The Danger of christian missionaries in India!

[TatTvamAsi]

As Neitzsche himself said, "The first and last christian died on the cross!"

This jaggin sure has a cross stuck in him somewhere.

That which is "born" has to "die". Therefore, judaism, christianity, and islam will eventually die; hopefully sooner rather than later.

Remember, India is the last bastion of freedom! I really mean this; it is the ONLY CIVILIZATION on earth that has withstood the onslaught of the untouchables (muslims/christians) for over 1300 years and still remains predominantly Hindu in culture, people, and mind!

Again as Toynbee stated, "India the conquered will become India the conquerer!" (Through mind and cutlure I believe).

JAI HIND!

Namaste,



Sorry, but allow me to alter your quote a little:



That's the problem with Christianity. From the time it rose and thrived in late ancient Roman times, it has become the very force it was once persecuted for. Look at how many cultures and societies have been destroyed, how many people brutally tortured and killed for the "salvation of their souls". All the Western empires conquered the new worlds under the banner of their own ideals of white, Western righteousness - a lame imitation religion of Judaism. Ironically, the great civilisations of the Americas were felled at the arrival of invaders from Spain claiming to spread faith and hope to a heathen land. A land that had already seen such brilliant architecture, mathematics, knowledge of astronomy and sophisticated road systems. What was the result of these new white masters? Disease, slavery, pillaging of gold and precious stones, destruction of ancient religious customs, cultural upheaval and the ruination of some of the greatest civilisations ever known. You are under some serious delusions if you don't think Christianity and colonisation fit each other like a hand and glove!

For myself, I feel sympathy for true Christians, if there really are any real ones left in the world, that they have to suffer the proselytising attitude of the mass portrayal they have in the media. Seriously, how many of you don't roll your ideas when you hear the word Christianity these days? Who doesn't think of some religious Bible-thumping nut when you hear the word Christian? Is it any wonder so many people in the west have lost faith and turned atheistic? The true essence of its original teachings like compassion, love for one's neighbour and peace and brotherhood is all but lost on the obsession missionaries have with saving - I mean, converting every soul they encounter. Only too recently have I had my eyes open to how destructive a force it can be. I've read a novel recently, called The Poisonwood Bible by Barbara Kingsolver and it covers just about everything that is wrong with the Christian approach to spreading the message of the "good book". Yes, there is some integrity and spiritual truth left, but it is really quite small and eventually whatever goodness left of it will be more or less negligible.

But you are right about one thing though, it has the shamelessness of a business organisation.

[sanjaya]

As Neitzsche himself said, "The first and last christian died on the cross!"

This jaggin sure has a cross stuck in him somewhere.

That which is "born" has to "die". Therefore, judaism, christianity, and islam will eventually die; hopefully sooner rather than later.

Remember, India is the last bastion of freedom! I really mean this; it is the ONLY CIVILIZATION on earth that has withstood the onslaught of the untouchables (muslims/christians) for over 1300 years and still remains predominantly Hindu in culture, people, and mind!

Again as Toynbee stated, "India the conquered will become India the conquerer!" (Through mind and cutlure I believe).

JAI HIND!

Yes, I agree. The true strength of Hinduism lies in its ability to persuade without force or compulsion. In our 5000+ year history, India has never gone on a conquering spree, and indeed we have been conquered on numerous occasions. But unlike Christian Europe or the Islamic Middle East, we never lost our culture and religion. Today India is still upwards of 80% Hindu. The Bhagavad Gita stands apart from other religious texts. In most religions, God commands "thou shalt..." to his followers, and they obey on pain of death or hell. Contrast this with the humility of Sri Krishna. Though he is God, and though all people and things are his by right, he never imposed his will on Arjuna, but persuaded him with logic and reason. Threats of eternal condemnation bring obedience from fear, but Krishna's way brings obedience that is genuine. With a religion such as ours, who needs to engage in missionary conquests?

