VOID Void void

[atanu]

Namaskar,

As far as I know Bhaktajan is not a christian missionary but an ISKCON member. Bhaktajan you can correct me if I am wrong.

Bhaktajan is also not Datta.

Thanks,

Namaskar Satay,

Please examine the above in the light of the following and please accept the request made in it.

From atanu
Request to Admin:

The 'In the Begining there was the Void and God said let there be Light', may please be retained in my and Bhaktajan's posts, so as to obtain the correct perspective from both sides.

Om

[devotee]

Namaste Bhaktajan,

I am still awaiting your response to my post # 34 on page 4 of this thread.

OM

[bhaktajan]

====> Please quote definition of void from the Vedas?
I actually do not know "definition of void from the Vedas" nor a sholka that pertains to what I've been speaking of . . . I could look it up . . . {Hmm? akasha, ukta-pradhana(?), sunya-pura(?), Adi-pradhana, MahaVisnuTattvanidra-akasha(?)} . . . the Buddhist certainly have it at the tip of their tongues for sure . . . funny that I am speaking of The Void inregards to sunya-vadi tattva and you request the scriptural reference for my topic of that which is "eternally unchanging, timeless, omnipresent, untainted by kala, karma, 3-Guna-prakriti; and in sunyavadi tradition, untainted by jivas & Ishvara/Ishvaras". If you know the word in the sastra that defines the Void please tell me. I will never then forget from then onwards.

"The Void" is principality of its own accord! ---You do agree do you not???

Thus "The Void" is beyond all Prakriti.

But!--- "The Void" is enveloped by 'another'.
The Void exists within the precints of a Grander Provider of Space.

That Grander Provider of Space is the source of the room for The Void "to be" ----and, it is also the source of all 'potentiality' aka Pradhana aka Prakriti/Shakti.

Both The Void (Space) and the Prakriti/Shakti (all 'potentiality') evidently or 'actually IMO' are addressed with the same nomenclature, "Brahman".

So, Brahman, Paramatma & Bhagwan are all different. Right ? Please quote scriptures which say so.
Right! All Different ---like both sides of a Three-Sided Coin! ---You do agree do you not???

Gita Says so. Visnu exists in these three aspects ---that comprise all of the Cosmos entoto.

Bg 13.24:
One who understands this philosophy concerning material nature [The Void (Space) and the Prakriti/Shakti], the living entity [Paramatma] and the interaction of the modes of nature is sure to attain liberation. He will not take birth here again, regardless of his present position.

"Fame of Void" ? What do you mean by this term. Is Void famous ? Please elaborate what is fame of Brahman ?
Buddhist Philosophy; The basis for Calulus mathmathics; The basis of the Decimil System; The Goal of Theoretical Mathemathians; etc

I remember a math school teacher explain a math quandry (BTW, I have always disagreed with this teacher regarding this thesis):

1] Stand ten meters distance from a wall

--and then approach the Wall and,

2] stand 1/2 the distance (5 meters) to the wall
3] stand 1/2 the distance (2.5 meters) to the wall
4] stand 1/2 the distance (1.2 meters) to the wall
5] stand 1/2 the distance (.61 meters) to the wall
6] stand 1/2 the distance (.30 meters) to the wall
Repeat endlessly] stand 1/2 the distance to the wall each time . . .

My Teacher claimed is each time you moved only half the distant toward the wall ---you will never reach the wall! ---Do you agree with my school teacher??? I do not agree! I think that eventually there is absolute Zero.---Do you agree with me???

"Auspices of Brahman" ? What do you mean to say by use of this term ? Can you please elaborate by quoting scriptures ?

"Auspices of Brahman" IOW 'Under the sphere of Influence that is ascribed to Brahman as per the definition of Brahman.' No Need to quote sastra for this. "Auspices" simply means [as per my SpellCheck! LOL] help; sponsorship; patronage; backing; support].

Please describe Shunya. What is your understanding of this according to Vedanta ? Is Shunya just what we understand in Mathematics ?

Shunya (sunya) = Zed/Zeta/Zero/Nill/Nada/Nirvana/Zip.

Sunya is zero. And in regards to theology there are two schools that encompass the Vedic theology: God as a Person //or// God as a Non-person. Ergo, the two goals are different among these two schools.
One School aims at the soul's merging into a Non-state-of-existance-beyond-samsara-and-prakriti ---this for all intents and purposes equates to making ones soul achieve Zero-Ness aka The Void.

The other School aims at the soul's regaining their spiritural sva-rupa, eternal-form, beyond the material world we are in that is expanding from Mahavishnu's breathing

2] Shunya=Oblivion

No sunya is the Void. Oblivion = Samsara (Birth & re-birth since time-immemorial---when each time is simply occupied with eating/sleeping/mating/defending in varying grades of life as the whole-and-whole purpose of being, ad-infinitum)

So, you want to say that Brahman is oblivion ? In which scripture it is written ?
So Brahman is the Name of God for you! ---That is all!

