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Thread: Darkness of knowledge?

  1. #41

    Re: Darkness of knowledge?

    Namaste yajvanji

    I agree that the 'one' referenced in this verse is not fully established in shuddha sattva , but in a mixture with more of sattva (predominant).

    The verse seems to say one who "worships vidyA" or misuses the [just acquired ?] knowledge for sva-pratishThA , false-honor, or lets pride get in, is in darkness. i.e. the stage of total abandonment is not reached because they are hanging on to the ego although they "have" the knowledge towards total abandonment. In MarAThi there is a phrase in this context : "kaLta pan vaLat nahi" "I understand but cannot implement"


    Purport to Isha Up. verses 9,10,11 by Swami Paramananda
    Those who follow or "worship" the path of selfishness and pleasure (avidyA) without knowing anything higher, necessarily falls into darkness;
    but those who worship or cherish VidyA (knowledge) for mere intellectual pride and satisfaction, fall into greater darkness, because the opportunity which they missed is greater.
    In the subsequent verses (10,11) vidyA and avidyA are used in the same sense as faith and [nishkAm] karma. Neither alone can lead to the ultimate goal, but when taken together they carry one to the Highest. Work done with unselfish motive purifies the mind enables man to perceive his underlying nature.
    REF: Isha verse 9 above - being discussed
    Isha 10: By vidyA one end is attainedl by avidyA another. Thus we have heard the wise men speak...
    Isha 11: He who knows at the same time both vidyA and avidyA crosses over death by avidyA and attains immortality through vidyA.


    praNAm
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  2. #42

    Re: Darkness of knowledge?

    Namaste All (is it correct to say janatA or viz?)

    Thank you for wisdom, already posted in this fascinating yet difficult thread.

    I do not have a copy of this beautiful script in Sanskrit, my faith is in Eknath Easwaran's interpretation, which I have at home. I have come to notice a certain shade to his imagery, yet I find his interpretations pleasing.

    Is this not a reference to the non dualist state of all. If one is in either extreme, when the universe moves the concentration required to maintain ones posture of black or white, will cause blindness, we will be so concentrated on staying put that we won't see the world move.

    I also find this directs my thought toward the manipura cAkra, its function in our interaction with the out side world. Turned too far inwards this lotus will receive no light; we become depressed. When open outwards; if the heart is not well balanced this may become either an anchor or chain; I have friends who tire them selves relentlessly, to the point of physical sickness; driven by the angst of this cAkra, and the thought that it will induce in them should they stop acting, even more blinded than the first example. In fact these cases may often cause the closure of this lotus in others the draining consuming of their prANa. There are other visible emotional actions relating to this function.

    A fine balance of these energy's; prANa, can lead to a greater ease in ones consumption of time, ones Journey.


    In dark night live those for whom the lord is transcendent only...

    The factor of time here to my mind is important... whilst living in a Godless time; To realise god and yet not take action for a better commune.

    In darker night still, For whom he is immanent only.

    It is darker still for those who hold God only as a mental concept or ideal (idol) without having realised or seen him/her/That as a presence and path.

    These two types of devotion in times of darkness join to cross the river together.

    To my mind this is a concept depicted also by Ida and Pingala. As such, derived from their root.
    Within modern science this is depicted by left or right predominance of thought, and use of brain function. (This can even be related to political thought)
    It can apply to a couple in matrimony, to sadguru and ziSya, King Queens advisor's and army's; friends. In true darkness live those to whom the only light might come from war fair; It is in these times that Kings and avatAra manifest by the collective SELF. It is the hour that defines men and women.

    All different shades of grey, yet the same humanity and cognition.

    For me this verse speaks of extremes and their balance.

    On many different levels; meditation on the times of change from Darkness to light, and from Light to darkness, is surly revealing.

    I hope you don't feel my interpretation rash, and I look forwards to hearing your thoughts on this. I humbly welcome any suggestion you might have as to other interprets to better aid my understanding.


    praNAma

    mana
    Last edited by Mana; 21 October 2011 at 03:30 AM.

  3. #43
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    Re: Darkness of knowledge?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    Namaste yajvanji

    The verse seems to say one who "worships vidyA" or misuses the [just acquired ?] knowledge for sva-pratishThA , false-honor, or lets pride get in, is in darkness. i.e. the stage of total abandonment is not reached because they are hanging on to the ego although they "have" the knowledge towards total abandonment. In MarAThi there is a phrase in this context : "kaLta pan vaLat nahi" "I understand but cannot implement"
    ' I am delighted on being the jñānin' ; as long as one enjoys vidyā, one's level of ahaṁkāra ( the doer ship of 'I' or personal ego) predominates. This distances one from the real spirit of wisdom... this idea is under the authorship of svāmī muni nārāyaṇa prāsad and parallels nicely to what you have written.

    Yet this IMHO is a path one finds themselves on ie. the infusion of wisdom over time. Yet at some point we remove the thorn with another thorn and this desire for knowledge is that tool that removes this ignoranace. I have found this to be true i.e. humility follows.

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #44

    Re: Darkness of knowledge?

    Namaste

    I had not seen this post.
    Thanks for the subtle points. "I am delighted on being a jnani" is darkness.

    How about "ParaBrahman is so beautiful" ?

    As long as one internally delights in the parabrahman paramAtmA parameshwar and can externally glorify Him, I do not see any individual darkness in that.

    praNAm
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  5. #45

    Re: Darkness of knowledge?

    Namaste smaranam,

    I think that you are quite right, darkness is the lack of light in the material world; light comes also from within. As such it can be found.

    However if there is no guide or help, no teaching; no empathetic ears...

    So much more light is needed in cold empty space than in a warm environment, in a collective light. In a cold competitive world, many are burntout; transcending the darkness.

    praNAma

    mana

  6. #46

    Re: Darkness of knowledge?

    Namaste Mana

    That is true, "light comes from within" because ParamAtmA is within

    "if no guide or help" - you are talking about Guru. But if not, at least sAdhu sang in the meanwhile - association of sAdhus, devotees of the One within.

    "more light needed in a cold environment" because the cold env. lacks sAdhu-sang, warm env is warm due to the Lord and His devotees. Association of Lord if not directly, then through a pure devotee, opens the heart buried deep in the material.

    Last statement - I suppose you mean "they get burned out in the process of trying to transcend the darkness" Yes, that can happen without the proper association, sanga.

    1. Lord Himself
    2. Lord's representatives, devotees, disciples of representative
    3. Books - words from Him or His representatives.

    All these are 'sanga' to keep one on track.

    praNAm
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

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