Though this is an old thread, I've been reading the posts. I think that Jaggin is being genuine, but he may have bought into some misinformation. He said, "Christianity was intended by God to be universal." But the fact is that it isn't universal. For most of its two thousand year history, Christianity has been a religion of, by, and for white Westerners. Even in Eastern countries like South Korea where Christianity has made inroads, it has Westernized the culture in the process. Nothing at all against Westerners, but the claim of universality just doesn't work. The New Testament was written in a Greek context, and uses Western logic. It employs very Western modes of argument. And its understanding of individuality and community is very Western as well. In Christianity faith is an individual decision, but the individual must then become part of a community (i.e. a church). In Hinduism, one's religion is determined essentially by birth, but one's religious practice can be individual (e.g. there's no dictum to join a church and submit oneself to the leadership). Hinduism and Christianity fundamentally disagree on the importance of family. In Hindu culture it's common for brothers and sisters to live together with their parents into adulthood and marriage. This disagrees with the very beginning of the Bible, which says, "therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife." How can Christianity be universal when it disagrees with the very principles on which Indian Hindu culture is based?

And this is not just some academic discussion. Missionaries in India are destroying entire communities by converting Hindus and then forcing them to cut all ties with their "pagan" families. Christianity ruins families. It would be better if Christian missionaries would stick to converting Westerners in their own countries who have turned to atheism. A white atheist who becomes a Christian can very easily get along with his family, who probably have Christian roots. But for an Indian to convert to Christianity means that he must declare war on his family and culture.

The fact is that Christianity is as much a Western religion as Hinduism is an Indian one. This doesn't mean that we can't all peacefully coexist, but the Western Christians really need to stop sending missionaries to India. Let them preach all the hellfire and brimstone that they please in their churches, but I wish that they would fix their own materialistic culture instead of poisoning ours.

[atanu]

On the Silent Unborn Music


Danger from materialistic translators and materialistic thinkers

Possibly the spirit wants some people to remain unaware of it. So they translate aja ekapad as 'one footed goat' or similar. They see penis in linga. They also see exhortation to violence and war in scriptures.

I found this excellent observation of Antonio T. de Nicolas:

For example, reading other people's translations of the Rig Veda, to which I had dedicated several books and my own translations, I was dismayed at the following. The Sanskrit phrase: aja ekapad which literally means "aja" the unborn, unmanifested, "ekapada" one (musical) measure, or as St. John of the Cross called it " the silent music," is translated by a modern, respected Orientalist as " the one footed goat." The translator, coming from the left side of the neocortex, found that in old Phoenician and in Hebrew "aja" also means goat, so it took the translator no time to cover the "unmanifested" with a goat.

This example pales in comparison to the biological atrocities the Christian stories have inflicted on believers with no spiritual exercises. From Yahweh to Mary, mother of Jesus, there are left brain prestidigitations, to establish the legitimacy of Jesus' birth that have kept theologians awake for centuries and have caused pain to believers. In other words, if faith were based on the false beliefs they forced on people, God would have no chance. But, perhaps, the myths they gave us are simply attached to their wrong models. They are obsolete. Faith is one space beyond, before any stories.

The story here:http://www.infinityfoundation.com/ma...l_frameset.htm (a good esoteric write up).

Om Namah Shivaya

[Harjas Kaur]

Danger from materialistic translators and materialistic thinkers

Possibly the spirit wants some people to remain unaware of it. So they translate aja ekapad as 'one footed goat' or similar. They see penis in linga. They also see exhortation to violence and war in scriptures.

For one thing, this is assuming there is a spiritual message in Abrahamic scriptures to be distorted by translators. Before you can assume a spiritual interpretation as corruption, it needs to be analyzed whether the corruption was already there, present in those scriptures. In which case it would be "materialistic scriptures," rather then translators fault. The Christian scriptures are the most studied scriptures in the world, entire Universities have been dedicated to their scholarship. I do not think we are looking at simplistic mistakes in translation.

Take for example the Jewish Torah, written in Hebrew and added to historical texts such as Kings, written in Aramaic, then a thousand year leap to a "New Testament" written in Greek. Where is the basis of "sruti" in such a construction? Is there a revealed spiritual truth in the Pauline scriptures written a hundred years after the lifetime of a historical Jesus by a man who never met him?

