Speaking of Speech...

[upsydownyupsy mv ss]

Yajvanji, Namaskar.....

I have to confess something here. I hope I'm not wasting you're time. I think you may already know some things mentioned below. I took Samskrutham in my 8th standard, when I was given a choice to take a language, because I always wanted to know the vedas. But haven't got the ability to even make a proper sentence in samkrutham, till now. I can't even say, "My name is ......" in samskrutham. Recently, about 2 years ago, I came to know that even if 1 knew the language, that would not be enough to understand the scriptures. I was rather disappointed for that moment. After a few days, my father brought a few cds and dvds authored by Bananje Govindacharya. Even though by birth and by choice, I follow advaitha, his dvaitha philosophies have fascinated me. In one of his cds he explains the above that one would not be able to understand the texts with the language alone. In other or same cd he also explained that every name in the universe, every sound, every shabda, especially those in vedas refer to God. I even came to know that to be true from the Mantra Pushpam. In another context he explained the name Gopala. He referred to 'go' or cow from the name and explained that 'go' and other times 'pashu' actually meant vedas or knowledge and pala to be caretaker or owner or even father or even embodiment. Gopala thus is the synonym of Vedathma, Vedaguru, Guru, Brah_ma, etc. I'm a devotee of Shiva, spontaneously, I don't know how, the word 'Pashupathi' flashed in my brain. I could derieve about 10 meanings in 2 seconds for that name, Pahupathi is actually another synonym of Gopala, Pashu, meaning Vedas again, and Pathi giving the meaning of the latter half. Pashupathi also means the remover of ignorance, isn't that Nataraja? Manah sometimes behaves like a Pashu or animal, who controls our thoughts, who controls this pashu(thought), isn't it God. After that Manjunatha flashed before my eyes as soon as I came to know the meaning of 'Nara'(amrutha or moksha) in Narayana. Manju in manjunatha actually refers to that ice that cools us from the fire of ignorance of Maya. It also refers to God as, 'Person(not literally) who removes the ignorance' and also 'Person(not literally) who carries us from this domain to the domain of Moksham'. I could recently tell the meaning of Bhoothanatha. All of this has still surprised me. I, a boy who can't even make a sentence in Samkrutham is getting the inner meanings of Samskrutha Shabda sagara. How could this have been possible? I have no explanation, I'm not a scholar, I'm an ignoramus, I'm a person surrounded by ego, jealousy, tamas and rajas, I've not even gone through the scriptures, I don't know the Geeta, Puranas, Vedas, Itihasas. I don't even know what I know ! Probably all I know is nothing. You are 100% correct Yajvanji when you said, Vedic Sanskrith is different from the usual one. I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT ONE.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~


namasté UDU mv,

Yajvanji, Namaskar.....

I have to confess something here. I hope I'm not wasting you're time. I think you may already know some things mentioned below. I took Samskrutham in my 8th standard, when I was given a choice to take a language, because I always wanted to know the vedas. But haven't got the ability to even make a proper sentence in samkrutham, till now. I can't even say, "My name is ......" in samskrutham. Recently, about 2 years ago, I came to know that even if 1 knew the language, that would not be enough to understand the scriptures. I was rather disappointed for that moment. After a few days, my father brought a few cds and dvds authored by Bananje Govindacharya. Even though by birth and by choice, I follow advaitha, his dvaitha philosophies have fascinated me. In one of his cds he explains the above that one would not be able to understand the texts with the language alone. In other or same cd he also explained that every name in the universe, every sound, every shabda, especially those in vedas refer to God. I even came to know that to be true from the Mantra Pushpam. In another context he explained the name Gopala. He referred to 'go' or cow from the name and explained that 'go' and other times 'pashu' actually meant vedas or knowledge and pala to be caretaker or owner or even father or even embodiment. Gopala thus is the synonym of Vedathma, Vedaguru, Guru, Brah_ma, etc. I'm a devotee of Shiva, spontaneously, I don't know how, the word 'Pashupathi' flashed in my brain. I could derieve about 10 meanings in 2 seconds for that name, Pahupathi is actually another synonym of Gopala, Pashu, meaning Vedas again, and Pathi giving the meaning of the latter half. Pashupathi also means the remover of ignorance, isn't that Nataraja? Manah sometimes behaves like a Pashu or animal, who controls our thoughts, who controls this pashu(thought), isn't it God. After that Manjunatha flashed before my eyes as soon as I came to know the meaning of 'Nara'(amrutha or moksha) in Narayana. Manju in manjunatha actually refers to that ice that cools us from the fire of ignorance of Maya. It also refers to God as, 'Person(not literally) who removes the ignorance' and also 'Person(not literally) who carries us from this domain to the domain of Moksham'. I could recently tell the meaning of Bhoothanatha. All of this has still surprised me. I, a boy who can't even make a sentence in Samkrutham is getting the inner meanings of Samskrutha Shabda sagara. How could this have been possible? I have no explanation, I'm not a scholar, I'm an ignoramus, I'm a person surrounded by ego, jealousy, tamas and rajas, I've not even gone through the scriptures, I don't know the Geeta, Puranas, Vedas, Itihasas. I don't even know what I know ! Probably all I know is nothing. You are 100% correct Yajvanji when you said, Vedic Sanskrith is different from the usual one. I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT ONE.