Actually, it is written that Brahman Realisation is a milestone on the Moksha-marga-patha ---and that to leave behind or lose the chance to go beyond Brahman is the definition of Oblivion. But I do think that the scriptures use the term "Hellish" rather than Oblivion.

But I have advanced training that starts where Brahman leaves off ---that is why we are called vaishnavas.


Whatever you have written doesn't match with scriptures. Can you quote specific scriptures for whatever you have said in your post ?
Getting redundant here aren't we?


It is not a question of my knowledge or your knowledge. Vedas mean & are the knowledge. If you quote scriptures (not PurAnAs please) to support whatever you say otherwise it is just your speculation which has no strength to stand on its own.
"not PurAnAs please" ---My speculation is far above the capacities of the majority of world leaders counting over the past 5,102 years.

You may automatically differ with my ascertion ---but, you definitely can't count me among the Billions-of-souls that have filled the White-Pages of The Telephone Directory of All Those who have lived for the past 5 Centuries. Nope I am pursuing an absolute goal.

Don't tell anyone ---They might want to make an example of me.

That is my Opinion. BTW, I do know what I am talking about. It's on my resume. When I report for a job I inspect my boss ~not vice-versa. Like searching for a Guru, No?

You cannot simply give some opinion & assert that it is as per Vedanta without quoting Vedanta. Right ?
Yes, That is what is taught and I agree with the maxim. It is an absolute maxim.

It is the derth of good questions that is lamentable.

Anyway, School-Aptitude-Tests Scores are continually dropping among the general public. At least they may get first-rate health care for what ails them

OM
OM is the sound heard in the silence of The void.
That sound is the churning of Prakriti in the Field called Brahman.
The field is the space within the Brahmanda ---which eminates from Mahavishnu's breath.

...................

[satay]

Admin Note

Namaskar,

Namaskar Satay,

Please examine the above in the light of the following and please accept the request made in it.

Om

Thank you. Please note that I only try to delete content or posts that are against the rules of the forum. For example, if a post has personal attacks instead of focusing on the topic or if it is a spam etc. I usually either delete the whole post or save some content that is relevant to the topic.

If members don't insult each other and focus on the topic instead, my job would be much easier, however, that doesn't seem to be case lately.

Thanks,

[kd gupta]

Void, Avoid hijacking the word from scientific world to spiritual world.

A body of any material is made of molecules mass and the compacted body contains voids, smaller the void space , larger is density.

The percentage from boulders at 30% to manually compacted soil 15% and mechanically compacted soil the void ratio is 5% by volume.

Physics says that in scientific concrete work large quantity of voids gives more bleeding and in spiritual concrete work same principle applies.

[devotee]

Namaste Bhaktajan,

"Originally Posted by devotee
====> Please quote definition of void from the Vedas?"

-----> I actually do not know "definition of void from the Vedas" nor a sholka that pertains to what I've been speaking of . . . I could look it up . . . {Hmm? akasha, ukta-pradhana(?), sunya-pura(?), Adi-pradhana, MahaVisnuTattvanidra-akasha(?)} . . . the Buddhist certainly have it at the tip of their tongues for sure . . . funny that I am speaking of The Void inregards to sunya-vadi tattva and you request the scriptural reference for my topic of that which is "eternally unchanging, timeless, omnipresent, untainted by kala, karma, 3-Guna-prakriti; and in sunyavadi tradition, untainted by jivas & Ishvara/Ishvaras". If you know the word in the sastra that defines the Void please tell me. I will never then forget from then onwards.

=====> Void means emptiness as per dictionary. But you said that Void means Brahman. So, it must have scriptural support. Now you say that there is nothing in scriptures to support this. I think you are mixing Buddhist's view with Vedanta.

Shall we deduce that your assertion that Brahman is Void has no scriptural support & it is only your opinion ?

"The Void" is principality of its own accord! ---You do agree do you not???

As there is no scriptural supoort for the above view, it is difficult to accept this.

Thus "The Void" is beyond all Prakriti.

Void can exist only within Prakriti. As emptiness can exist only where material existence is .... any concept of "nothingness" can exist only when there is a concept of "something".

But!--- "The Void" is enveloped by 'another'.

What is this another ? Which scripture talks about this & where ?

The Void exists within the precints of a Grander Provider of Space.

"Grander provider of space" ??? You mean Brahman or God ?

Both The Void (Space) and the Prakriti/Shakti (all 'potentiality') evidently or 'actually IMO' are addressed with the same nomenclature, "Brahman".

So in your parlance Void = Space = Prakriti = Shakti = Brahman ??

Where is it stated in scriptures ?

"So, Brahman, Paramatma & Bhagwan are all different. Right ? Please quote scriptures which say so."

-----> Right! All Different ---like both sides of a Three-Sided Coin! ---You do agree do you not???

Both sides of three-sided coin ? Great ! How is it possible ?

Gita Says so. Visnu exists in these three aspects ---that comprise all of the Cosmos entoto.

But you said they were different !

