Maheshvar and Krishan Bhoomi

[Gill Harley]

I agree that Indians do need to raise their morale about their country, mainly because they’ve been under various foreign occupations for more than 1,200years and the last lot, the British, put the final nail in the coffin by telling the Indians that their Vedic scripture wasn’t composed by them, but by some mythical Europeans who invaded around 1,200 BC, despite there being no evidence for such an invasion.

However, I’m not sure ‘being proud’ of your country is a very good idea for those on the path of sanathana dharma, not least because we believe in reincarnation, so how can we claim any country as our own? You are born an Indian in this lifetime – but in the last, you could have been from another country, and the one before that, another. I'm born in the UK this lifetime, but I could (and probably was!) and Indian in the last, so which country should I be proud of?

Secondly, pride is one of the tools that the ego uses to keep us trapped and apart from God consciousness. So it is better, imho, if we are going to have pride in anything, to just have pride in God, then at least any base egotistical feelings will be transformed into something better.

I believe that we should try to take a more universal attitude and see God everywhere, not just in one country. True, India has had its fair share of avatars, but there are many other countries that have had incredible spiritual teachers in the past, many of whom were persecuted, tortured and killed for trying to educate people into spiritual practices.

[Singhi Kaya]

I agree that Indians do need to raise their morale about their country, mainly because they’ve been under various foreign occupations for more than 1,200years and the last lot, the British, put the final nail in the coffin by telling the Indians that their Vedic scripture wasn’t composed by them, but by some mythical Europeans who invaded around 1,200 BC, despite there being no evidence for such an invasion.

However, I’m not sure ‘being proud’ of your country is a very good idea for those on the path of sanathana dharma, not least because we believe in reincarnation, so how can we claim any country as our own? You are born an Indian in this lifetime – but in the last, you could have been from another country, and the one before that, another. I'm born in the UK this lifetime, but I could (and probably was!) and Indian in the last, so which country should I be proud of?

Secondly, pride is one of the tools that the ego uses to keep us trapped and apart from God consciousness. So it is better, imho, if we are going to have pride in anything, to just have pride in God, then at least any base egotistical feelings will be transformed into something better.

I believe that we should try to take a more universal attitude and see God everywhere, not just in one country. True, India has had its fair share of avatars, but there are many other countries that have had incredible spiritual teachers in the past, many of whom were persecuted, tortured and killed for trying to educate people into spiritual practices.

Any effort to really bring forth a change in India which is pure and long lasting (and anywhere for that matter) has to based on Dharma. I'd agree concepts like pride or even nationalism will lead us down the wrong road. To awaken the true spirit of Sanatan Dharma at all levels and all strata's of the society is the key. Too long has it been confined to the rarefied releams of the himalayan ascetic. Had all hindu's had a common prayer based on vedas which people recieted together in temples, just like mohamaddans do, our society would have never suffered. Had the modern hindutva movement based their sangha on eternal spirituality of this nation and not on emotional nationalism, their demise wouldn't have been so easy. So way forward is dharma, common for all at the basic level. Let all hindu's have the right and motivation to sing some common hynms everyday together (beyond which we all have our own paths), and the change will be instantenious, the power generated will be awesome - the asuras will have no where to hide!!!

Hari Om

[Namo Narayana]

I agree that Indians do need to raise their morale about their country, mainly because they’ve been under various foreign occupations for more than 1,200years and the last lot, the British, put the final nail in the coffin by telling the Indians that their Vedic scripture wasn’t composed by them, but by some mythical Europeans who invaded around 1,200 BC, despite there being no evidence for such an invasion.

However, I’m not sure ‘being proud’ of your country is a very good idea for those on the path of sanathana dharma, not least because we believe in reincarnation, so how can we claim any country as our own? You are born an Indian in this lifetime – but in the last, you could have been from another country, and the one before that, another. I'm born in the UK this lifetime, but I could (and probably was!) and Indian in the last, so which country should I be proud of?