You see, Christian scriptures have written about a man, they were never authored by him. You have competing extant political scenarios in each of these accounts. On one hand the gospels themselves reflect the divisions between the current kingship and authority of an illegitimate high priesthood, as there were competing dynasties. Jesus and John the Baptist were reflecting the "legitimate" legacy and claims being made such as "true High Priest" and "true son of King David." For that there would have to be a "false" authority and that would be in King Herod as descendent of the Maccabean dynasty (non-Davidic line) and illegitimacy of the non-Tzadokite Priesthood.

Regarding Jesus Kingly lineage:
3 The Good News is about his Son. In his earthly life he was born into King David’s family line,4 ~Romans chap. 1

Regarding John-the-Baptist's Priestly lineage:
5In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. ~Luke chap. 1

Regarding confrontation of illegitimate authorities of the day:
7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. ~Mat. chap. 3

Incipient anti-Semitism has long been part of the Christian scriptures, reflecting the bias of the authority of the Holy Roman Catholic Church as the compiler of the Christian Bible. So there is a scenario where the Roman governor Pontius Pilate has a wife who is a "secret" Christian, who has warning dreams telling her husband not to do anything to Jesus. Pilate "washes his hands" absolving himself even as he is the sole authority to execute Jesus, blame gets transferred onto the Jews as the instigators of the crucifixion. This is the origin of the Jewish "blood curse."

Ιδων δε ο Πιλατος οτι ουδεν ωφελει αλλα μαλλον θορυβος γινεται, λαβων υδωρ απενιψατο τας χειρας απεναντι του οχλου, λεγων αθωος ειμι απο του αιματος του δικαιου τουτου; υμεις οψεσθε. Και αποκριθεις πας ο λαος ειπεν, το αιμα αυτου εφ ημας και επι τα τεκνα ημων. Greek New Testament

Videns autem Pilatus quia nihil proficeret sed magis tumultus fieret, accepta aqua lavit manus coram populo, dicens innocens ego sum a sanguine iusti huius: vos videritis. Et respondens universus populus dixit: Sanguis eius super nos et super filios nostros. Vulgate

When Pilate saw that he could not prevail, but rather that a tumult was beginning, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, "I am innocent of the blood of this just person. See ye to it." Then answered all the people and said, "His blood be on us, and on our children!" (KJV)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_curse

With these kind of political undercurrents weaving throughout the scriptural cannon, how can translations alone be blamed? The very construction of the Christian religion has been political and exclusionary, confrontational and condemning. In it's very construction it posits a true and a false, a divine and a satanic, a blessed and a cursed worldview.

Pontius Pilate washes his hands of responsibility

The Children of the Devil

42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."~John chap. 8

9I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. 10

So who do the Christian missionaries think the Hindu's are? Legitimate or illegitimate spiritual lineage? Children of God or the devil? You see, it's no mistake of translation or materialism of interpreters. The Christian scriptures themselves, just as the Muslim Koran, are the problem. And that is why they have given birth to thousand years of warfare and intolerant suppression of different religions...because of what they TEACH, and not only how they are interpreted.

[sanjaya]

So who do the Christian missionaries think the Hindu's are? Legitimate or illegitimate spiritual lineage? Children of God or the devil? You see, it's no mistake of translation or materialism of interpreters. The Christian scriptures themselves, just as the Muslim Koran, are the problem. And that is why they have given birth to thousand years of warfare and intolerant suppression of different religions...because of what they TEACH, and not only how they are interpreted.

That's a good point. Christianity teaches that there are two types of people in the world: the people of God and the people of the devil. To be fair, Hinduism teaches something similar,

There are only two types (or castes) of human beings in this world: The divine, or the wise; and the demonic, or the ignorant. The divine has been described at length, now hear from Me about the demonic, O Arjuna. Persons of demonic nature do not know what to do and what not to do. They neither have purity nor good conduct nor truthfulness. They say: The world is unreal, without a substratum, without a God, and without an order. Sexual union of man and woman alone and nothing else causes the world. Adhering to this wrong atheist view, these degraded souls — with small intellect and cruel deeds ¾ are born as enemies for the destruction of the world.

