The Danger of christian missionaries in India!

[amra]

Thanks for a lovely post Harjas Kaur. I hope I did not offend anyone with my rudeness you are all correct it is not appropriate here.

[Harjas Kaur]

Perhaps it's best to have the conversation because I'm sure those are thoughts and questions on a lot of people's minds Amra Ji. So often we see posts confusing the nature of sexual restraint with something undesirable or unattainable. Certainly Western culture seems to worship sexuality, at least exploit it for commercial gain.

As for missionaries, everyone knows they are not ordinary and sincere Christians or Muslims living a quiet life, but government representatives who stoop to lowest and most culturally offensive levels. There is already an exposed scandal of Muslim missionaries forcibly converting Sikh and Hindu girls through date rape and taking photos. Some girls who left families and went along with Muslim marriages to Pakistan thinking they will marry their boyfriends found themselves overseas being delivered to brothels. So it is absolutely important to expose these deceptions of missionaries. At the same time it's not meant to heap scorn on any particular religion to do this, but missionaries having aggressive agendas justify evil doings. Sadly, I don't think these incidents are rare, they are a missionaries underhanded tactics. We forget missionaries get paid per convert by some organizations. It is a business like a crime family with ties to intelligence services and professional manipulation. This is why missionaries are a scourge wherever they go and wars and social instability usually follow. They are an ideological infiltration into a country and has nothing to do with "true love" or "crossed-star romances" like a Bollywood drama. Young people should absolutely be aware the dangers that exist from missionaries.

Police protect girls forced to convert to Islam
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...rt-to-islam.do

Minority Report: Freshers week 'seduction website' angers Sikhs
http://blogs.independent.co.uk/indep...nd-muslim.html

[TatTvamAsi]

Namaste Harjas Kaur ji,

A most beautiful description & explanation of Brahmacarya.

Thank you.

Namaskar.

Amra jio,

There is a difference between an overly righteous attitude toward sex, and an understanding that the muladhara chakra is totally dictating a person's life so they have no freedom but operate under an external influence giving their power away.

The mind is like a rubber band. Pulled to extremes it's going to snap into the opposite extreme. Again, this is being controlled by external factors. It's reactivity, not choice, not operating from freedom. It's tension without ease, heaviness without lightness. The whole point of tantric philosophy is to understand how the mind operates, how the impulses, vasanas, reactions control you and take your freedom away. Any pleasures experienced within the burden of materiality are fleeting and ultimately unsatisfactory. You can hold someone in intimate embrace and still feel miles away all alone and unloved, uncherished. The thing people are seeking isn't found in physical embrace or drugs. What the whole world is yearning after is ecstacy. You won't find it in debachery. You will at some point in your life, have to direct those same sensual energies upwards, and purify those blocks of mind, body and heart. We all have them.

Nothing is more deeply wounded than human sexuality. It is at one point the most vulnerable part of ourselves, and that's why deeply cherishing our humanity is absolutely required for any kind of depth spiritual work. Otherwise we will simply split off what we reject deep in ourselves and throw self-projections of hatred everywhere. This is the root cause of abuses in religious orders, of things like the priest child molestation scandals, etc. And it's not limited to Catholic priests or Christian religion, though perhaps it is worst there, because as you noted, the yogic spiritual science of mind is not present in those teachings. So sexuality becomes subsumed into a form of self-rejections, projections and swinging uncontrollably to opposite extremes.

Bramacharya isn't simply "celibacy." Exactly what would be the point of it? If we live in a world of sensation as sensate beings, WHY would we renounce our basic impulses? So on the one hand, by simple definition, "celibacy" is incorrect. People can hardly be chaste with their husband or wife, let alone practice something like bramacharya.

But I think bramacharya is most misunderstood in context of spiritual sadhana. It's not merely about restraint. It's about redirection of vital energies. If you can't redirect those energies, then I suppose it's like the horse running off and dragging the rider. Even in indulgence you will be unsatisfied. Wanting, needing, lusting after something, not having what one deeply desires, is pain. Having something for only a few minutes and losing the essence of it immediately after attaining it, is pain.

