allow freedom to enjoy.

    5] The characters in the MB were persons with a background ---so many purposes & tasks were accomplished in 'one-fell-swoop' throughout the MB. The lives of the personalities that took part in the MB lila were all at the top of their game in all regards and thus we are made privy to occurences of those souls that earned the right to participate in a governemnt level lifetime that rewarde them with the karma to see both extremes of life in at the start of the Kali-yuga among the inhabitants of Bhumi-loka during the 'once-in-a-day-of-Brahma' visit by God in his Provincial+Royal+Familial+Warrior+Pundita et al rasa(s) for the betterment of 'those-in-the-know'.
    Last edited by satay; 16 September 2009 at 11:14 PM.

  4. #14
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    Re: The Supreme Personality...

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaktajan View Post
    Absolute-ness means "A" is differs from "B" there is A & B plus many other letters. Each is absolutely different from the other --'spell-check' proves that.


    Namaste,
    Spell check? That A differs from B is good knowledge, which primary school students are required to know and they know.

    To this good knowledge please add the following:

    1. The truth is one. Sages call it differently.
    2. Words come back from Him. Mind comes back from Him.

    Knowledge that A is different from B is in mind and known in words. These bounce back or rather these indeed originate from Him, who is the goal of seeker. The goal of the seeker is not the knowledge that black skin is different from white skin or such other beautiful knowledge.

    Merging into Brahman does not constitute Absolute Dharma it is a relative salvation.


    An ego imagines "Brahman is void and I am this solid existence and thus real. It is no good merging in the void. I, who am so active and intelligent, will become a dumbo like stone or like nothingness".

    This is standard christian criticism of Vedanta.

    It is essential for all sins to wash away by knowing what that knowable Brahman is and what the ego is.

    Or it is essential to surrender completely accepting that all paths are His.

    Only two possibilities.


    Om Namah Shivaya
    Last edited by atanu; 17 September 2009 at 06:16 AM. Reason: grammar and spelling
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  5. #15
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    Re: The Supreme Personality...

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    Namast

    The Supreme...

    Chāndogya Upaniad 4.3.0
    The śloka-s here are discussions on Brahman and its manifestation in all the worlds. The 4.3.8 śloka mentions , daśa santa tat ktam which says 'what is created of that One becomes ten' .

    This 10 is all that is created that is in the 10 directions e.g. the 8 compass directions N, NE, E, W, NW, S, SE, SW = 8 compass directions. This suggests the fullness of a manifestation by direction( dikcara) + 'up' and 'down' i.e. vertical up and down = the total of 10.

    Rig Veda mantra (10.90.1)
    A thousand heads hath Purusa, a thousand eyes, a thousand feet,
    On every side , pervading earth he fills a space ten fingers wide.

    We intuitively know sahasrasirsha - a thousand heads, means the Purua is everywhere, all pervading , ubiquitous. This is supported by saying sarvatah pani-padam - His hands and feet (too) are everywhere.

    Now when we come to 'He fill the space 10 fingers wide' , this is just as profound as all pervading too. How so? We know Purua is from He who resides in the city ( puri). We ,our bodies, are considered the city or puri.

    He resides there (puri) as this SELF. But 'He fills 10 fingers wide ' what of that? Lets put a few things together. This puri , this city of ours is said to have 9 gates. And He is known as the SELF, the ātman. If we take the 9 gates of our body, + the ātman = 10. This 10, that is described in this sūkta points to Him as the number 10, as Purua, daśamas tvam asi ( the 10th one, thy, exist ~ the 10th I am). He fills the space 10 fingers wide i.e. he purmates the individual completely.

    This is the way the ṛṣi-s magnify this greatness , by multiples of this 10. That is, 100, or 1,000 all point to the fullness of this Being based upon 1 + 0.

    praām

    words
    • dikcara - the compass , the whole world ; the circuit of the quarter of the compass
    • bhūman - the aggregate of all existing things; abundance , plenty , wealth , opulence, fullness.
    • virāj - in vedānta, the Supreme Intellect located in the aggregate of all gross bodies
    • daśamas or daśama - the 10th
    • tvam or tva - one, thy.
    • āsi or ās - to exist, to be present, to dwell in, to make one's abode; āsina - seated
    • 9 gates - 9 openings 2 eyes, 2 ears, 1 mouth, 2 nostrils, and two below the waist. Note that various śastra call out the body with 9, 10 and 11 gates.
    • More on this 10 - see HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=13877&postcount=6
    Last edited by yajvan; 24 August 2013 at 08:02 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #16
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    Re: The Supreme Personality...

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan
    This is from the Mahābhārata, Anusadana Parva, Section CLXI (
    The same Mahabharat in last and concluding Parva says
    Hari is supreme.