-- Sri Krishna (Bhagavad Gita 16:6-9)

Sri Krishna says that whether one is of divine or demonic lineage depends on their personal moral traits. On the contrary, Christianity teaches that this lineage is based on whether or not one is a Christian,

Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. (John 1:12-13)

This is party where the "born again" phrase comes from. This doctrine says that salvation comes by belief in religious creeds and not moral conduct. Yes, Christianity does teach a lot of right moral behavior. But any Christian will say that a bad person who believes in Jesus will go to heaven, whereas a good person who believes in another religion will go to an eternity in hell. Of course Christianity also says that there's no such thing as a good person, because someone who commits even one sin in his life is a bad person.

So Hindus are out of luck by default. No matter how much good we do in our lives, and no matter how much we surrender to God's will, Christians still believe we are sinners destined for hell, because we refuse to give up our culture and convert to our former colonizers' Western religion. Christians will tell us that they don't hate non-Christians, but that they are trying to convert us because they love us and want us to be saved. However, I have observed that this belief in salvation-by-religious profession leads evangelical Christians to treat unbelievers much differently. Most Hindus I know don't choose their social relationships based on religion. Christians, on the other hand, have their very own culture based on religious belief. Evangelical Christians only form friendships with other Christians; in fact their churches teach them that they should only form friendships with non-Christians in order to convert them. Christians have Christian music, Christian radio, Christian television, Christian clubs, and even Christian clothing. As much as Christians protest that their belief in hell doesn't lead to hatred of non-Christians, it does precisely that. It's basically a form of segregation, except that it's based on religious profession instead of race.

In a way this reminds me of conservative Islamic law. Many fundamentalist Muslims segregate themselves in small communities as well, where they use Sharia law to form heirarchies and control each other. Christians likewise control their fellow believers within the small societies that they form. Don't get me wrong, they're not nearly as bad as their fundamentalist Muslim counterparts. But the underlying philosophy is the same. Believers are the "good people," regardless of how they behave, and other religions are likewise the "bad people," also regardless of how they behave.

[Eastern Mind]

Vanakkam:

I suggest anyone google "flirt to convert" if you want real lows in this regard. Basically offering sexual favours in return for converting. Nice.

Aum Namasivaya

[sunyata07]

Vanakkam:

I suggest anyone google "flirt to convert" if you want real lows in this regard. Basically offering sexual favours in return for converting. Nice.

Aum Namasivaya

Christian missionaries and sexual favours? I googled it, just because I couldn't really believe it at first. Just when I thought it wasn't possible for some Evangelists to sink any lower! I hope no lonely male is so desperate for female company that he would actually consider joining such a website! Ugh... pitching religion as a sex dating network? The very idea is repulsive. In fact, isn't the whole concept behind such a dating network completely contradictory to some of the Bible's more traditional teachings on remaining chaste before marriage?

Thanks for sharing, EM. I don't think I could have believed it otherwise.

OM Shanti

[sanjaya]

To be fair to the Christians with regard to missionary dating, all of the evangelical Christians I know believe that this is a detestable practice. They don't believe it's detestable primarily because it's cheap and disrespectful to God, but because it might tempt the dating missionaries to sin by having sex with/marrying non-Christians. The Wikipedia article that one can find by Googling says that missionary dating is often used as an excuse for Christians to date people of the opposite sex that they are interested in without inviting the rebuke of their fellow Christians. But again, whether evangelicals oppose missionary dating for the right or wrong reasons, at least many of them seem to oppose it (according to my personal experience and Wikipedia).

Really I think that the existence of missionary dating is merely a symptom of a deeper problem in evangelical Christianity: evangelicals treat their religion as though it were a product to be sold. Here in America they have actually adopted many of the techniques of business marketing, such as flyers, television ads, billboards, etc. Famous American pastor Rick Warren, author of "The Purpose-Driven Life," and pastor of Saddleback Church, is well known for propagating his gospel message with the same strategies employed by marketing firms. When churches launch advertising campaigns like this, when their "worship" consists of loud music reminiscent of a rock concert (they do this to get more people to come to church), and when a pastor's thirty minute sermon consists of twenty minutes of stand-up comedy, it's hard to take Christianity seriously. And when one doesn't take his religion seriously, when the only thing on one's mind is propagating the message and making more converts, then I suppose that some will deviate from the religion's moral teachings and use romantic flirtation to entice conversion.