Bramacharya isn't about not having. It's about reaching the stage of being undisturbed by longing. If you are redirecting those energies, you will become a true bhakta. You will experience absolute satisfaction in a far more lasting way because you are having a love affair with your Divine Beloved. I'll tell you the truth. I've never been married. And YOU don't know what you're missing! If you dissipate your vital energies physically, you won't be energetically able to maintain and have ecstatic blissful states. You can raise those energies to a higher frequency and experience them even more intensely with bhakti. For another thing, I am blessed to have a shaktipat Guru, and in my Guru's presence I can get very high for hours. When you experience this kind of thing, sexuality is just not even interesting. It just has nothing to offer which would even come close.

So it is my assertion that the abuse of sex seen in the world, and not just western, comes from experiencing ourselves at the lowest possible energetic level where the satisfaction is experienced below the gut, in a selfish and demanding way and has gotten stuck there and is not able to rise to a level which transcends the limits of the small self. It is certainly not the result of self-denials, but of self-rejections and projected anguish at the "hated" other who never gives enough of what we deeply want and desperately need, who is really a reflection of our deepest wounded nature.

True love is inner reconciliation with the lower AND the higher elements of our nature. It unites in a more complete way the flow of our spiritual energy. A true bramachari/bramacharini is able to redirect and more spontaneously and selflessly give to others energetically and in sincerity. This is the heart and power of something like Ramakrishna missions and charities. But if bramacharins were wasting that vital energy in selfish personal and petty disturbed relationships, I can assure you, the charities would be pointless because people's goals would be self-satisfaction, their thoughts, efforts and desires would be this, and not about selfless giving. The energies would be directed to prettier and more expensive houses, cars, clothing, jewelry, things, etc. Because the root nature is sensual. Only with cultivating the spiritual practice and discipline of redirection can any kind of karma yoga actually work.

And only thorough karma yoga are we liberating bondages of our reactive mind through process of "other-directed" purification. This is the process which will heal our battered human relationships of which sexuality is our deepest part. True love of others comes from the self-surrender and total self-giving of a mother and father for their children and for each other. The true power of the marriage relationship isn't the sex. It's the self-giving. All those conflicts and fights over the years are intended to polish the spiritual diamond of the heart. The sexuality is entirely secondary. After a marriage of 40 or 50 years, when one partner is dying, and the other feels so bonded, so close, so spiritually intimate that the very soul is breaking at the thought of parting, this is real love, this is real relationship. Everything else is glitter, superficial sparkles.

When the time comes for you to die, the physical encounters won't be what matters to you, but the love in the moments which came to you through unexpected sources, a smile, a look, a kind word, a kind deed. The compassionate heart of the world is the treasure and bond you will carry with you as a gift. You will take with you, not memories of physical embraces with equally selfish, uncaring encounters, but instead the essence of true love which you experienced with a child, a dog, a best friend, an injured stranger, even a flower. What gets you high will take you higher. Sexuality is just not the highest. The moments of freedom are the highest. And the freest you can be is something beyond limits which expands your heart. I'm not saying sexuality is nothing or that sexuality isn't powerful, it is. I'm just saying, there's so much more. To limit the definition of satisfaction and bliss to something physical like sexual encounter is really an injustice to ecstatic bliss.

For example, recently I had the experience where I saw a crippled old woman in line for darshan with Guru. There was something in the vulnerability of the moment where she tore off a flower from the bouquet she was holding for Guru and gave it to a nearby child. There was something in the look of frailty, her temporariness as a human being had a sweetness, some quality of Daya that overflowed from her actions and for some reason it caused tears to flow from my eyes. Because there was something so fragile, so temporary, and so precious in what I saw in that moment. This crippled old woman became the most beautiful Divine Beloved for briefest instant and inside my heart was dancing because I saw glimpse of what hides behind appearances. I saw a bit of the everlasting and undying eternal, and that is swaroop of love.

The whole world is chasing after love in so many sensate experiences. Chasing and rarely finding because the world chases from selfish need and not out of love of selfless giving. The world wants sex, it doesn't want to give the responsibility of relationship, protection, honor and sacrifice. And so it is always hungry for the things it cannot find: intimacy, selfless love, true surrender, daya. A man may marry 5 or 6 times and never experience the love he received from his mother. But this is because he never learned to give the love like a mother. He doesn't really love his wife except as selfish object of his needs. So he is dismayed when the wife doesn't really love him back, but only uses him for monetary support and trinkets.

