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Thread: Secularism is poison

  1. #11
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    What to say of this nation that has a Sikh Prime Minister (backed by an Italian christian!), a Muslim President and hindus in the opposition party?
    Satay, you left onething backed by an italian christian with lot of backboneless MPs ......

    I think it is like a brainwash saying " hey you know what , you hindus are so tolerant, so secular, so and so BS " and reduce hindus minority in India.

    DeviSarada, India is always land of hindus, buddhists, jains, sikhs no doubt about it. there are also zoraostrians and jews who never caused trouble. they added only glamour and shine. where as christians converted and islamists converted thru war.... they will be hardly welcome in Bharatam
    Last edited by Namo Narayana; 29 March 2006 at 02:17 PM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Namo Narayana
    Satay, you left onething backed by an italian christian with lot of backboneless MPs ......

    I think it is like a brainwash saying " hey you know what , you hindus are so tolerant, so secular, so and so BS " and reduce hindus minority in India.

    DeviSarada, India is always land of hindus, buddhists, jains, sikhs no doubt about it. there are also zoraostrians and jews who never caused trouble. they added only glamour and shine. where as christians converted and islamists converted thru war.... they will be hardly welcome in Bharatam
    Everyone including the hindus forget that 'denouncing intolerance is not intolerance!' and in fact, putting up with intolerance is cowardice!

    satay

  3. #13
    Namaste all,

    interesting discussion.

    i suppose that i would have to conclude that my view is very different than what has been espoused thus far for i am in favor of a secular society

    what i mean by this is that, in my view, a society which contains a broad mix of beings and religious views is more well served by a government which does not promote or endorse a particular religious view point than by a government which promotes one religous view as the "official" view.

    any ideology held too strongly can warp the natural goodness which humans exhibit, in my opinion, especially when displays of ones religious conviction results in harm to another.

    quite frankly, in my opinion, what is killing society isn't secularism, it is cronyism and favoritism coupled with a righteous zeal which renders the critical mental faculties inoperative and undercuts any sense of human compassion.

    metta,

    ~v
    Meditation brings Wisdom, lack of meditation leaves ignorance. Know well what leads you forward and what holds you back.

    ~Buddha Shakyamuni

    *******************************

    I have gained this from philosophy:

    That i do, without being commanded, what others do only through fear of Law.

    ~Aristotle

  4. #14
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    Vajra, I would be called unsecular if I did not let a zoroaster or a jew to live in peace. I wouldnt be called unsecular if I check the religious crime and social crime of an evangelist say christian and muslim. as simple as that.

    if you recognise Santa dharma, buddha dharma, jain, sikh as different religion. I can very well convince that India is supremely secular not to mention zoraostrians and jews. makes sense ?

  5. #15
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    It might not be as bad as you make it out. What is the alternative to a secular state? Fighting berween religions and open warfare?

    In a society where things are open and several religions exist at the same time an interesting thing happens. They all change some and adopt some of the others ideas. And from this blending something different come about. The only ones that don't like this are the diehard fundamentalists and those who think they are the only path.

    In this modern world it is not possible to not have a secular situation, peopke have learned from the past what the other way did to those in the past.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by willie
    It might not be as bad as you make it out. What is the alternative to a secular state? Fighting berween religions and open warfare?

    In a society where things are open and several religions exist at the same time an interesting thing happens. They all change some and adopt some of the others ideas. And from this blending something different come about. The only ones that don't like this are the diehard fundamentalists and those who think they are the only path.