Secondly, pride is one of the tools that the ego uses to keep us trapped and apart from God consciousness. So it is better, imho, if we are going to have pride in anything, to just have pride in God, then at least any base egotistical feelings will be transformed into something better.

I believe that we should try to take a more universal attitude and see God everywhere, not just in one country. True, India has had its fair share of avatars, but there are many other countries that have had incredible spiritual teachers in the past, many of whom were persecuted, tortured and killed for trying to educate people into spiritual practices.

Gill, I understand what you mean. I believe in the word never be proud of it. This is pride we are talking about is purely from an Indian in India perspective. An analogy would be like a man who becomes weaker when the glucose content in his blood is reduced. It is nothing wrong in injecting a few doses of glucose to energise him. But sustaining which can make him diabetic.

A Hindu in india is in a very pathetic state of mind. His morale has been consstantly attacked and bombarded by christian missionaries, so called secular leaders, muslims and the not to mention the fake media. you would only feel that if you lived and observed it in India. Indians in India may not know what true India is. When I came out of the country I began to realise how better India is compared to many countries in the World. Ofcourse I wouldn't deny its problems.

The Bharatiya is not to differentiate hindus in india and other hindus in other parts of the world. this is just an injection for the downtrodden mind. It is not radicalisation of the hindu society.

For your question regarding being born in UK and India in different births, indeed is a great question . In my experience of hearing stories from people who read nadi josiam from Vaideeswaran temple which tells about all your births, I have seen that Indians were born in India in previous birth too. I could be wrong. But again to determine what you should be proud of will remain depending on your logical thinking and faith alone.

if you embrace a philosophy born out of India then you belong to there. Inspite of Hindus being so tolerant for centuries we are still being bombarded left , right and centre inside the country as well as outside. I think if we felt proud of our country it is only a knee jerk reaction to elements trying to disintegrate our resolve.

Again you should see it from an Indian in India's perspective.

[Gill Harley]

A Hindu in india is in a very pathetic state of mind. His morale has been consstantly attacked and bombarded by christian missionaries, so called secular leaders, muslims and the not to mention the fake media. you would only feel that if you lived and observed it in India.

Again you should see it from an Indian in India's perspective.

I have spent a lot of time in India, Namo Naryana, and so I speak from practical experience. I have an Indian guru and spend time in his ashram. I've also travelled around all of southern India.

What I found so heartbreaking was that I was (often) more Hindu than the Indians that I met. One day, when I was lying at the feet of the enormous black granite Vishnu that lies in the Shore Temple at Mahibalipuram, and crying and praying with devotion, some Indian tourists came along and started clowning around and taking photographs. Then they picked up their small son and placed him on the belly of Vishnu, and again starting laughing and taking pictures. I was shocked at such at attitude and I'm afraid, I told them so in no uncertain terms.

I have also spent the last few years putting the "no Aryan invasion" argument to many Western historians and archaeologists. This is important because the Aryan invasion is the basis upon which the Vedas, which is the spiritual heart of the Indian people, has been taken away from them. It also means that it's been dated wrongly - and this is important because it completely screws up religious history.

So I do understand what you're talking about. But I still believe a universal approach is best. People are not going to want to become Hindus, because they don't understand what it means. But they do want God. And God is for all nations.

[Gill Harley]

Namaste Gill,

What Sanskrit term is used in the Puranas for “Antarctica” ?

I'm sorry Sarabhanga. I don't know the Sankskrit term for Antarctica. I can tell you that it was named by relatively recent explorers and it means "opposite to the Arctic", but that doesn't really help much, does it?

[satay]

But I still believe a universal approach is best. People are not going to want to become Hindus, because they don't understand what it means. But they do want God. And God is for all nations.

namaste gill,

thank you for the wonderful posts. I just wanted to say that I love what you are saying here, specifically, the part that I quoted.