It is a hurt and suffering world. But truth, Christian missionaries have nothing to offer to relieve the deepest levels of suffering and in fact have distorted teachings which only compound them.

Namaste jio, everyone is a paapi on some level. You are only my closest heart. You are only my own soul. Don't worry. Just cling to Maa Devi with devotion and surrender. Sing bhajans with loving heart every morning and evening and try to practice a little yoga. If you cling to Maa, She will lift you up and never let you go, no matter what.

[Eastern Mind]

Vanakkam all: This is a continuation of my thoughts from another thread, placed here more appropriately.

Even some of us here on HDF do not recognise the danger. It is a cancer or a weed that slowly creeps. In a way the Muslims at least are more open about it. The Christians are subtle. Part of the problem just lies in the Hindus niceness. He lets the Christian in because he is a nice guy. But in so doing it is like an invitation to a flood. The western and Chritian mind set slowly eatrs away. It is violence against Hindus themselves. One conversion will turn brother against brother, destroying the foundation of family itself, which in turn cause feuds and communal disharmony. My earlier example was our (including mine) use of the Gregorian calender's New Year. There is nothing inherently wrong with this, it just demonstrates the subtlety of the whole thing. It is well known history that when an aggressive society meets a passive society, the aggressive society either destroys or assimilates the passive one. So if we want our Dear Sanatana Dharma to disappear over the next 100 years or so, let's keep sending our kids to Christian schools and colleges. Lets not protest to anyone. Lets keep the meat flowing into India. Lets keep the sexuality and slow erosion of morals come alongside the meat. I hope to see you in a future lifetime in that Pew looking confused. Maybe some other light will shine on us together and we can walk out of the place, and find some temple together where we can worship in peace, provided one is still standing.

Aum namasivaya

[sanjaya]

EM, I've noticed the same thing with Hindu niceness. And we can see this with the issue of friendship evangelism, which has already been discussed to some extent on HDF. When Christians invite Hindus to their churches, the Hindus tend to believe that we're participating in some sort of cultural exchange. The Christians, on the other hand, know that they are engaged in a single-minded effort to culturally assimilate us into Western Christianity. This is precisely how Hindu students come from India to study here in the United States, and are slowly indoctrinated by false friends into Christianity. And because of the inherent Hindu resistance and/or obliviousness to the notion of formal religious conversion, these individuals are left confused about their religious identity. I think that even some Christians aren't aware of the connection between religion and culture, and are thus unaware of the damage that they cause to these people and their families by their evangelistic activities. Some Christians honestly (and falsely) believe that a person can be a cultural Indian and an evangelical Christian at the same time. Yes, I know that there have been Christians living in India for over a thousand years. But this evangelical brand of Christianity is characteristically Western, and is antithetical to Indian culture.

As far as the problem of Christian schools and colleges goes, I think that this is largely our own fault. Yes, the Christians are subtly trying to erode the Hindu roots of India by educating Indians with a Christian mindset. But you've got to hand it to the Christians: they're good at teaching kids English, math, and science. It's our responsibility to provide India with the same high quality of education, and without the Christian religious indoctrination. I believe the same apathetic mentality is responsible for thes erosion of morality among Indian Hindus. My parents always told me that the sort of things which happen in America would never be tolerated in India. But I know a lot of Indians who grew up in India, came to the US for high school or college, and wasted no time in acquiring non-Hindu, live-in girlfriends. Obviously, going to temple and doing pujas to God are the last thing on their minds.

I believe Hindus need to start recognizing the problem of Christian evangelism. I'm not suggesting a militant posture. But when evangelical Christians invite us to church, we could at least bother to ask what their purpose is in doing so. If they play the cultural exchange card, we could likewise ask them to come to our temples, and let their shouts about idolatry and devil worship expose the true agenda. Or better yet, we could just politely decline and tell them that Hindus don't convert to Western religions. Hindus in India have the more difficult task of building an educational system that can rival the Christian schools. And for God's sake, let's ban missionary work in India before it's too late. In some countries Christian missionaries are beheaded. I don't think it would be so bad for us to at least punish evangelism by asking that missionaries return to their home countries.

