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Thread: Spending time with agni

  1. #11
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    Re: Spending time with agni

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Jātavedas (jātaveda) knows (veda) all, every , every one (viśvā) birth/production (jani) + (mā).
    Now if one were of a thinking mind, this statement has far reaching implications. Jātavedas knows every birth, every production. If we limit ourselves, then one ends up thinking, He knows every birth.
    But if one opens up the possibilities, we have an extensive range for the notion of 'birth'.
    • the birth of all human beings and any/all beings on this earth or above or below it.
    • the birth of any seedling that becomes a plant or flora.
    • the birth of a thought
    • the birth of an idea
    • the birth of an action
    • etc.
    These are just a few ideas of the far reaching comprehension of what jātavedas knows and may wish to perceive.



    iti śivaṁ
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #12

    Re: Spending time with agni

    praNAm Yajvanji
    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    IN the ṛg ved (6.15.13) it says ,
    aghnirhotā ghṛhapatiḥ sa rājā viśvā veda janimā jātavedaḥ|
    devānāmuta yo martyānāṃ yajiṣṭhaḥ sa pra yajatāṃ ṛtāvā || 13
    Jātavedas (jātaveda) knows (veda) all, every , every one (viśvā) birth/production (jani) + (mā).

    the ṛg ved (3.29.2):
    araṇyornihito jātavedā garbha iva sudhito gharbhiṇīṣu |
    dive-diva īḍyo jāghṛvadbhirhaviṣmadbhirmanuṣyebhiraghniḥ || 2
    This says in general,
    jātavedas is deposited in two (fire) sticks ; (he) lies within the within the womb (garbha) of pregnant women.

    We find this in the śatapatha brāhamaṇa : tad yat jātaṃ jātaṃ vindate tasmāt jātavedaḥ
    That which obtains every born being and produced substance is jātavedas
    So basically this jAtaveda agni is [not only] the knower of anything that manifests, is the "spirit" (cause) behind the birth i.e. manifestation (for it to occur),
    but also the final devourer, absorber, the END of all that is born and produced (manifest).

    This means jAtaveda-agni is [a form of] Bramhan.

    Interesting, that AvAhan (request to appear) is made to jAtaveda in Shri-sUkta and it appears in this sukta quite often. Shri-sUkta is otherwise a praise of Shri (of course with ample knowledge about Her tattva in us).

    Perhaps you may have some insight to offer about why that is
    i.e. The connection of the golden (suvarNa-varNa) Shri (that accompanies NArAyaNa) and Agni. (Shri is praised here as both "golden" (pure) and "Lotus-complexioned")

    om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya _/\_
    Last edited by smaranam; 27 August 2013 at 09:34 AM. Reason: jAtaveda-agni is Bramhan
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  3. #13
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    Re: Spending time with agni

    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté
    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    praNAm Yajvanji
    So basically this jAtaveda agni is [not only] the knower of anything that manifests, is the "spirit" (cause) behind the birth i.e. manifestation (for it to occur),
    It is quite interesting that agni ( dhūmaketu - having smoke as His banner) is called as being the youngest (yaviṣṭhya¹) but also the ṛṣi of the following śloka calls him as the father:

    ṛg ved (1.69.1)
    śukraḥ śuśukvānuṣo na jāraḥ paprā samīcī divo najyotiḥ |
    pari prajātaḥ kratvā babhūtha bhuvo devānāṃ pitā putra san ||
    You are the father & mother (pitā = pitṛ = parents) of the devā-s (devānāṃ) yet their son (putra= son, also child)


    iti śivaṁ
     
    1. yaviṣṭhya - youngest
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #14
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    Re: Spending time with agni

    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    It is quite interesting that agni ( dhūmaketu - having smoke as His banner) is called as being the youngest (yaviṣṭhya¹) but also the ṛṣi of the following śloka calls him as the father:

    ṛg ved (1.69.1)
    śukraḥ śuśukvānuṣo na jāraḥ paprā samīcī divo najyotiḥ |
    pari prajātaḥ kratvā babhūtha bhuvo devānāṃ pitā putra san ||
    You are the father & mother (pitā = pitṛ = parents) of the devā-s (devānāṃ) yet their son (putra= son, also child)
    Now how can we agni as the youngest ? It seems to me that each time
    a fire begins, he then is born again ( and again) - he is the newest/youngest born.

    iti śivaṁ
     
    1. yaviṣṭhya - youngest
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #15
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    Re: Spending time with agni

    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    If we notice we will see that the comprehension of agni comes on 3 levels: 
    • abhidhā or the conventional meaning i.e. the literal meaning
    • lakṣaṇā or indirectly via sign, symbol, inference.
    • vyañjanā or the figurative expression more intuitively offered some may call implied indication , yet is on a higher level of meaning.
    This is more formally called out as:
    • ādhiyājñika - relating or belonging to sacrifice , sacrificial or yājña
    • ādhidaivika - proceeding from the deva-s ;that is, natural phenomenon and the universe that surrounds us
    • ādhyātmika - relating to the Supreme ; from . adhy-ātma , relating to Self or ātman
    Now who says this ? Our ācārya yāska¹ is his work niruka. There are other sources for this also i.e. brāmaṇa āraṇyaka and śatapatha (100 paths) brāmaṇa; some too try and tease-out this 3-fold view in the chandogya upaniṣad (3.18.2) but this takes a bit more work to come to the conclusion of the 3 mentioned above.
     