    In this modern world it is not possible to not have a secular situation, peopke have learned from the past what the other way did to those in the past.
    Let me assure you the weaker will change and adopt the other ideas. Secularism works well in west for variety of reasons and probably for the best. For if west again turns politically christian again they will go back 500 years into place where they were worse than current day muslims.
    In India where barbarians have rulled us for a thousand years and we have lost the essence of our own dharma. In India secularism does no good to our culture and self-respect and has become a tool of the oppressors of hindu-dharma. Indian hindus my friend suffers collectively from stockholm syndrome. Secularism makes no sense here, but it will make no sense anywhere where there is an dharmic alternative. If west was buddhist, secularism should be flushed down the drain.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Vajradhara
    Namaste all,

    interesting discussion.

    i suppose that i would have to conclude that my view is very different than what has been espoused thus far for i am in favor of a secular society

    what i mean by this is that, in my view, a society which contains a broad mix of beings and religious views is more well served by a government which does not promote or endorse a particular religious view point than by a government which promotes one religous view as the "official" view.

    any ideology held too strongly can warp the natural goodness which humans exhibit, in my opinion, especially when displays of ones religious conviction results in harm to another.

    quite frankly, in my opinion, what is killing society isn't secularism, it is cronyism and favoritism coupled with a righteous zeal which renders the critical mental faculties inoperative and undercuts any sense of human compassion.

    metta,

    ~v
    Dear buddhist friend,

    I understand from your standpoint talk here may sound quite intolerant!
    I respect your viewpoint. I can't argue for you. You dharma is upto you.

    For hindu's the case is different. Our dharma stresses on what is dharmic-duty far above ahimsa or peace or metta. Depending on the context our duty can be extremely violent to extremely non-violent. Going through gita as is will make things clear for you. And what is dharmic duty? , you may ask. In one word, if it can be said in one word, it is called "asura nidhan" - slaying the asuras. To know what / who are asuras you need to study the "dev-asur sampad bibhag yog" in Gita. In other words fight what is just or true (satya). Talking other's life or loosing one's own is of no importance in this dharmic war. Such rules apply to selfish work aimed at personal benefit. Sri Krishna inspired Arjuna to slay his own people, simply because that was justice. All our avatras are called avatars (including buddha who removed the dominance of the priestly class) because their work is directly related to asur nidhan (may not be physical slaying in all cases).

    So not tolerating Islamicists or evangelists is the dharma for a hindu - far above ahimsa, because they display all characteristics of asurik development. Islam is clinic book.

    In this post I have made it more clear http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...?p=575#post575
    Last edited by Singhi Kaya; 03 April 2006 at 01:44 PM.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Eternal Law
    Yes i agree but there is very big difference between RSS and Shivsena mentality.

    The RSS and the VHP are well-oiled think-tanks, and they have a sophisticated, well-organized machinery reaching right down to the village level and that's what Hindus need today. They are the biggest resistance to Christian aggression in India. Afterall, RSS is biggest organization of it's kind anywhere in this world and now have organizations in many countries which are working under it's recognisation.
    Ahm...RSS is hardly any blocade to any aggreation whatsoever. They are not rooted in dharma after BJP came to power has been corrupted to root. I don't say this out my mind - I have some real experience with the organisation.

    Stopping christian missionaries from converting - largely individual effort of few men here and there who for lack of any other organisation are loosely affiliated to the sangha. Soon they take some step dangerous, sangha will disown them.

    I have no special contempt for that organisation, but I know people who have destroyed thier youth to do something for the country to find out the path goes nowhere. This hindutva movement wasted a not-so-trivial hindu uprising by not being rooted in dharma. Big tasks cannot be sustained by emotion and spirit of nationalism.

    Just my 2 pence.

  9. #19
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    Strange that even in roman times the romans has a somewhat secular empire. So going backwards to that time would give us the same thing that exists now.
    Strange I have not heard this sort of talk before, I have heard a lot of hindu ideas that have been expressed by christian and others. Living in an area where there are hindus, christians, moslems, bahais and a handful of other religions. All existing together with no conflict. Only the socalled leaders of these groups worry about people comming together and putting them out of a job.

  10. #20
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    Willie, India has been secular for many centuries. but we are against only christian missionaries who convert and islamists who use terror.

    dont blindly trust anyone. if you want to know how weak muslims are , visit this site to find out more about moslem faith.

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