[Eastern Mind]

Vanakkam Sanjaya:

I'm happy you have figured it out. One less potential Christian..

from the other thread I backed out of...

I understand this book thing completely. We cherish the vidya. Those who cherish the book alone are blind to the vidya. So those of you who honour the book itself in such a way, if given a book of vile hatred towards Hindus, and full of pornographic images would still honour the book? Sorry, but in my opinion you need to rethink this.

I think when the custom developed (not dropping, not sitting on, placing it to one's eyes, etc.) most likely nearly 100% of books were scripture. Even fiction probably was ethical, like puranas telling stories to teach. Back then book were all sacred. But times have changed, folks. Simply not true today.


quote from Maharadha .... The written word is sarasvati , vak devi herself and is treated with respect.

Pornography? Hatred? Child porn? These are crimes in my country.

Aum Namasivaya

[sanjaya]

Vanakkam Sanjaya:

I'm happy you have figured it out. One less potential Christian..

Heh, for what it's worth, I find it virtually impossible that I'll ever become a Christian. At one point in my life I was much more of a potential Christian. I've read the Bible, gone to churches, understood evangelical Christian doctrine, etc. In short, I've played out the evangelical Christian's "come to church with me" request all the way to the end, and found nothing of spiritual value. I guess Christianity isn't so bad for Westerners; in general it keeps them out of trouble. So I don't mind evangelicals converting atheist Westerners in their own countries (except that this creates more missionaries). But for a Hindu to become a Christian is for him to go many steps in the wrong direction. Not to mention the societal strife it causes.

from the other thread I backed out of...

I understand this book thing completely. We cherish the vidya. Those who cherish the book alone are blind to the vidya. So those of you who honour the book itself in such a way, if given a book of vile hatred towards Hindus, and full of pornographic images would still honour the book? Sorry, but in my opinion you need to rethink this.

I think when the custom developed (not dropping, not sitting on, placing it to one's eyes, etc.) most likely nearly 100% of books were scripture. Even fiction probably was ethical, like puranas telling stories to teach. Back then book were all sacred. But times have changed, folks. Simply not true today.


quote from Maharadha .... The written word is sarasvati , vak devi herself and is treated with respect.

Pornography? Hatred? Child porn? These are crimes in my country.

Aum Namasivaya

Ah yes, the dropping the Bible in the river issue. I just read that thread. I don't know that I'd personally go so far as to drop a Bible in a river, but I'd probably not waste my time reading it. As children most of us are taught to respect the written word in all its forms. However, your point about child porn, hatred, etc., elucidates the fallacy of this teaching. My guess is that this is just a simplistic teaching that most of our parents teach us to instill a respect for Sarasvati and for education, and that the true Hindu teaching is a bit more restrictive than all written texts. I certainly believe in respecting Hindu Scriptures. I also believe in respecting academic works and even literature.

As for the Bible...I'm not really so sure what to do. We Hindus are quick to point to all of the moral absurdities in the Bible's Old Testament. But I doubt that anyone here would burn a copy of the Torah in the presence of Jews, almost all of whom have great respect for Hindus and Hinduism. On the other hand, the Bible's New Testament contains many teachings that agree with Hinduism, if you simply subtract out the passages about religious conversion and separatism. So in a sense, we're judging the book by the behavior of its followers. Is this a good policy to take, or should we judge the book by its contents?

On one thing I think we can all agree. Reading the Bible, going to church, and otherwise exploring Christianity is a waste of time, and is probably harmful. Evangelical Christians see "exploration" of Christianity only as a means to the end of conversion. Once the evangelicals perceive that a Hindu is interested, they'll latch on to him like parasites and will not stop until they've converted him.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Everyone: Take a look at this fascinating list of languages,mostly long since gone that were at one time thriving, until Christian European missionaries arrived in the Americas. I found it pretty amazing and informative. Most people have no idea about the rich diversity of North America in the past, just as most are unaware of the rich diversity within Sanatana Dharma.

http://www.native-languages.org/

Aum Namasivaya