    So why am I mentioning this when it comes to agni ? Because He can be addressed/viewed on 3 levels:
    Within the sacrifice (ādhiyājñika) He is the fire, let alone delivers the offerings to the devatā-s , He is the hotravāham. We are told He is aratim (servant) bearer of these offerings, suggesting He selflessly serves the devatā . The word used in the ṛg ved is dūtamaratiṃ¹

    We will look at the remaining two in the next post.

    iti śivaṁ
    words 
    • Yāska, an early ācārya (circa 2000 BCE), was one of the earliest saṁskṛt (sanskrit) grammarians or etymologist. He mentions several interpretations of the ṛg veda itself - that of naiyāyika (logic), itihāsika (or history some call mythological in its most noble sense), yājñika (rituals), ādibhuta (natual powers) and ādhyāyma ( spiritual and that of the Supreme).
    • hotravāham = hotra + vāham ; note the vāha is bearing , drawing , conveying ; a bearer , any vehicle , carriage , conveyance + hotra = a burnt-offering , oblation with fire . We find this in the ṛg ved 5.26.7.
    • dūtamaratiṃ is the word used in the ṛg ved 3.17.4 - dūtam + aratiṃ : dūta = a messenger , envoy , ambassador + aratiṃ is applied as disinterested. Some use the term 'discontented' , yet on upon further inspection one will find this arati's second derivation is servant, administrator, and 'moving quickly.
      • aghniṃ sudītiṃ sudṛśaṃ ghṛṇanto namasyāmastveḍyaṃ jātavedaḥ |
        tvāṃ dūtamaratiṃ havyavāhaṃ devā akṛṇvannamṛtasya nābhim || 3.17.4
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #16
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    Re: Spending time with agni

    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    ādhiyājñika - relating or belonging to sacrifice , sacrificial or yājña
    ādhidaivika - proceeding from the devā-s ; that is, natural phenomon and the universe that surrounds us
    ādhyātmika - relating to the Supreme ; from . adhy-ātma , relating to Self or ātman
    The notion of ādhidaivika is the world of creation. We see agni jātavedas within our community, in our house hold, above us in the sky, within devices. The easist and most recognizable is agni as fire. Every fire from the stove to the furnace that melts steel is agni. He is in our house as we cook , light a candle, and even within us as our body tempeture. Humans are beings of heat. This heat and fire ( of digestion) is agni.
    Fire brings light, luminance; He is the light of consciousness within us and every being we see. It is by our eyes that light is taken in, it too is a function of agni.
    The light comes from the sun - agni. Light from the stars - agni. Light from galaxies forming or exploding - agni.
    Light from lightening - agni. This agni is śukraśociṣe¹ : śukra = pure, bright , resplendent + śociṣe = śocis = shining , brilliant , splendor.
     
    The notion of ādhyātmika or relating to the Supreme has been reviewed above:
    If we look to the great seer/ṛṣi śunaḥṣepaḥ ājīgartiḥ and his hymn 1.24.1 and 1.24.2 of the ṛg ved he asks,

    1.24.1
    ' Being in doubt I ask, among the immortals (amṛta - immortal, imperishable) which deva/deity with an auspicious name shall we call? Who is that God who will restore us to the mighty aditi¹ (the Infinite, wholeness, fullness) so I may behold again the father and the mother ( i.e. spiritual parents) '

    1.24.2 śloka gives the answer:
    'Agni, the first among the immortals - his auspicious name will we utter.'

    We are told He is amṛta - immortal, imperishable i.e. amartya or divine. This word amṛta when used in the neuter gender is final emancipation , world of immortality , eternity. He is the final destination.

    He no doubt is worthy of our praise & study. It is the seers (ṛṣi-s) who properly recognize this in the very first word of the ṛg ved :
    agnimīḷe purohitaṃ yajñasya devaṃ ṛtvījam |
    hotāraṃ ratnadhātamam || 1.1.1
    agni I adore



    iti śivaṁ
    1. samidhā jātavedase devāya devahūtibhiḥ |
    havirbhiḥ śukraśocie namasvino vayaṃ dāśemāghnaye || ṛg ved 7.14.1
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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