Clearly there are two issues here: One is that of being an "Indian" and the other of being a "Hindu". For most Indian Hindus the line that separates the two is drawn in the sand. Unfortunately for me, this line gets blurred very often and I have to pull back and try to have a bird's eye view instead of being at the ground level.

You have observed a phenomenon in India that is pathetic. It clearly points to the state in which Indians are in.

I agree with Namo Narayana that it is not until you get out of India that you realize what a great country it is but for me it was not until recently that I realized how great Sanatana Dharma is. For me what makes India great is that it produced so many great geniuses in the field of spirituality.

While India is a piece of land, Sanatana Dharma is for the universe.

If I can make that distinction and draw the line what you are saying makes perfect sense.

satay

[Namo Narayana]

I have spent a lot of time in India, Namo Naryana, and so I speak from practical experience. I have an Indian guru and spend time in his ashram. I've also travelled around all of southern India.

What I found so heartbreaking was that I was (often) more Hindu than the Indians that I met. One day, when I was lying at the feet of the enormous black granite Vishnu that lies in the Shore Temple at Mahibalipuram, and crying and praying with devotion, some Indian tourists came along and started clowning around and taking photographs. Then they picked up their small son and placed him on the belly of Vishnu, and again starting laughing and taking pictures. I was shocked at such at attitude and I'm afraid, I told them so in no uncertain terms.

I have also spent the last few years putting the "no Aryan invasion" argument to many Western historians and archaeologists. This is important because the Aryan invasion is the basis upon which the Vedas, which is the spiritual heart of the Indian people, has been taken away from them. It also means that it's been dated wrongly - and this is important because it completely screws up religious history.

So I do understand what you're talking about. But I still believe a universal approach is best. People are not going to want to become Hindus, because they don't understand what it means. But they do want God. And God is for all nations.

Gill, I apologize for the rude behaviour of the people. You and fellow western travellers are purely seen as a tourist alone. Your prayer may be just viewed as a curious tourists taking a closer look at the architecture ( I could be wrong ). See this itself is a good example why people lost their respect for Dharma iconography. Respect for a fellow human being worshipping a hindu deity. This is what need to be mended. That is my whole point. But again people like you who did a lot of research before accepting Hinduism. Most westerners come to dharma that way and are well informed about the religion. Where as an average Hindu in India is a hindu because he was born in a hindu family. He grows up amidst atheists , i should say pseudo atheists and pseudo seculars who constantly ram his thinking with material that degrades hinduism. so he doesnt take time to really do the thinking that his belief is being mutilated. once he gets out of the system and comes to a world like west where he is no more bombarded and meets like minded people in forum , he evolves and recuperates. I would say after the advent of BJP lot of people including my friends in India have realised they are prominent. But Hindutva or Bharatiya includes people who are not just hindus but anyone who is patriotic. I think this can be only understood if one grew in the system.

This pride feeling is nothing but to re-ignite the spirit.

Lastly Mahabalipuram is more like a tourist destination now. Though it is called shore temple. most go there for picnic. If you want to pray I suggest you visit Parthasarathy temple of Kapaleeswara temple incase you are around in chennai. There may be also one billion temples in chennai alone every stone throw away distance. I am sure people there would be warm and make you feel welcomed.

[Gill Harley]

Thank you so much, Namo Narayana, for your helpful reply.

I shall certainly take your advice about temples in future!

By the way, can somebody tell me why I have an Indian flag under my name? I don't object...far from it! But I am just wondering....

Also, while we're on the subject, I'm also wondering why I have a reputation of 12 of what that means......

Sorry to have so many questions.

[Eternal Law]

By the way, can somebody tell me why I have an Indian flag under my name? I don't object...far from it! But I am just wondering....

Also, while we're on the subject, I'm also wondering why I have a reputation of 12 of what that means......

Indian Flag - Because you selected India as your country in profile.
Reputaion of 12 - somebody here is impressed with your post and increased your repo. To know that person , go to User CP.

[Gill Harley]

Thank you, that all makes perfect sense now, and I've fixed the flag bit.