Bg 13.24:
One who understands this philosophy concerning material nature [The Void (Space) and the Prakriti/Shakti], the living entity [Paramatma] and the interaction of the modes of nature is sure to attain liberation. He will not take birth here again, regardless of his present position.

I think you are referring to :

Ya evam vetti purusham prakritim cha guNai saha l
sarvthA vartmAnopi na sa bhUyobhijAyate ll

This verse talks about Purush & the Prakriti. Where is void here ?

"Fame of Void" ? What do you mean by this term. Is Void famous ? Please elaborate what is fame of Brahman ?

---> Buddhist Philosophy; The basis for Calulus mathmathics; The basis of the Decimil System; The Goal of Theoretical Mathemathians; etc

I remember a math school teacher ........

===> You have evaded the question.

"Auspices of Brahman" ? What do you mean to say by use of this term ? Can you please elaborate by quoting scriptures ?

----> "Auspices of Brahman" IOW 'Under the sphere of Influence that is ascribed to Brahman as per the definition of Brahman.' No Need to quote sastra for this. "Auspices" simply means [as per my SpellCheck! LOL] help; sponsorship; patronage; backing; support].

This doesn't say anything clearly. What is definition of Brahman as per scriptures ?

Please describe Shunya. What is your understanding of this according to Vedanta ? Is Shunya just what we understand in Mathematics ?

----->Shunya (sunya) = Zed/Zeta/Zero/Nill/Nada/Nirvana/Zip.

Sunya is zero. And in regards to theology there are two schools that encompass the Vedic theology: God as a Person //or// God as a Non-person. Ergo, the two goals are different among these two schools.
One School aims at the soul's merging into a Non-state-of-existance-beyond-samsara-and-prakriti ---this for all intents and purposes equates to making ones soul achieve Zero-Ness aka The Void.

Non-person is ok. But where is it written that non-person = zero = shUnya ??

Actually, it is written that Brahman Realisation is a milestone on the Moksha-marga-patha ---

Is it just a milestone or is it the destination ? Where is it written that it is just a milestone ?

and that to leave behind or lose the chance to go beyond Brahman is the definition of Oblivion. But I do think that the scriptures use the term "Hellish" rather than Oblivion.

That means there is something beyond Brahman ? What is that ? Please do quote scriptures to buttress your point.

But I have advanced training that starts where Brahman leaves off ---that is why we are called vaishnavas.

Which Vaishnava scripture says that there is something beyond Brahman ?

It would immensely help if you please quote scripture & support whatever you say so that we can avoid going in circles without getting anything worthwhile in the process.

OM

[bhaktajan]

Good thing we are not talking about "standard accounting practices" ---if so we'd appear as unable to count.

"We must deduce that The Topic "Void" is beyond your understanding of Vedanta?"

That is the question!

"The Void is the empty space that the Universe exists in!"

Is this beyond your understanding of Vedanta?

[bhaktajan]

and that to leave behind or lose the chance to go beyond Brahman is the definition of Oblivion. But I do think that the scriptures use the term "Hellish" rather than Oblivion.

That means there is something beyond Brahman ? What is that ? Please do quote scriptures to buttress your point.

Oh my Dear Devotee, The above question is wonder full to ask!

Please know that I re-posted the Quote I made above after re-reading it ---and I assure you it is in sastra, it is Vaishnava, it is esoteric, and you will learn more about it, you must approach any vaishnava in the Guadiya-matha and you will be told all of that hellish path that every Vaishnava avoids**.

I must use this tactic to respond to your request above.

be seeing you,
Bhaktajan

**Not to confused with a devotee's desire to forsake moksha so as to continue to spread the Dharma within the world of samsara (Yes, that does sound similar to the Boddhisattva's sentiment but I am speaking of the bonefide Bhakti-yogi Vaishnava).

[bhaktajan]

Devotee,
I have re-read your post ---and your questions are superb.

I will answer them best I can asap.

The real world is knocking at my door and I must at least offer water to them . . . I'll be back soon.

[bhaktajan]

Devotee wrote:

Bhaktajan says, "Void means Brahman".---I do not say this.

I say, Brahman and the Void are the same thing.

Put on your 'Thinking Cap'.

There is aVoid out there prevading everything ---if I am saying that "Brahman and the Void are the same thing" ---then the Void shares the same fame as Brahman does.

One man's void is the Vedic Transcendentalist's Brahman. Therefore, Only the Vedic Transcendentalist knows the purport of the existance of the Void.

It must be this way ---or else the claim can be made that the Void is a seperate & different sphere.

But all "Prakriti is enveloped by Brahman". Similarly any layman can agree that "Prakriti is Enveloped by the Void".

What you all are stuck on is that the "All Creative Potentiality" . . . 'ALSO KNOWN AS' ('aka') . . . "Brahman" is NOT a Void BECAUSE "All Creative Potentiality" springs forth from ________.

This is where Vaishnavism enters the picture.

"All Creative Potentiality" is impregnated into Brahman then the Void is thrown into flux and the three-guinas then do their thing.

Visnu impregnates with his vision.