[Harjas Kaur]

Amra jio,

There is a difference between an overly righteous attitude toward sex, and an understanding that the muladhara chakra is totally dictating a person's life so they have no freedom but operate under an external influence giving their power away.

The mind is like a rubber band. Pulled to extremes it's going to snap into the opposite extreme. Again, this is being controlled by external factors. It's reactivity, not choice, not operating from freedom. It's tension without ease, heaviness without lightness. The whole point of tantric philosophy is to understand how the mind operates, how the impulses, vasanas, reactions control you and take your freedom away. Any pleasures experienced within the burden of materiality are fleeting and ultimately unsatisfactory. You can hold someone in intimate embrace and still feel miles away all alone and unloved, uncherished. The thing people are seeking isn't found in physical embrace or drugs. What the whole world is yearning after is ecstacy. You won't find it in debachery. You will at some point in your life, have to direct those same sensual energies upwards, and purify those blocks of mind, body and heart. We all have them.

Nothing is more deeply wounded than human sexuality. It is at one point the most vulnerable part of ourselves, and that's why deeply cherishing our humanity is absolutely required for any kind of depth spiritual work. Otherwise we will simply split off what we reject deep in ourselves and throw self-projections of hatred everywhere. This is the root cause of abuses in religious orders, of things like the priest child molestation scandals, etc. And it's not limited to Catholic priests or Christian religion, though perhaps it is worst there, because as you noted, the yogic spiritual science of mind is not present in those teachings. So sexuality becomes subsumed into a form of self-rejections, projections and swinging uncontrollably to opposite extremes.

This energy must find release somewhere.

Bramacharya isn't simply "celibacy." Exactly what would be the point of it? If we live in a world of sensation as sensate beings, WHY would we renounce our basic impulses? So on the one hand, by simple definition, "celibacy" is incorrect. People can hardly be chaste with their husband or wife, let alone practice something like bramacharya.

But I think bramacharya is most misunderstood in context of spiritual sadhana. It's not merely about restraint. It's about redirection of vital energies. If you can't redirect those energies, then I suppose it's like the horse running off and dragging the rider. Even in indulgence you will be unsatisfied. Wanting, needing, lusting after something, not having what one deeply desires, is pain. Having something for only a few minutes and losing the essence of it immediately after attaining it, is pain.

Bramacharya isn't about not having. It's about reaching the stage of being undisturbed by longing. If you are redirecting those energies, you will become a true bhakta. You will experience absolute satisfaction in a far more lasting way because you are having a love affair with your Divine Beloved. I'll tell you the truth. I've never been married. And YOU don't know what you're missing! If you dissipate your vital energies physically, you won't be energetically able to maintain and have ecstatic blissful states. You can raise those energies to a higher frequency and experience them even more intensely with bhakti. For another thing, I am blessed to have a shaktipat Guru, and in my Guru's presence I can get very high for hours. When you experience this kind of thing, sexuality is just not even interesting. It just has nothing to offer which would even come close.

So it is my assertion that the abuse of sex seen in the world, and not just western, comes from experiencing ourselves at the lowest possible energetic level where the satisfaction is experienced below the gut, in a selfish and demanding way and has gotten stuck there and is not able to rise to a level which transcends the limits of the small self. It is certainly not the result of self-denials, but of self-rejections and projected anguish at the "hated" other who never gives enough of what we deeply want and desperately need, who is really a reflection of our deepest wounded nature.

True love is inner reconciliation with the lower AND the higher elements of our nature. It unites in a more complete way the flow of our spiritual energy. A true bramachari/bramacharini is able to redirect and more spontaneously and selflessly give to others energetically and in sincerity. This is the heart and power of something like Ramakrishna missions and charities. But if bramacharins were wasting that vital energy in selfish personal and petty disturbed relationships, I can assure you, the charities would be pointless because people's goals would be self-satisfaction, their thoughts, efforts and desires would be this, and not about selfless giving. The energies would be directed to prettier and more expensive houses, cars, clothing, jewelry, things, etc. Because the root nature is sensual. Only with cultivating the spiritual practice and discipline of redirection can any kind of karma yoga actually work.