There is much to learn and study in saṃskṛt (saṃskṛtam) of this there is no doubt.

You mention the following:

I came to know that even if 1 knew the language, that would not be enough to understand the scriptures

Yes I see your point and I think the ṛg ved can give us an insight. Let me offer it here and make a few observations:

ṛg ved, 1.164.39
　
ṛco akṣare parame vyoman yasmin devā adhi viśve niṣeduḥ |
yastan na veda kiṃ ṛcā kariṣyati ya it tad vidusta ime samāsate ||

That is,
The veda or ṛks, reside in the transcendental field or akṣara the imperishable, undecaying , of the highest (parame) ethereal Being (vyoman) in which reside all the adhi vishve deva's (or impulses of creative intelligence, the laws of Nature), responsible for the whole manifest universe. He whose awareness is not open (na veda) to this field, what can the verses accomplish for him? Those who know this level of reality are established in evenness (samāsate or rest contented) , in That ( Tat or Bhuma, fullness-wholeness of life).

What does this say in short? Of what use is the ved, for he whom is not becoming established in brahman? Where will be the value of this great knowledge other then words... become established in ātman ( some may say parātman) , the avyayam (undecaying), the even-ness is the secret to reap the full value of the knowledge.

So my take-away from this wisdom is study without actual practice of unfolding brahman within one's self is fuitless. The study will not be complimented (stabilized) with the experience of what the śāstra-s have to offer. The śāstra-s are there to bring the knowledge & experience of brahman to one's existence while on this good earth.

The question is what does one do in the interim time if you wish to study the śāstra-s and the wisdom therein? For me, I stand on the shoulders of the wise. Those that have the knowledge and experience of brahman. Insights come , learning comes to those that are attentive. Yet the greatest quality IMHO is to have patience and persistence in one's studies.

praṇām

[upsydownyupsy mv ss]

What is the expansion of IMHO? I don't know.

You are absolutely right about the 'establishment(Devotion and Dharma -here righteousness) in Brahman' part. My heart says even the innocent animals devoid of Jnana and Karma sadhana have attained Moksha. Establishment of one's self in Tat Purusha is really most essential, as I have realized and is independent of both Karma and Jnana, I've learnt he is even beyond knowledge as both get disintegrated just by our presence in him, just as everything in space, even stars get sucked into the black hole leaving no remnants.

I've also realized that everything has already been written or something like that, because, everything is the manifestation of god and everyone will definitely get Moksha. After all, the desires and feelings we get and the buddhi we have, are all his 'Prachodanas' (I'm not getting the english word for it).

I'd like to mention that at this moment, I feel very lucky to meet many here who have such deep insights.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

back to speaking of speech...


There are very interesting points-of-view on this matter - that of speech production. The question (debate) : are speech sounds (śabda&#185 created (utpanna&#185 or brought into manifest existence (abhivyakta) ?
Hence these views suggest is speech transient ( anitya) ? or is it nitya¹, with no beginning or end?

Also there is a distinction in sounds - those that are not speech-sounds ( a conch shell as a horn, the blowing of the wind within cave, etc) and those that are voiced.

If the sound already exists in vyoman ( space ) then a 'push' is needed to make it manifest. The other view to this is no, this sound is
not waiting in the wings, waiting for its upliftment into the field of action, but is must be created and comes into existence due to
a cause. There is the cause that creates , and there is destruction of this sound, as it is not a permanent entity.

I find this interesting as this is what some of the greatest minds of phonetics and etymology thought of - the origin of sound.
I can see the implications as it spills into the mantra's of the ved, meditative mantras, truth in speech (tattvārtha), the power of speech, its origin and use, etc.

praṇām
words

• śabda - sound , noise , voice , tone , note ; (śabdaṃ rooted (√) in kṛ , to utter a sound , raise the voice
• utpanna - arisen , born , produced
• abhivyakta - manifest , evident , distinct
• nitya continual , perpetual , eternal