    "In the Vedas, in the Ramayana, and in the sacred Bharata, O chief of Bharata’s race, Hari is sung in the beginning, the middle, and at the end. That in which occur excellent statements relating to Vishnu, and the eternal Srutis"

    The vast puranas and other scriptures are not immune to interpolations and when one can show innumerable and contradictory quotes.

  7. #17
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    Re: The Supreme Personality...

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Chāndogya Upaniṣad 4.3.0
    The śloka-s here are discussions on Brahman and its manifestation in all the worlds. The 4.3.8 śloka mentions , daśa santaḥ tat kṛtam which says 'what is created of that One becomes ten' .

    This 10 is all that is created that is in the 10 directions e.g. the 8 compass directions N, NE, E, W, NW, S, SE, SW = 8 compass directions. This suggests the fullness of a manifestation by direction( dikcara&#185 + 'up' and 'down' i.e. vertical up and down = the total of 10.
    Ok 10 directions.Then what?


    Rig Veda mantra (10.90.1)A thousand heads hath Purusa, a thousand eyes, a thousand feet,On every side , pervading earth he fills a space ten fingers wide
    But, the Purusha was sacrificed. Right?

    We intuitively know sahasrasirsha - a thousand heads, means the Puru[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma]a is everywhere, all pervading , ubiquitous. This is supported by saying sarvatah pani-padam - His hands and feet (too) are everywhere.
    Well, the same Chandogya says supreme God is Formless.

    What the author of This upanishad is trying to convey?


    [

  8. #18
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    Re: The Supreme Personality...

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    Namasté proudhindu

    Quote Originally Posted by proudhindu View Post
    Ok 10 directions.Then what?
    But, the Purusha was sacrificed. Right?
    Well, the same Chandogya says supreme God is Formless. What the author of This upanishad is trying to convey?
    The notion of 10 is key - the offer of 10 directions is a symbol, hint, information ( saṃketa ) that tells us there is no place this Being is not. Yet it is worthy of note that this section is an instruction by the muni raikva (a jñāin) to jānaśruti , a King. ( More on this if there is interest).

    This is the wisdom the jñāin offers to define the ~nature~ of Brahman. You ask 'Then what?' it will be rewarding to read this whole section, and the answer to your question will be revealed. That is, raikva gives examples of Brahman with form and formless. This is easy to see ( IMHO) as there is no thing He/It/She is not.

    You will find the make-up of this 10 as 1 + 0 , and 5 + 5 and as 4+3+2+1. This wisdom ( for me) goes beyond brilliant. But what does the 5 & 5 represent ? That is reviewed in this Chāndogya Upaniṣad.

    What of this 4+3+2+1 You will find it in kṛta ( the number 4) offered in this Upaniṣad. That of a die ( dice). This 4 contains within it 3, 2 and 1 . If we sum it up we get ( 4+3+2+1) 10.

    Yes, but what are they trying to tell me? daśa santai tat ktam - What is created of that One becomes 10. (Chāndogya Upaniṣad 4.3.8)

    He is the One that shines ( rāṭ ) in every specific form ( vi ) ~ virāṭ ¹ ~ . He manifests in all the worlds.


    praām

    words
    • vi is from 'dvi' meaning in parts, directions, distribution. the rsi applies it to mean 'specific forms' or diversity.
    • virāṭ is the form of virāj to be illustrious or eminent , shine forth , shine out ; we also know this word as a
      ruler, to reign , rule , govern , master
    • the first progeny of brahmā having divided his own substance into male and female , produced from the female the male power virāj
    Last edited by yajvan; 20 September 2009 at 10:58 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #19
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    Re: The Supreme Personality...

    Thank you Yajvan ji for your valuable inputs in this thread. I hope to see more of such inputs from you. ::

    Pranams

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  10. #20
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    Re: The Supreme Personality...

    Pranaam Yajvaan,
    You will find the make-up of this 10 as 1 + 0 , and 5 + 5 and as 4+3+2+1
    10 can be also made up from adding 6 and 4( 6+4)

    This 4 contains within it 3, 2 and 1
    Could you please explain this statement.How does 4 contain 3,2 and 1 within.

    What is created of that One becomes 10
    This statement is more obscure than the the original 4:3:8.

    This reminds me of those Number juggling done by Sankya((?)) astrologers

    You will find it in kṛta ( the number 4) offered in this Upaniṣad. That of a die ( dice). This 4 contains within it 3, 2 and 1 . If we sum it up we get ( 4+3+2+1) 10.
    It appears you have great faith in swami Krishnananda who interprets Krta as dice(and hence number 4..rofl)

    Krta कृत has meanings relating to actions:

    The sruti Vakyas are indeed most difficult to understand and any speculative attempts like this as done by Krishnananda doesn't add any glory to them.

    Edit: added mention of Krta.
    Last edited by proudhindu; 22 September 2009 at 12:08 AM.

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