And only thorough karma yoga are we liberating bondages of our reactive mind through process of "other-directed" purification. This is the process which will heal our battered human relationships of which sexuality is our deepest part. True love of others comes from the self-surrender and total self-giving of a mother and father for their children and for each other. The true power of the marriage relationship isn't the sex. It's the self-giving. All those conflicts and fights over the years are intended to polish the spiritual diamond of the heart. The sexuality is entirely secondary. After a marriage of 40 or 50 years, when one partner is dying, and the other feels so bonded, so close, so spiritually intimate that the very soul is breaking at the thought of parting, this is real love, this is real relationship. Everything else is glitter, superficial sparkles.

When the time comes for you to die, the physical encounters won't be what matters to you, but the love in the moments which came to you through unexpected sources, a smile, a look, a kind word, a kind deed. The compassionate heart of the world is the treasure and bond you will carry with you as a gift. You will take with you, not memories of physical embraces with equally selfish, uncaring encounters, but instead the essence of true love which you experienced with a child, a dog, a best friend, an injured stranger, even a flower. What gets you high will take you higher. Sexuality is just not the highest. The moments of freedom are the highest. And the freest you can be is something beyond limits which expands your heart. I'm not saying sexuality is nothing or that sexuality isn't powerful, it is. I'm just saying, there's so much more. To limit the definition of satisfaction and bliss to something physical like sexual encounter is really an injustice to ecstatic bliss.

For example, recently I had the experience where I saw a crippled old woman in line for darshan with Guru. There was something in the vulnerability of the moment where she tore off a flower from the bouquet she was holding for Guru and gave it to a nearby child. There was something in the look of frailty, her temporariness as a human being had a sweetness, some quality of Daya that overflowed from her actions and for some reason it caused tears to flow from my eyes. Because there was something so fragile, so temporary, and so precious in what I saw in that moment. This crippled old woman became the most beautiful Divine Beloved for briefest instant and inside my heart was dancing because I saw glimpse of what hides behind appearances. I saw a bit of the everlasting and undying eternal, and that is swaroop of love.

The whole world is chasing after love in so many sensate experiences. Chasing and rarely finding because the world chases from selfish need and not out of love of selfless giving. The world wants sex, it doesn't want to give the responsibility of relationship, protection, honor and sacrifice. And so it is always hungry for the things it cannot find: intimacy, selfless love, true surrender, daya. A man may marry 5 or 6 times and never experience the love he received from his mother. But this is because he never learned to give the love like a mother. He doesn't really love his wife except as selfish object of his needs. So he is dismayed when the wife doesn't really love him back, but only uses him for monetary support and trinkets.

It is a hurt and suffering world. But truth, Christian missionaries have nothing to offer to relieve the deepest levels of suffering and in fact have distorted teachings which only compound them.

Namaste jio, everyone is a paapi on some level. You are only my closest heart. You are only my own soul. Don't worry. Just cling to Maa Devi with devotion and surrender. Sing bhajans with loving heart every morning and evening and try to practice a little yoga. If you cling to Maa, She will lift you up and never let you go, no matter what.

[Eastern Mind]

For example, recently I had the experience where I saw a crippled old woman in line for darshan with Guru. There was something in the vulnerability of the moment where she tore off a flower from the bouquet she was holding for Guru and gave it to a nearby child. There was something in the look of frailty, her temporariness as a human being had a sweetness, some quality of Daya that overflowed from her actions and for some reason it caused tears to flow from my eyes. Because there was something so fragile, so temporary, and so precious in what I saw in that moment. This crippled old woman became the most beautiful Divine Beloved for briefest instant and inside my heart was dancing because I saw glimpse of what hides behind appearances. I saw a bit of the everlasting and undying eternal, and that is swaroop of love.

HK: Beautiful. Observations like that take us to higher chakras, even temporarily. Thank you for sharing this experience.



In regards to the 'flirt to convert' topic, I was merely pointing it out as how low they can go, but I agree with Sanjaya that it would be rare.

However, in the dross world of 'ordinary' souls, it happens all the time. How else can we explain interfaith marriage, adultery, or conversions for marriage other than by lust? Surely an intelligent being would predict problems down the road when partners are facing such a huge difference as different faiths.

Aum Namasivaya